Firing an employee because a better option came along

[CarbideBob]

Employees come in all sorts of personalities.
Often we want the ones that are clones of ourselves as it easier to understand how they think.
There will always be dispute as to if this is good or bad for any shop or company.

Telling someone "you messed up" is different than giving a piece of paper that says you screwed the pooch.
I had a carbon copy "ticket book". Actually one of those old "while you were out" phone log things and all understood that something was wrong if handed a slip.
All also knew that come raise evaluation time I'd pull out the book.
It would help me remember things I had try to correct and was there a change. Also a hard copy if I did remove an employee and proof against their unemployment claim.

If not working out to what you need how much time and effort should a boss put into trying to "fix" or understand a person?
This a huge investment on your side
Then the new prospect that I like so much and I think will be great. How often does that go south a year or two in? I bat maybe 50/50 on this at best.

Roll the dice or flip a coin. Seems that if asking the question your gut is saying something.
Bob

 

[kustomizer]

Employees come in all sorts of personalities.
Often we want the ones that are clones of ourselves as it easier to understand how they think.
There will always be dispute as to if this is good or bad for any shop or company.

Telling someone "you messed up" is different than giving a piece of paper that says you screwed the pooch.
I had a carbon copy "ticket book". Actually one of those old "while you were out" phone log things and all understood that something was wrong if handed a slip.
All also knew that come raise evaluation time I'd pull out the book.
It would help me remember things I had try to correct and was there a change. Also a hard copy if I did remove an employee and proof against their unemployment claim.

If not working out to what you need how much time and effort should a boss put into trying to "fix" or understand a person.
Then the new prospect that I like so much and I think will be great. How often does that go south a year or two in? I bat maybe 50/50 on this at best.
Bob

LOL
You know your old when you have to write things down to remember them, your even older when you know what a carbon copy is.

I have never understood the reluctance of employees to write things down, I have only ever had a few that would and they were all girls.

I have several binders I put together when I was trying to learn CNC/G-code, things I had trouble with and examples of how to do it right. The first machines I ran used a teletype and paper tape and Allen Bradley controls, the first with memory were Miyano's with a difficult to use manual so as I got stuff figured out I made a few notes so I could do it again, who does that anymore? What is the price of not?

I ran a help wanted ad one time titled "Its so easy a cave man can do it". I explained to applicants that one of the main reasons we know about cave men is because they kept good notes, 10,000 years later we know what they had for dinner, the tools they used to catch it, how they prepared it, on and on.. I gave the ones I hired a binder with a lot of useful information in it, encouraged them to add to it, had classes each week showing how to operate something, I could make them write in it but when they did it was gibberish they couldn't use if they were to look at it but they wouldn't.
I recon this is why there are pictures on the buttons at the cash register at burger king, Round table pizza has a picture of each pizza on the wall showing how many pepperoni slices and how to arrange them and now there is an expectation that this is the kind of effort and performance they should put in to make a "living wage", there are likely not too many machine shops where a guy can work very long if that is all he is willing to put forth of himself.

 

[Tony Quiring]

Op stated worker is a contract worker.

No hr issues to worry about.

Simply call the agency and review your concerns and pass along that person is not a good fit for your shop and you need to try someone else.

Suggest the other person sign up...

Sent from my SM-G781V using Tapatalk

 

[Spittingchips]

Man I see this time and time again. I would have fired him before this new guy came along. The last 2 shops I worked at they complained about not being able to find people and I brought them people on the pretense I was also allowed to fire them and I was told I wasn't anymore. Never again will I show a job shop or any shop for that matter where to find people unless I have some skin in the game. I know it seems hard to find people for this trade but I think its mainly a generational difference. Dont feel bad for firing the guy just tell and don't tell him its cause your hiring someone else. Just tell him his drive and ethic is lackluster and your not there to instill hard work ethic in him.

 

[michiganbuck]

Also consider Talk the talk is not the same as walk the walk.

It is not uncommon that faults are not easy to see from a distance.
You might consider the actual cost of the old guy's errors.

 

[CITIZEN F16]

LOL
You know your old when you have to write things down to remember them, your even older when you know what a carbon copy is.

I have so many note pads scattered about it is hard to keep track of all of them. If I work late I even leave notes to myself about the machines. It seems past a certain hour my brain function diminishes. I treat morning me like leaving notes for day shift when you only have 1st and 2nd shift,and 2nd shift shuts down the shop.

 

[DanielG]

There are actually two questions here. First, should you replace existing guy due to your issues with him? Second, should you hire new guy?

Question 1:

You seem to have three concrete complaints about existing guy: he won't take the tool out of the spindle at the end of the day, he took a long time to learn to check the coolant level (but he does now), and he's "slow as molasses". Is he less productive overall than the two operators you don't complain about?

If his productivity is similar, then you only have one current substantive complaint, the toolholder issue, and it sounds like this guy makes you money and does reliable work. How much money are you willing to pay and how much risk are you willing to take to solve a toolholder issue and get an employee who doesn't offend you with how he pushes open a door?

