First Lathe, Model 61 13x57 Toolroom No.1 plus swing 18.5"

[CDR243]

...

As you already mentioned, the lathe came with an adapter sleeve originally. Mine too. And looking a specs in a brochure, it claims spindle taper as MT4 for mine, which is actually my tailstock taper. A 13" is listed as MT3. Again presuming both had adapters. And the adapters would give a matching taper to tailstock. I bring it up because I think you should measure the large end/opening of your spindle. Presume its a morse taper, and use your measurement determine if short/ stud mt5, or mt4.

I read the MT "short" taper in your original post but could not find it again. Thanks for linking. Mine is 1.7XX off the top of my head which would put it in the MT5 range. My issue is my through bore is only 1.312. The MT5 center hits the small end (1.475") after it clears a relief around 3 - 4" (likely cut to give dirt a place to go). Looks like the 16" models have a 1.562" bore which explains how you cleared the reamer.

I don't 100% have a reason to "fix" this outside of that I was going to run a reamer into the spindle to deburr the hole for the test bar. Now it's just kind of on my mind to "fix" it. I can't think of a reason extending the relief after the taper would hurt anything. If I go 5.25" from the face, most MT5 reamers, test bars, and centers should clear. So I think

 

[CDR243]

Does your manual have the drawings for the tailstock crank assembly? My manual doesn't show anything about it but machine was originally fitted for one. The braket is still there but the rest is MIA.

The Series 60 manual SN#34626 has an image of the crank assembly. I don't have a 61 manual yet. It's on the way. been using the online ones.

 

[CDR243]

on the motor - I have a 1800RPM motor with a 1000 RPM pully. The 13" had a factory option for 1500 RPM. Which to Texasgeartrains point would need a different pully. I didn't think of that. I was originally thinking of over-spinning the current motor with a VFD if I needed more speed on occasion. With the 2nd motor in the systems that gets a bit more challenging. Mostly just thinking as that is phase two stuff.

 

[texasgeartrain]

Does your manual have the drawings for the tailstock crank assembly? My manual doesn't show anything about it but machine was originally fitted for one. The braket is still there but the rest is MIA.

Pic of one for perspective. Parts not shown in my 61 parts manual.

 

[guythatbrews]

Late to the party here but chiming in on chuck size.

A 16" chuck is big for this lathe unless you've got work that will require it. Bigger chucks are just more cumbersome to manipulate on an every day basis. If a big job comes along you can always get a big chuck then.

I think you say a 12" set true chuck came with the lathe. That seems about right to me. Even 10" would be good for a ton of stuff. It's easy to want to provide for that one big job but you will pay for it with less convenience on every othe job.

You say you can't use a 3 jaw for barrel work. Why is that? A set true 3 jaw seems ideal.

About a headstock center. Like a lot of folks, I just turn a center in the chuck when turning between centers. Soon you will have an assortment of turned centers of different sizes. Drive the lathe dog with a chuck jaw.
.

 

[beckerkumm]

Thanks for the pictures of the tailstock. My machine from 1954 is a transitional series 60 with 61 gearbox. Monarch sent me a manual for a 61 and there are differences. I'll be watching for a 60 parts manual. Dave

 

[CDR243]

Thanks for the pictures of the tailstock. My machine from 1954 is a transitional series 60 with 61 gearbox. Monarch sent me a manual for a 61 and there are differences. I'll be watching for a 60 parts manual. Dave

I'll send you this one if you want it.

 

[beckerkumm]

I'll send you this one if you want it.

I'll take it. Let me know what you want by pm and I'll send you a check.. Dave

 

[CDR243]

Hey all, not too much to report just starting to see tools, wire, oil, and cleaning supplies trickle in. Megan keeps asking if they are gifts for her. I say it's for us, lol. I started reading Machine Tool Reconditioning by Connelly. Really good stuff on testing machines. It feels a lot like I'm learning to walk, but I having fun. I figure I'll learn and make a little progress each day. On day, I might be able to make something useful.



Just looking at this pic now. The 'lower ways" are likely the best surface to level from, as I don't think they get worn. This assumes the lowers are ground to the same precision as the ways. Umm? Speaking of precision, I know Monarch says they ground the ways to .0005 overall on 61's; that's impressive if they kept the same tolerance on the 30" - 216" units. Would be real cool to see this big grinder in action.




My rough idea and plan is to make some chips without harming the machine.

• Clean, Deburr, and Inspect
  • Tailstock
    • Order MT 3 reamer
    • Ream to clear burrs, Umm, Reamer seems too long??
  • Cross-slide & Compound
    • Disassemble and clean
      • found a few small burrs on the compound, which needs angled stone
  • Chuck
    • Three jaw - Removed successfully
      • cam locks are out of adjustment,
    • Order 4 jaw
  • Spindle taper
    • Order MT5 Reamer
      • Reamer is too long, need to decide on the next step.
• Power
  • Order phase converter
  • Pick up wire
  • Confirm the motor is wired for 208-220, can I do this without removing it?
• Lubrication
  • Order factory spec grease, way oil, lube
  • Change oil - headstock, inspect oiling, and clean (filter, felt, wipers)
  • Change oil - QCGB, inspect oiling, and clean (filter, felt, wipers)
  • Change oil - apron, inspect oiling, and clean (filter, felt, wipers)
  • Grease motor ( cycle old out)
  • Grease clutch (cycle old out by removing relieve valve)
• Set up
  
  • Precision Level unit
    • Order Level & Gauge Blocks
  • Align Tailstock
    • Order test ,MT5, MT3, & center test bars
    • Order indicators & holders
• Cut something

 

[CDR243]

Speaking of monster grinders, this "needs" to be in my shop... Maybe if I prove to myself, I can make one machine work... LOL!

