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First Lathe - Mid 60's South Bend 13" x 5' - Where to Start

GForceJunky

Plastic
Joined
Feb 6, 2023
Let me start off by saying I last used a lathe in my university's machine shop nearly a decade ago. I have missed having access to a lathe and a mill (yet to come) and am super excited about the capabilities it will afford me. So there will probably be some heavily beginner questions, but I am also extremely hands-on and have a pretty well equipped shop (outside of precision machining tools/measurement equipment) and have rebuilt various other (smaller) machines, engines, transmissions, bikes, cars, etc.

My buddy was able to pick up 6 South Bend lathes coming out of a school shop (they were replacing with CNC machines). He knew I wanted one, so he loaded one up in WI and drove it over to MI (Detroit). I did not get to pick from the bunch, but I did get the only one with the taper attachment. I have no idea if others were in better or worse shape. I ended up spending more than I wanted to, at about $2500 for everything included in the pictures, but since it was all trade value for stuff of mine he wanted it didn't hurt so bad.

Looking at the machine, it's obvious it's well used. My first question is, do I even bother trying to run it as is? No matter what, I would do basic maintenance and replace whatever comes in the kit Steve has available, but I am wondering if I should just tear the whole thing apart before I ever make a chip. Reading some threads and watching some videos it doesn't seem terribly difficult to pull the whole machine apart and clean it up. Now, I wouldn't go to the trouble or expense of having the ways re-ground but short of that I would like to freshen everything up. Along the same lines, I was wondering what the best way to a) tell if my ways are hardened is, and b) clean up any nicks/indents/minor damage to the ways? Do people stone their ways?

I am planning to control the lathe with a VFD and am also looking to add a foot brake for obvious safety reasons. Any input/good resources on this would be greatly appreciated. Would also like to add a DRO if anyone has any tips/advice on this. Not a must, but definitely ideal.

All-in-all, I'm mostly just looking for some advice on where to start and key things to look for (signs of major trouble?). Does the book included with Steve's rebuild package kits go over a legitimate full rebuild (bearings, adjusting screws/etc.)?

The machine is a CLK145B (I can't find anything about the 'K' in CLK) with 13" swing and a 5' bed. The serial number is 10321TKK14 which puts it around 1964-65 and equipped with "Quick Change Gear (QCG), Friction Feed Apron, Underneath Motor Drive (UMD) and "Taper Key Lock Spindle", if my interpretation of the code/serial number is correct.

Please see attached pictures for more details including pictures of the various accessories I got with it, about 2/3 of which I know how to use/what they're for and about 1/3 I have no idea about. Not sure why the pictures aren't showing up in the thread without clicking the link, but they're there.
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bentwrench

Cast Iron
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Location
North Dakota
I would get it running first. Change the oil in the spindle and the apron. Clean all the way surfaces up and oil them. Get it running and verify everything runs under power. Then I would check the spindle clearances. Once you get to that point you can start taking some test cuts and see how it performs. By this point you will have figured out what condition it is really in.
 
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wood2steel

Cast Iron
Joined
May 17, 2013
Location
georgia
I agree completely with bentwrench,
clean the ways good, saturate well with correct oils and fire her up. Then you can target one area at a time for runout concerns or possibly wear. I've owned a 13" Tech school SB(which needed very little mantinance before putting into service) and currently have a 16" Tech school SB that I've completely disassembled. Both machines with hardened ways and no measurable wear on ways. Both machines were early 70's production, not sure if 1960's machines were hardened or not. I'm betting you've got a pretty solid machine except for appearance. At some point you may want to pull the saddle so you can verify the apron interior. Those are open back aprons and notorious for loading up with chips from air nozzle use around machines. Also have a SW paint formula for the correct color when you start on the appearance concerns! Ha!
PM if I can answer any direct questions.
 

bentwrench

Cast Iron
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Location
North Dakota

GForceJunky, I would also add that if you properly setup a VFD you already have a brake. I have a 1 hp drive on my 10L with an Eaton VFD I bough from e-bay for $60. I set that up with both dynamic and DC braking ( options in the VFD setup menu). I can stop the spindle, chuck, and workpiece at high speed in about 1/2 of a second.​


While a DRO is always a nice tool, in my experience it is less of an upgrade on a lathe compared to a mill. On a mill a DRO is just about essential, however, on a lathe it is nice to have but not critical.
 
