Fanuc Alpha Series control, need help with a few cable connections

[13engines]

Yes those manuals can certainly send you down a rabbit hole. And don't think you have to read them all the way through to get your machine up and running.

Just think if you had just bought a raw Fanuc Control and had to figure out all that stuff for yourself? No wonder it takes whole companies with lots of smart people to integrate them successfully.

Anyway... OM is Series O for Mills. OT is Series O for Lathes. They have series for EDM, Grinders, Punch Presses, you name it. You have series OMC which is the third iteration of OM. I've heard of Mate but not sure where it stands. Ground level I think.

 

[solidworks4u]

13engines and Vancbiker thanks for your help. Yes, I can understand better, how complex the Fanuc system is, considering that another side of the same company does the robotic equipment.​

I have a single cable (that starts at the encoder for the spindle) this I believe is belt driven at the tool end of the spindle, protected in a metal box off to the right-hand side. The other end of the cable has the type of plug shaped like that is used in Spindle Amplifier Module "JY4 for example". The only sockets "open" on the Spindle Amplifier Module are the following: JX4, JA7A, JY3, & JY4, I have not been able to find anything about this end of the spindle encoder or where it is supposed to be attached. I will be the 1st to admit I am a much better metalworker than an electrician or even a firm handle on how to read & understand the electrical diagram. If there is a workaround or another way to approach or to figure-out, please offer your thoughts.

13engines, I see some better the way Fanuc has the "OM is Series O for Mills. OT is Series O for Lathes. They have series for EDM, Grinders, Punch Presses" and robotics.​

All suggestions warmly welcomed, I am grateful for the help, many thanks!

 

[13engines]

You have a different Spindle Amp setup then I do. My Spindle does not have an Encoder. I do not have Rigid Tapping on my machine, and my M19 Spindle Orient is of a mechanical nature. I have a plain square connection box on my Spindle and my Spindle Amp has far fewer connections then yours.

Your diagram in post #5 has everything you are asking about. If you look at it, it shows JY4. That is if the thing you're talking about is in fact a separate Pulse Coder. If it were a built in Encoder you would go to JY2. If you already have something in JY2, then that box you're talking about might be something else listed on your post 5 drawing. If your Spindle has a plug coming out of the red cap, you have a built in Encoder. If you have a connection box and no plugs you might have something else. Also if you have three connections on your spindle motor, the small one will be a brake.

I'd just make sure what is in that little box is what you think it is and go from there. Again all possible options are clearly expressed in your post 5 diagram.

Even though you already have your hands full, sometime download the OM Connection Manual (Function). One more giant rabbit hole for your exploring pleasures.

 

[Vancbiker]

You have a different Spindle Amp setup then I do. My Spindle does not have an Encoder. I do not have Rigid Tapping on my machine, and my M19 Spindle Orient is of a mechanical nature. I have a plain square connection box on my Spindle and my Spindle Amp has far fewer connections then yours.

Your diagram in post #5 has everything you are asking about. If you look at it, it shows JY4. That is if the thing you're talking about is in fact a separate Pulse Coder. If it were a built in Encoder you would go to JY2. If you already have something in JY2, then that box you're talking about might be something else listed on your post 5 drawing. If your Spindle has a plug coming out of the red cap, you have a built in Encoder. If you have a connection box and no plugs you might have something else. Also if you have three connections on your spindle motor, the small one will be a brake.

I'd just make sure what is in that little box is what you think it is and go from there. Again all possible options are clearly expressed in your post 5 diagram.

The spindle motor will just have a junction box. Inside will be a terminal block for the motor power and ground. There will also be a rectangular connector. This is the internal pulse generator and motor over heat connections. It should connect to the drive at JY2. If there is an external encoder, it is for rigid tapping and its cable should connect to JY4 just as 13 said.

