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Firing an employee because a better option came along

CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
Employees come in all sorts of personalities.
Often we want the ones that are clones of ourselves as it easier to understand how they think.
There will always be dispute as to if this is good or bad for any shop or company.

Telling someone "you messed up" is different than giving a piece of paper that says you screwed the pooch.
I had a carbon copy "ticket book". Actually one of those old "while you were out" phone log things and all understood that something was wrong if handed a slip.
All also knew that come raise evaluation time I'd pull out the book.
It would help me remember things I had try to correct and was there a change. Also a hard copy if I did remove an employee and proof against their unemployment claim.

If not working out to what you need how much time and effort should a boss put into trying to "fix" or understand a person?
This a huge investment on your side
Then the new prospect that I like so much and I think will be great. How often does that go south a year or two in? I bat maybe 50/50 on this at best.

Roll the dice or flip a coin. Seems that if asking the question your gut is saying something.
Bob
 

kustomizer

Titanium
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Location
North Fork Idaho
Employees come in all sorts of personalities.
Often we want the ones that are clones of ourselves as it easier to understand how they think.
There will always be dispute as to if this is good or bad for any shop or company.

Telling someone "you messed up" is different than giving a piece of paper that says you screwed the pooch.
I had a carbon copy "ticket book". Actually one of those old "while you were out" phone log things and all understood that something was wrong if handed a slip.
All also knew that come raise evaluation time I'd pull out the book.
It would help me remember things I had try to correct and was there a change. Also a hard copy if I did remove an employee and proof against their unemployment claim.

If not working out to what you need how much time and effort should a boss put into trying to "fix" or understand a person.
Then the new prospect that I like so much and I think will be great. How often does that go south a year or two in? I bat maybe 50/50 on this at best.
Bob

LOL
You know your old when you have to write things down to remember them, your even older when you know what a carbon copy is.

I have never understood the reluctance of employees to write things down, I have only ever had a few that would and they were all girls.

I have several binders I put together when I was trying to learn CNC/G-code, things I had trouble with and examples of how to do it right. The first machines I ran used a teletype and paper tape and Allen Bradley controls, the first with memory were Miyano's with a difficult to use manual so as I got stuff figured out I made a few notes so I could do it again, who does that anymore? What is the price of not?

I ran a help wanted ad one time titled "Its so easy a cave man can do it". I explained to applicants that one of the main reasons we know about cave men is because they kept good notes, 10,000 years later we know what they had for dinner, the tools they used to catch it, how they prepared it, on and on.. I gave the ones I hired a binder with a lot of useful information in it, encouraged them to add to it, had classes each week showing how to operate something, I could make them write in it but when they did it was gibberish they couldn't use if they were to look at it but they wouldn't.
I recon this is why there are pictures on the buttons at the cash register at burger king, Round table pizza has a picture of each pizza on the wall showing how many pepperoni slices and how to arrange them and now there is an expectation that this is the kind of effort and performance they should put in to make a "living wage", there are likely not too many machine shops where a guy can work very long if that is all he is willing to put forth of himself.
 

Tony Quiring

Titanium
Joined
Nov 5, 2008
Location
Madera county california usa
Op stated worker is a contract worker.

No hr issues to worry about.

Simply call the agency and review your concerns and pass along that person is not a good fit for your shop and you need to try someone else.

Suggest the other person sign up...

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk
 

Spittingchips

Plastic
Joined
Dec 20, 2021
Man I see this time and time again. I would have fired him before this new guy came along. The last 2 shops I worked at they complained about not being able to find people and I brought them people on the pretense I was also allowed to fire them and I was told I wasn't anymore. Never again will I show a job shop or any shop for that matter where to find people unless I have some skin in the game. I know it seems hard to find people for this trade but I think its mainly a generational difference. Dont feel bad for firing the guy just tell and don't tell him its cause your hiring someone else. Just tell him his drive and ethic is lackluster and your not there to instill hard work ethic in him.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Also consider Talk the talk is not the same as walk the walk.

It is not uncommon that faults are not easy to see from a distance.
You might consider the actual cost of the old guy's errors.
 
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CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
LOL
You know your old when you have to write things down to remember them, your even older when you know what a carbon copy is.

I have so many note pads scattered about it is hard to keep track of all of them. If I work late I even leave notes to myself about the machines. It seems past a certain hour my brain function diminishes. I treat morning me like leaving notes for day shift when you only have 1st and 2nd shift,and 2nd shift shuts down the shop.
 

DanielG

Stainless
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Location
Maine
There are actually two questions here. First, should you replace existing guy due to your issues with him? Second, should you hire new guy?

Question 1:

You seem to have three concrete complaints about existing guy: he won't take the tool out of the spindle at the end of the day, he took a long time to learn to check the coolant level (but he does now), and he's "slow as molasses". Is he less productive overall than the two operators you don't complain about?

If his productivity is similar, then you only have one current substantive complaint, the toolholder issue, and it sounds like this guy makes you money and does reliable work. How much money are you willing to pay and how much risk are you willing to take to solve a toolholder issue and get an employee who doesn't offend you with how he pushes open a door?