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texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
I fixed your pics so they are visible. After attaching, click "insert" and choose thumbnail or full. I usually choose thumbnail, a reader can click to expand if they like, where full eats up a page.
 

GForceJunky

Plastic
Joined
Feb 6, 2023
I would get it running first. Change the oil in the spindle and the apron. Clean all the way surfaces up and oil them. Get it running and verify everything runs under power. Then I would check the spindle clearances. Once you get to that point you can start taking some test cuts and see how it performs. By this point you will have figured out what condition it is really in.

GForceJunky, I would also add that if you properly setup a VFD you already have a brake. I have a 1 hp drive on my 10L with an Eaton VFD I bough from e-bay for $60. I set that up with both dynamic and DC braking ( options in the VFD setup menu). I can stop the spindle, chuck, and workpiece at high speed in about 1/2 of a second.​


While a DRO is always a nice tool, in my experience it is less of an upgrade on a lathe compared to a mill. On a mill a DRO is just about essential, however, on a lathe it is nice to have but not critical.
Sounds like a reasonable plan of attack. Where can I find info on checking the spindle clearances and what values I should be looking for? I have to get my hands on some cutters as although the lathe came with all sorts of accessories it didn't come with a single bit, not even a basic HSS one. As for the VFD and braking, I didn't mean that I wanted to set up a mechanical brake, but that I wanted to set up a foot brake connected to the VFD as a brake input in case something happens and I ever get tangled up in the lathe and can't hit the e-stop/VFD/etc. I just want that big ol' foot bar to stomp on. I'll have to figure out how to wire it in.

I did take a look and the number of VFD options out there is overwhelming to say the least. Any thoughts on any of these? Or perhaps you know of a cheaper one that'll do the trick?






I'm planning to order some swivel leveling feet from McMaster-Carr. Any other items I should grab from them that you think will be necessary to getting this thing turning chips?
 

GForceJunky

Plastic
Joined
Feb 6, 2023
I agree completely with bentwrench,
clean the ways good, saturate well with correct oils and fire her up. Then you can target one area at a time for runout concerns or possibly wear. I've owned a 13" Tech school SB(which needed very little mantinance before putting into service) and currently have a 16" Tech school SB that I've completely disassembled. Both machines with hardened ways and no measurable wear on ways. Both machines were early 70's production, not sure if 1960's machines were hardened or not. I'm betting you've got a pretty solid machine except for appearance. At some point you may want to pull the saddle so you can verify the apron interior. Those are open back aprons and notorious for loading up with chips from air nozzle use around machines. Also have a SW paint formula for the correct color when you start on the appearance concerns! Ha!
PM if I can answer any direct questions.

Sounds like a plan! I'll get it running first, figure out the issues, then pull it all apart and fix whatever needs fixing and don't mess with what doesn't. I got your PM. I'll reply back shortly. Definitely have questions! Appreciate it!

Best to not use spray cleaners, but pick out the chips and Oli rag wipe all the bare metal...and don't wire brush the hand wheel numbers

Oil with mineral spirits is good for wiping.

Good tips. Definitely wasn't planning to do anything aggressive to the hand wheels but always a good reminder. I have mineral spirits and I have oil...shouldn't be too hard to get it cleaned up.
 

animal12

Hot Rolled
Joined
Apr 9, 2009
Location
CA USA
I'd pull the spindle before you do anything & make sure that teh spindle wicks are still there & working . . You could ruin a spindle in a minute . It don't take long to check . Do a google for South Bend Late rebuild kit . That wil come with a book that tells you eveything you need to know about your machine & will also have the wicks needed to get the lubrication system in check .
animal
 

GForceJunky

Plastic
Joined
Feb 6, 2023
I'd pull the spindle before you do anything & make sure that teh spindle wicks are still there & working . . You could ruin a spindle in a minute . It don't take long to check . Do a google for South Bend Late rebuild kit . That wil come with a book that tells you eveything you need to know about your machine & will also have the wicks needed to get the lubrication system in check .
animal
I ordered the rebuild kit. For now I got the one with all the different oils until I figure out which ones I go through quicker and order the big jugs. Hopefully it shows up by the weekend and I get a little time to dig in.
 