 

[solidworks4u]

13engines, thank you! The "position coder" I was thinking "Z" position up/down and that was not the thing I was looking for, I see exactly what you say. Thanks!​

I did d/l the 633 pages of the FANUC Series 0 / 00 / 0-Mate CONNECTION MANUAL, but have not read it all.

​

Vancbiker, thank thank you!! The component I saw looks like a small electric motor. See attached pic. The spindle area is built to cover this coder with doors to remove. The JY4 socket is available. The cable to JY2 went to the final section of conduit going to the motor that runs the spindle. Many thanks.​

Many, many thanks!

 

[13engines]

The spindle motor will just have a junction box. Inside will be a terminal block for the motor power and ground. There will also be a rectangular connector. This is the internal pulse generator and motor over heat connections. It should connect to the drive at JY2. If there is an external encoder, it is for rigid tapping and its cable should connect to JY4 just as 13 said.

I'm glad you chimed in. I'm not terribly versed on the various ways Spindle motors are applied. I have a connection box on one machine with the power and overheat wiring and nothing else. And I just realized I was confusing my Mori with built in spindle connected like a Servo as being the Spindle. Of course the spindle had a large connection box mounted on the Z column. Idiot move. All part of knowing just enough to be slightly dangerous, and not having it all sunk in so far that any of it is 2nd nature. I have to work hard for what I think I know. (Head slap)

Solidwork's last post picture I can't follow and doesn't ring a bell for me. Cropped too tight to start with. Hope what you've shared will square him up.

 

[Vancbiker]

That last pic looks like a spindle encoder. On a 0M equipped machine usually indicates rigid tapping function is available.

@solidworks4u:
What is the content of parameter 911 on the machine?

 

[solidworks4u]

13engines and Vancbiker thanks for all the help & suggestions. Sorry about the pic, it should have been rotated so the cable connector is to the right, that makes the shinny part at the bottom, the small belt is on the other side of that shinny part. The cable is to the far side from the spindle. The spindle is rated at 5.5kw/ 7.5 kw 30 min.).​

I have not connected power to the mill, so no parameters of any kind are available. The prior owner has provided 2 files, "om options" & "tool changer". When opened I will need to edit the .txt file, before loading in mill, this is what the prior owner has suggested. The small amount I know about parameter 911 is what I have just read & bookmarked.​

I am ok with suggested reading, like this how to load, read & edit (if necessary) the parameters, need number 8 wire, for 60 amp to get power from phase converter.

 

[13engines]

I've been wondering what shape your machine is in. Inches from the scrap heap with everything disconnected does not sound good. I'm glad you seem to have gotten everything plugged in, but what do you know about the state of repair of the multitude of Fanuc and other components of your machine? There's usually a reason why people scrap out machines. One of those is too many things stop working and the cost to repair becomes to great compared to the perceived value of the machine. The fact that it appears the parameters are are gone or at least need reloading is not a great place to start either. Are these parameters you have the originals? Do you have a printout of them by chance?

I've made it my life goal to die before I ever loose parameters on any of my machines. In as such, I wouldn't even know how to begin restoring them. Short of studying up on the subject that is.

Concerning your RPC install. One thing I can help with is to say that you want to make sure your 2 single phase* wires are the ones that connect to the biggish mult-istep transformer you're likely to find on or near the floor of your Electronics or Magnetics Cabinet. The wires likely won't connect to it directly, but perhaps after a Contactor and an AC Reactor. On my Supermax, R and T connect to the transformer. S does not. Regardless of what my or even your schematic says, physically verify, ie... follow the wires through the first few components until you reach the transformer. Folks with true 3 phase don't have to bother about this, but RPC folks should take heed. Oh... and don't forget the Ground. CNC's love good Grounds.

* What I mean by your single phase wires... you're going to run two single phase (house) wires to your phase convertor and three (3 phase) can or will come out of it. That "manufactured" or "wild" leg as some like to call it, is the one that should feed motors and drives only. In all honesty, the two wires you feed the RPC with can pretty much pass right through its box. You only need to tap into them to get your RPC motor running.