If he's much less productive and actually doing bad work, then you should look at replacing him regardless of the new guy situation.

Question 2:

You say that new guy is willing to start at the bottom and is willing to wait a few years. But is there anywhere for him to move up TO? You have yourself and 3 operators. Are you going to grow your business enough in the next few years to support an employee that isn't an operator? To me, this is less a question of your old employee and more a question of where you see your company in 2-5 years. If you're planning to grow to the point where you will need a high level person in addition to your operators, then it may make sense from a business standpoint to bring new guy on now and start training him up. If, on the other hand, what you need long term is an operator, why would you hire someone with plans (on both of your parts) to move up?
 

yardbird

Titanium
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Location
Indiana
I haven't read all four pages so someone may have asked this already but I'm just curious what reason you would give him for having to let him go?

Brent
 

mhajicek

Titanium
Joined
May 11, 2017
Location
Minneapolis, MN, USA
I learned long ago that you cannot PAY someone more $ to make them smarter or faster. They either can or cannot. They will step up the pace enough that you can see it, but soon fall back to their "normal" speed.

Perhaps, but someone who is underpaid, underappreciated, demoralized, will let their performance suffer.
 
O

otrlt

Guest
Work the slacker to his breaking point and make him quit.
Start piling on responsibilities that he doesn't like. And you take over the ones he does. It won't take long.

Hello Whely,
I'm sure you remember me, You run out of your garage. No skilled machinist, let alone a button pusher will work for you after they read your post.


You are not alone on this site, PM has too many novices on this site.
 

plastikdreams

Diamond
Joined
May 31, 2011
Location
upstate nj
Hello Whely,
I'm sure you remember me, You run out of your garage. No skilled machinist, let alone a button pusher will work for you after they read your post.


You are not alone on this site, PM has too many novices on this site.

Mmmm I don't think he qualifies as a novice lol.
 
O

otrlt

Guest
Mmmm I don't think he qualifies as a novice lol.

Hello plastic,

many here on this site can contribute regardless if they are owners or employees.

I will "call out" whely as a novice. He does not have the grasp of the skills necessary to be an average manager of a gas station.
 

CarbideBob

Diamond
Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Location
Flushing/Flint, Michigan
Kill them all and let God sort it out.
Any shop owner has this option free and clear.
Big question I see is if the grass greener on the other side.
The OP seems to think so and maybe 1000 percent right.
But he is troubled with the toss the as seen slacker to the curb and that speaks well to him.
How many would worry about this enough as shop boss to bring such a post?
Bob
 

wheelieking71

Diamond
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Location
Gilbert, AZ
Hello plastic,

many here on this site can contribute regardless if they are owners or employees.

I will "call out" whely as a novice. He does not have the grasp of the skills necessary to be an average manager of a gas station.

Your right. I hate the general public. No way I could do that job.
I would be forced to deal with jack-ass know-it-alls such as yourself.
And I just couldn't do that.
 

thermite

Diamond
If you are confident that the new guy will indeed be an upgrade, and stick around long enough to make it worthwhile, and you can still sleep at night, yes. But the fact that you are asking means there's a possibility that one of those conditions might not be true.

Virtue-signalled "moral" issues aside, "operationally", one doesn't "fire".'

One reorganizes, eliminates the position, "severs" employment, without prejudice, gives FOG a FAIR reference, even a (token) severance package.

Publishes the NEW position, with tighter job description the "severed" employee is known to NOT be able to meet, but the "hoped-for" new ones IS able to meet.

Then fills new position. Target new person OR some OTHER better person .. if that falls through. Because it can and does.

Not FNG's fault FOG is out from under-roof.

FOG can hold his head up, blame asshole Manager, who is PAID for taking that sort of blame, NOT blame FNG and go find a job he better suits.

If he's had his attention sharpened? He'll do BETTER, too.

BTDTGTTS, be happy for him in his NEW job. Now and then they even thank you for it.

Well .... "usually", they thank you for it... once you get GOOD at it!

Holding an inherently flexible HUMAN in a(ny) job they cannot do WELL .. burning away the hours of life they could be doing BETTER....is not, actually, a "kindness".

Mutually lazy form of de facto slavery, rather.

Up your game. Repeat.

Your competition does not take prisoners.
 

plastikdreams

Diamond
Joined
May 31, 2011
Location
upstate nj
Hello plastic,

many here on this site can contribute regardless if they are owners or employees.

I will "call out" whely as a novice. He does not have the grasp of the skills necessary to be an average manager of a gas station.

Interesting observation
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
QT: [Now say you've got a chance to hire a guy who is a known entity, is smart, is willing to start at the bottom and learn the trade, and is hungry. He is much more personable than the other guy, and stands a good chance to be a star employee.]
[chance to hire a guy who is a known entity,] from his or your opinion.. or from an actual reference?
Sure sounds like you like this guy better...does he drive a fancy car?


[ He has absolutely zero desire to learn anything, just wants his check and to go home. Which is fine; He's making good parts.]
...an employee that shows up on time, does exactly what he's told and no more.
Your opinion/liking this guy is much less.

Log your decision and you may learn something.
 








 
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