G-ManBart

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
I agree with most everyone else...get it running and then decide how to proceed.

Just FYI, but I don't think you overpaid at all considering all the stuff you got. The pile on the floor is worth $2K give or take.
 

GForceJunky

Plastic
Joined
Feb 6, 2023
I agree with most everyone else...get it running and then decide how to proceed.

Just FYI, but I don't think you overpaid at all considering all the stuff you got. The pile on the floor is worth $2K give or take.
That's good to know. Getting the accessories was key to the deal for me, so I'm glad I got them. I know how quickly every bit can add up...
 

EmGo

Diamond
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Over the River and Through the Woods
Flat belt runs lovely and smooth and quiet and changes speed faster than a vfd. For a brake you put your left hand on the chuck and press. When the hand gets too hot, reduce pressure. Foot brake would be stupid on a south bend and if it actually stopped hard, dangerous. Don't plug it, you can unscrew the chuck. Leave the belt tensioner in the off position when you go away so you don't stretch the belt. If you kick the feeds out as much as possible, it'll be quieter, almost silent. A lot of the time you don't need them.

Clean it, oil it, run it. It's plenty nice to use as-is and you aren't going to improve what works by playing amateur machine designer.

These are actually really nice to use and make round parts because they have plain bearings. When the feeds are out, the quietness is very nice, too. I like them a bunch better than many small lathes that have better specs. They are just ... comfortable ?
 
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wood2steel

Cast Iron
Joined
May 17, 2013
Location
georgia
Flat belt runs lovely and smooth and quiet and changes speed faster than a vfd. For a brake you put your left hand on the chuck and press. When the hand gets too hot, reduce pressure. Foot brake would be stupid on a south bend and if it actually stopped hard, dangerous. Don't plug it, you can unscrew the chuck. Leave the belt tensioner in the off position when you go away so you don't stretch the belt. If you kick the feeds out as much as possible, it'll be quieter, almost silent. A lot of the time you don't need them.

Clean it, oil it, run it. It's plenty nice to use as-is and you aren't going to improve what works by playing amateur machine designer.

These are actually really nice to use and make round parts because they have plain bearings. When the feeds are out, the quietness is very nice, too. I like them a bunch better than many small lathes that have better specs. They are just ... comfortable ?
Sounds like You cut your teeth on a Southbend many year ago as well!! Ha
This 16 SB is definitely sweet; but these L&S's have Spoiled me
 

bentwrench

Cast Iron
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Location
North Dakota
Flat belt runs lovely and smooth and quiet and changes speed faster than a vfd. For a brake you put your left hand on the chuck and press. When the hand gets too hot, reduce pressure. Foot brake would be stupid on a south bend and if it actually stopped hard, dangerous. Don't plug it, you can unscrew the chuck. Leave the belt tensioner in the off position when you go away so you don't stretch the belt. If you kick the feeds out as much as possible, it'll be quieter, almost silent. A lot of the time you don't need them.

Clean it, oil it, run it. It's plenty nice to use as-is and you aren't going to improve what works by playing amateur machine designer.

These are actually really nice to use and make round parts because they have plain bearings. When the feeds are out, the quietness is very nice, too. I like them a bunch better than many small lathes that have better specs. They are just ... comfortable ?
He has an L spindle, that is not unscrewing anytime soon without a spanner wrench and a large cheater bar. It's keyed and is far superior to a threaded spindle nose. Having a spindle break is a really nice feature. Threading becomes a breeze when you never have to disengage the half nuts.
 








 
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