Getting long in the tooth again... I hope your problems are only reconnecting and parameter restoration! All fingers crossed.

 

[solidworks4u]

13engines, thank you for all your help. You are correct in this has a lot of hours & abuse, has many areas in the "T" slot area that were cut through the part in to the table. The plan is to cut & drill a tooling/fixture plate of steel to accept vises and a "grid type" hole pattern that agrees with the shapes to be cut. Most parts will be to look at, so only surface finish needs to be good. I plan to adapt a High Speed 220v single phase spindle in to the BT-40 because .031 diameter tool will be used to get detail.​

Are there any workarounds for chip guards, all the parts are there but a lot of hours running, wonder how well they will telescope, they move just, but rubber part of the scraper seal is long gone, the underneath needs work.
You asked about the parameters, the attached files are what I have to start with, the small amount I recall from the discussion with prior owner was the 1 file needs to be edited, some, not a lot. I will know more soon. I have all 5 factory manuals. Attached are O M Options, the other file would not attach so copy and paste, is below.

I understand your suggestion about the 2 legs of the 3 phase. My real hope is I can disconnect the spindle and run on single phase, please see the pic of "control voltage" diagram. It looks like this is single phase, or is this just control voltage, and that the power or volts it controls are the 3 phase in question. I welcome your thoughts. If necessary, fake/change settings, so no error codes are activated.

This is one of the files opened in a text editor:
O9020(CALL 20T USED)
IF[#1000EQ1]GOTO102
M31T#20(CHECK TOOL N0)
G04X0.05
#145=0
#146=0
#147=0
IF[#1000EQ1]GOTO299(T CODE IS SP. TOOL NO)
IF[#4006EQ21]GOTO101
IF[#20EQ0]GOTO100(T ALARM CHECK)
IF[#20GE21]GOTO100(T ALARM CHECK)
IF[#20EQ#0]GOTO100(T ALARM CHECK)
#149=#4003
#148=#4001
G0G91G80G49M19
M66(TOOL CHANGE IN PLC)
IF[#1004EQ1]GOTO30(SP TOOL=0)
M17(BACKUP D440TO D481)
WHILE[#1002EQ0]DO1(Z1 ZERO RETURN)
#146=#146+1.
IF[#146GE4.]GOTO99
G30Z0
END1
N30
IF[#1004EQ0]GOTO20(SP TOOL=0)
WHILE[#1003EQ0]DO1(2Z ATC POS)
#147=#147+1.
IF[#147GE4.]GOTO98
G28Z0.
END1
N20
M41(MAG. FORWARD)
M32(SPINDLE TOOL UNCLAMP)
WHILE[#1003EQ0]DO1(Z2 ZERO RETURN)
#147=#147+1.
IF[#147GE4.]GOTO98
G28Z0
END1
T#20(MAG. ROTATE)
WHILE[#1002EQ0]DO1(Z1 ZERO RETURN)
#145=#145+1.
IF[#145GE4.]GOTO99
G30Z0
END1
M33(SPINDLE TOOL CLAMP)
G#148G#149
M42(MAG.BACK)
GOTO299
N98#3000=1(ATC POS2 LS ERROR)
N99#3000=2(ATC POS1 LS ERROR)
N100#3000=3(T/M6 ERROR)
N101#3000=4(UNIT MODE ERROR)
N102#3000=5(PRESS RESET KEY)
N299M34
G20
N300M99
%

Yes, keeping fingers crossed.
All suggestions warmly welcomed, many thanks.

 

[13engines]

Are there any workarounds for chip guards,

No... fix them. Seriously. You can give it your best shot at finding replacement seals, and there are companies that rebuild all types. Google around on it.

You asked about the parameters, the attached files are what I have to start with, the small amount I recall from the discussion with prior owner was the 1 file needs to be edited, some, not a lot. I will know more soon. I have all 5 factory manuals. Attached are O M Options, the other file would not attach so copy and paste, is below.