 

[texasgeartrain]

On your list is confirming which voltage motor is wired for. Probably can do without removing motor, but it might be a tight fit to get eyes and hands to figure it out.

If an original motor, the data tag for motor may be in the door frame, where the pulley end is. Otherwise, those tags are directly on motor. On the tag it should tell connections for high voltage(480v), or low voltage 208-240v. The connections are maybe 9 wires, and each wire is labeled 1-9.

Those numbered and labeled wires are in the connections box directly attached to the side of motor, and the 3 main leads from main contactor also go into that box. And the 9 labeled wires connect directly to main 3 leads.

By removing side cover off that box, remove electric tape from the 3 leads. . . You can see how and which labeled wires are connected to the 3 main leads. Or a 4th group may be wired together, and removing tape can tell you by process of elimination.

 

[mattthemuppet]

I think I might have an mt5 short spindle adapter (I think it has an mt3 dead center in it). If you can get me some measurements I'll be able to confirm.

 

[CDR243]

Manual and way wipers showed up today. They are felt only, I noticed some had rubber on the machine. The Manual is complete but photocopied in a hardback binder. Makes me wonder if my Series 60 manual was original.

Got the shop plans (45x72x20) nailed down and hopefully get started on the dirt work when the ground dries up.

 

[cyanidekid]

congrats, nice one!.
as has been said a large chuck is a terrible all around choice.
besides the other reasons already laid out, it is also harder to zero work because the threads are very coarse on the screws,
those honkin big jaws swingin around at 1000 rpm are an extra unnecessary hazard to personnel and equipment,
and jaw slop is inevitably going to be greater and even if it weren't, the higher jaws will exaggerate the effect if you are trying to grab short work.

as to max. rpms, 15k sounds fast for a 16" independent cast iron body. a chuck's max depends on a number of factors, including if its a steel body or cast iron, and quality of construction and of the casting, if its a scroll or independent.
a scroll chuck can spin a little faster all other things being equal, as the steel scroll is pulling the jaws together, an independent jaw is relying on the body alone to push the jaws inward, adding to the forces pushing outward.

having said that, unlike what some others have said, I highly favor having one that maxes out your lathe, or nearly so, as an option.
not all work will be over the saddle, and not all work will send the jaws past the body. for example, I have a small drill press table mounted on my Graziano SAG 17 right now in a 15" 4 jaw chuck, and it's obvious lots of work can be gripped with the jaws in the O.D. config. and be a facing job.
you said you started as a wood shop. don't know if you ever make bowls, but that's another use for the swing you have.
the 12" adjust true is a decent primary chuck for this lathe, and even if you had a smaller lathe, I think a 6 or 8 would be good to have as well. you may have the smaller lathe set up for collets and want to do a smaller job. in fact I might not bother making a backplate for the 5C chuck for this lathe (I think you said you were intending on doing that?) if you get a Hardinge or other smaller unit that is optimum for collet work.

you will most definitely want to rig something to assist in changing chucks on this baby!

good luck and happy turning!

 

[cyanidekid]

Great, I just ordered two American reamers (hopefully not junk) from Lavallee & Ide. The oil should arrive today. Hopefully under power by the weekend.

one more thing, I would avoid using a reamer on a hardened steel taper unless it's really messed up. aside from being hardened, I think keeping as much the original surface, and just carefully knocking off any bumps or burrs with a fine stone and some 1000 paper is absolutely the way to go. if a spindle is really messed up, a regrind is actually how that's properly fixed, not a reamer.

 

[CDR243]

Really appreciate everyone's input. A few small updates on chucks - I picked up a Hardinge HLV-H and a 59 so smaller work will likely be handled by the Hardinge in time. Still might get a 10EE one day but I have way too many projects now. I went with an 8" steel bison 4 jaw. Plus I have the Bison 12" 3 jaws. I am still on the lookout for a big 16" chuck and faceplate for "should I ever need them".

Funny you mention moving things. I'm considering getting a used 5-ton bridge crane for the new shop build. I'd have 45' x 75' under crane power. It was not figured into the original budget and plan but I don't have the best back (avoiding surgery) after a few car crashes. I think long term it will keep me working on things when I can't muscle things around like in my younger days.

This all has become a bit of a rabbit hole that I always dreamed of and is now coming to reality.

 

[akerman]

Hi, the machine is on the road to from MI. A good buddy of mine when to pick it up. I must say I was surprised at the 8680 pounds on the tag. I thought it was a standard 13" model @ 5500# listed in the Monarch Catalog. Looks like it's a "Plus Swing" which seems to bump up the weight to the 16" units numbers (assuming). Pic and stories to follow I progress on my to chips. View attachment 379579

Would a 14”x78” with 18.5 swing be a plus size also?

 

[CDR243]

Would a 14”x78” with 18.5 swing be a plus size also?

I didn't think they made a 14" 61 from the catalogs I've looked at.

 

[akerman]

I didn't think they made a 14" 61 from the catalogs I've looked at.

I didn't think they made a 14" 61 from the catalogs I've looked at.

I didn't think they made a 14" 61 from the catalogs I've looked at.

 

[CDR243]

I believe that is a Series 60 Lathe, not a Series 61. The 61 specifically calls out Plus Swing Models (No.1 or No.2) for 13",16", or 20" machines. The Series 60 has no call to my limited knowledge. I believe they were just known as "raised in the sand lathes." Marketing must have got ahold of it for the 61 product launch.

So I would say no you don't have a "Plus Swing" lathe, but you have a plus swing lathe or raised in the sand lathe.