If he's much less productive and actually doing bad work, then you should look at replacing him regardless of the new guy situation.

Question 2:

You say that new guy is willing to start at the bottom and is willing to wait a few years. But is there anywhere for him to move up TO? You have yourself and 3 operators. Are you going to grow your business enough in the next few years to support an employee that isn't an operator? To me, this is less a question of your old employee and more a question of where you see your company in 2-5 years. If you're planning to grow to the point where you will need a high level person in addition to your operators, then it may make sense from a business standpoint to bring new guy on now and start training him up. If, on the other hand, what you need long term is an operator, why would you hire someone with plans (on both of your parts) to move up?

 

[yardbird]

I haven't read all four pages so someone may have asked this already but I'm just curious what reason you would give him for having to let him go?

Brent

 

[mhajicek]

I learned long ago that you cannot PAY someone more $ to make them smarter or faster. They either can or cannot. They will step up the pace enough that you can see it, but soon fall back to their "normal" speed.

Perhaps, but someone who is underpaid, underappreciated, demoralized, will let their performance suffer.

 

[kustomizer]

Perhaps, but someone who is underpaid, underappreciated, demoralized, will let their performance suffer.

When your givashitter takes a shit it is time to get going

 

[DDoug]

I suspect the OP's shop will end up with a permanent sign out front "Now Hiring"....

 

[plastikdreams]

If someone fired me for someone that has 0 experience I'd find every way to shit on that guys shop.

 

[otrlt]

Work the slacker to his breaking point and make him quit.
Start piling on responsibilities that he doesn't like. And you take over the ones he does. It won't take long.

Hello Whely,
I'm sure you remember me, You run out of your garage. No skilled machinist, let alone a button pusher will work for you after they read your post.


You are not alone on this site, PM has too many novices on this site.

 

[plastikdreams]

Hello Whely,
I'm sure you remember me, You run out of your garage. No skilled machinist, let alone a button pusher will work for you after they read your post.


You are not alone on this site, PM has too many novices on this site.

Mmmm I don't think he qualifies as a novice lol.

 

[otrlt]

Mmmm I don't think he qualifies as a novice lol.

Hello plastic,

many here on this site can contribute regardless if they are owners or employees.

I will "call out" whely as a novice. He does not have the grasp of the skills necessary to be an average manager of a gas station.

 

[CarbideBob]

Kill them all and let God sort it out.
Any shop owner has this option free and clear.
Big question I see is if the grass greener on the other side.
The OP seems to think so and maybe 1000 percent right.
But he is troubled with the toss the as seen slacker to the curb and that speaks well to him.
How many would worry about this enough as shop boss to bring such a post?
Bob

 

[wheelieking71]

Hello plastic,

many here on this site can contribute regardless if they are owners or employees.

I will "call out" whely as a novice. He does not have the grasp of the skills necessary to be an average manager of a gas station.

Your right. I hate the general public. No way I could do that job.
I would be forced to deal with jack-ass know-it-alls such as yourself.
And I just couldn't do that.

 

[plastikdreams]

Hello plastic,

many here on this site can contribute regardless if they are owners or employees.

I will "call out" whely as a novice. He does not have the grasp of the skills necessary to be an average manager of a gas station.

Interesting observation

 

[michiganbuck]

QT: [Now say you've got a chance to hire a guy who is a known entity, is smart, is willing to start at the bottom and learn the trade, and is hungry. He is much more personable than the other guy, and stands a good chance to be a star employee.]
[chance to hire a guy who is a known entity,] from his or your opinion.. or from an actual reference?
Sure sounds like you like this guy better...does he drive a fancy car?


[ He has absolutely zero desire to learn anything, just wants his check and to go home. Which is fine; He's making good parts.]
...an employee that shows up on time, does exactly what he's told and no more.
Your opinion/liking this guy is much less.

Log your decision and you may learn something.

 

[wheelieking71]

Interesting observation

You mean "assumption".
He has never been in my shop, nor spoken to any people I have been above in a management position.
Which I have been in for well over 15 years now. The last 9 in my own shop.
God knows I'm far from perfect.
But, I am respectful and fair. And actually a pretty good boss, if I go by what I've been told by people that actually know me.

This:

the stupid things he always forgets to do, like check coolant level after lunch even though he's been told numerous times to do so. He has absolutely zero desire to learn anything, just wants his check and to go home.

Is what prompted the response I gave this guy. If Matt had not added that detail? My response (if I even had one) would have been very different.
Here is what I read in to this situation between the lines:
This guy doesn't "forget" to check the coolant. He just doesn't want to check the coolant. Why do I say that? Because Matt has told him numerous times.
So whether this kid subliminally forgets (because he just doesn't like dealing with it), or purposefully forgets (because he just doesn't like dealing with it),
doesn't matter. He has been told numerous times. Habits form very fast believe it or not. Good or bad.
And, "numerous times" is way too many.