You need to delete the file you attached. Sharing that info is not allowed here.
That is a nice set of tool change Macros. If that is original to the machine I think your tool change troubles will be mechanical only if you have any at all. I don't know enough about Macros to read that without taking all day to do it.

None of what you showed so far are the basic set of parameters. I sure hope you have the originals somewhere or you will have your work cut out for you that's for sure.

I understand your suggestion about the 2 legs of the 3 phase. My real hope is I can disconnect the spindle and run on single phase, please see the pic of "control voltage" diagram. It looks like this is single phase, or is this just control voltage, and that the power or volts it controls are the 3 phase in question. I welcome your thoughts. If necessary, fake/change settings, so no error codes are activated.

You will need 3 phase to run the Servos. At least I think you do. Back when I had my RPC I believe I used to power up the control without running the RPC. Couldn't do anything but look at pages but...

Do you have a swing-arm tool changer or carousel type?

Might be nice to have an overall picture of your machine to see what we're working with here.

A small UPDATE: One parameter I can help you with is you will likely need the numeral 6 entered into parameter 0230. That way when you call for a tool change using M6 it will call up this Macro you posted.

 

[Vancbiker]

Your thread may get locked due to the option info you posted. The forum owners do not want to get control builders after them for openly sharing that info.

You might possibly get away with running the servo drives on single phase. Years ago I spoke with a guy that claimed he had gotten older Fanuc drives to run on single phase. I can say that a Fanuc digital 3 axis drive of 1989 vintage will not run on single phase. Tried it every different way I could think of and it was never happy. Toasted a rectifier module in the attempts too.

I have a Mori with Mitsu control and drives that has been running on single phase for about 10 years now though. So sometimes things that are not supposed to able to be work can and do.

 

[solidworks4u]

13engines, thanks for all your thoughts, I have deleted the attached file. This is a carousel style of tool changer.​

Vancbiker, thank you for the hope of single phase operation may be possible.​

I will be asking the prior owner about the parameters. The prior owner has agreed to help with parameters after electric is finished. Attached a pic (I have tried, to attach pics, 1.0 MB is too large).

Many thanks.

 

[solidworks4u]

Attached are some pics of the controller and spindle/tool changer. I found the manual to my camera to set the file size. Still working the parameters issue.

Many thanks

 

[solidworks4u]

13engines and Vancbiker, Happy New Year! Hope and pray for something better this year. I reached out to the machine builder with what I knew about the machine and received a few files. If you open the file, then it's just a bunch on "1s" & "0s". Is there a way to not key this data in at the machine control panel?? Is there a way to use the rs232 port vs. key it in?​

Many thanks!

 

[13engines]

I can't help you on this one, other then to suggest your search the forum or Google is probably better. You'll likely get forum finds as well as you tube and others. I've seen it out there somewhere.

Changing the state of any one of those bits can completely change how the machine operates. Even to the point of making it dangerous or acting in unexpected ways. Sort of amazing really. So you want to load them exactly right. Let's hope what you got from the MTB is what you need complete.

I've done everything I can to not have to load parameters en mass. Hence my lack of how to.

 

[solidworks4u]

13engines and Vancbiker, many thanks!​

The 911 parameter = (00000100) and the alarms (1000, (low air) 414,417,424,427,434,& 437 x, y, & z servo alarm) that are current alarms. I keyed in the parameters and reviewed the file a few times to compare to the original (this data was from the machine builder) parameters to the machine, and believe all are correct. The axes have not been homed yet, I think this is the next operation. What small amount I know about this is that each of the axes will travel to their limits, the "z" axis needs to travel slow (in case I need to do e-stop) the first time, has to go between floor joist for about 3" I believe. I am still pondering a lot after reading the manuals, but this is where I am at currently.

That last pic looks like a spindle encoder. On a 0M equipped machine usually indicates rigid tapping function is available.

@solidworks4u:
What is the content of parameter 911 on the machine?

Many, many thanks!

 

[13engines]

That's the correct bit. Happy to hear you got parameters loaded.

Curious if you have a PLC board in your control? It would be between the Graphics Card (If you have one) and Axis Board. Internal PLC, meaning no separate PLC board is considered PLC-L, while having a PLC board plugged in is PLC-M. Knowing this info may potentially help steer future problem solving.

 

[solidworks4u]

After keying in the parameters I have reviewed (3 times) them to make certain they are perfectly correct, the last review I plan to start at the other end and go backward when verifying and watch as I save use input key. The review takes over an hour, if you are looking hard to be correct, comparing the operator's panel to a computer monitor with the parameters listed. Some areas of the parameters were just "0", so just enter, and naturally, you need to keep your eye on the numbered lines.

13engines, attached is a pic of the module you were asking about, I know we talked about what the different component that are in this pic, I am just not confident to know for shore to describe to others. I have not homed any of the axes yet, but will be reading the manual and YouTube.​

Many thanks!

 

[13engines]

Way to go on getting the parameters loaded and checked.
Yes you have the same as I have, meaning no outboard PLC board, (you can see the empty PLC socket on the backpane) so built in PLC-L type. I think unless you have pallet changers or other systems heavy devices, the onboard PLC can handle things just find.

Not sure what you're learning on Youtube about homing. I've only done it once on an Incremental machine with Dogs back when I rebuilt my Supermax. Basically what you're really trying to do, at least for X and Y, is center the specified machine travels on the screws. Meaning when your machine is homed, you'll have a small or very small amount of unused travel left on the screw. The limit is defined by either the distance from the ballnut flange (or unflanged end) to a fixed dead end machine position. This may be the support bearing housing, a crash bumper of some sort, or on my Supermax, the compressible limit of the telescoping screw covers. When you move your machine in the opposite direction from home by the specified amount of travel in the manual, say 800mm for example, you should have as close to the exact same amount of extra screw left on that opposite end. In short... center full travel within the physically confined extremes of travel. You do this with Grid Shift. (Hopefully your Trip Dogs haven't been moved or you may be adjusting both) Your Grid Shift Parameters are 508 X / 509 Y / 510 Z / 511 4th. Note that these numbers can be negative. I can't recall if these inputs are in Encoder counts or Least Input Increments. Hopefully you've already run across that info. The Z axis of course is different in that it needs to home at the height of your tool changer. Being that you have a Carousel Changer your tool change height will be a little less then your full Z travel. I'm positive you have all your way covers out for repair right? ;-) You'll want them off so you can verify your table and saddle positions. You might want to do all this with the machine in Metric mode. Just makes it easier. Get a metric rule of some sort to help verify things.

I think if you were to check that the Deceleration and Hard Over-travel Trip Dogs are in place, and the switches that ride over them are also in place and working, you should be able to do a Zero Return on you X and Y with 0 or some small number in your Grid Shift parameters. If everything goes south, the Overtravel dog will stop things. Have your Rapid set at the slower setting for starters.

If you can find or look up the diagnostic bit that changes when the overtravel plunger on the switch is pressed you should be safe. You might be able to view this action in E-Stop so as to not shut down Servos and things. There is likely two plungers side by side for each axis. One is the Deceleration Dog plunger and the other the Overtravel one. Note that the Decel Trip Dog will have an on and off ramp. The Decel bit will change and the machine will decelerate when you hit the on ramp, and the bit will change back when you fall off the other side. Note that it is when the plunger falls off the back side and the bit changes back to it's original state that the Grid Shift starts counting.

One final note for now... if I'm not mistaken, whenever you change a Grid Shift amount. you'll need to turn off the control and turn it back on holding down P and Cancel. Do not hold down any other key combinations. P/Cancel clears the Grid or previous knowledge of the settings. If you don't Cancel, it won't read the change. I think... :-)

Good luck!