First Lathe, Model 61 13x57 Toolroom No.1 plus swing 18.5"

[CDR243]

Hi, the machine is on the road to from MI. A good buddy of mine when to pick it up. I must say I was surprised at the 8680 pounds on the tag. I thought it was a standard 13" model @ 5500# listed in the Monarch Catalog. Looks like it's a "Plus Swing" which seems to bump up the weight to the 16" units numbers (assuming). Pic and stories to follow I progress on my to chips.

 

[CDR243]

 

[beckerkumm]

Are there design differences that make a plus swing 13" a better choice than a regular 16" ? Dave

 

[CDR243]

Are there design differences that make a plus swing 13" a better choice than a regular 16" ? Dave

From my understanding, a 13" Plus Swing was an "economy" option vs. a full 16.

Per the 61 catalog
Many lathe users occasionally require more swing than is provided by a standard machine yet find it impractical to purchase a larger standard machine because of the increased investment in capacity not ordinarily required.
Monarch plus-swing lathes provide added swing economically. They are completely satisfactory for turning an occasional large part, for shafts with a previously machined large diameter section, and for light cuts on large diameters.. ·

Monarch builds its standard machines with exceptionally sturdy beds and more than ample proportions to give plus-swing without sacrificing precision operation. All plus-swing castings are machined in standard jigs and fixtures, this being the further assurance of the same accurate performance for which standard Monarch lathes are famous.

 

[jlegge]

Are there design differences that make a plus swing 13" a better choice than a regular 16" ? Dave

What Monarch called a raised in the sand is a lathe with extra swing on a smaller bed. In this case a 16" swing lathe on a 13" swing bed. So the bed is narrower.

John

 

[alcro1998]

Awesome lathe! I was eyeing that one at the auction. Looks to be in great shape and seems to have a lot of nice features!

 

[CDR243]

Awesome lathe! I was eyeing that one at the auction. Looks to be in great shape and seems to have a lot of nice features!

Thank you. I hope to have it up and running in the next week. I really have no clue what I'm doing with a lathe. I do have some good machinist friends to get me pointed in the right direction.

The tool and die maker at the shop got a manual, steady, and follow the rest for it. Off to a good start.

I wanted to bid on a few other items like the chucks and dogs, but most of them closed before this lot wrapped up. Each bid extended it 5 min. Not sure I got a killer deal but I'm happy so far. Sadly, I had to give up the shelving unit I bought as the trailer was overweight. I was not expecting this machine to be so much heavier than the standard 13" unit.

 

[Cole2534]

Well, you're screwed now. About any other lathe will never measure up to your first one.

A good problem to encounter.

 

[CDR243]

Well, you're screwed now. About any other lathe will never measure up to your first one.

A good problem to encounter.

I tend to be slightly obsessive with hobbies. This whole sickness started when I wanted a woodshop at the house. I didn't want basic new machines, I fell in love with old ones. Well, they all needed parts. So... I should have got a basic machine to make them. No not me, I fell in love with even cooler old metalworking machines. I now have a mill, Moore Jig Bore, a surface grinder, and the Model 61. Now I need a bigger shop

 

[TheOldCar]

Well, you're screwed now. About any other lathe will never measure up to your first one.

A good problem to encounter.

Just think of how disappointing any subsequent lathe will be after starting with this!
Lead screw reverse and the Monarch threading stop! Rapids! 18-1/2" swing!

It looks like original paint, also. NICE.

 

[CDR243]

The slow trip home.

 

[texasgeartrain]

Are there design differences that make a plus swing 13" a better choice than a regular 16" ? Dave

I have a 1956 16" series 61 with 18.5" actual. By the late 50's and into the 1960's Monarch was upping the top spindle speed on larger lathes. Even so, one advantage a 13" would typically have is a higher spindle speed. Mine is 1000 rpm. Can't see your headstock controls in the pic, but I'd bet top spindle speed was at least 1200 to 1500 rpm on yours from factory.

I wasn't aware that they were still making 61 series by 1961, but the nature of the plus swing might explain that, as the regular size models got even bigger and heavier after the series 61.

 

[alcro1998]

Price seemed good to me. As others have said this will be hard to beat as a first lathe and you certainly chose a decked out. Based on the pics, this was the best lathe at the auction. The steady rest and follow rest are a fantastic bonus as well!

 

[CDR243]

I'm starting to look through manuals and see if I can figure out the difference in sight glass locations.

 

[CDR243]

Looks like it the lathe went to Bell Labs in 61. Build sheet attached

 

[alcro1998]

Looks like it the lathe went to Bell Labs in 61. Build sheet attached

Not sure if you got that from Monarch but you can call Monarch and they will pull the file and tell you everything about the lathe. You can also get a machine specific manual from them for around $50.

 

[CDR243]

I have a 1956 16" series 61 with 18.5" actual. By the late 50's and into the 1960's Monarch was upping the top spindle speed on larger lathes. Even so, one advantage a 13" would typically have is a higher spindle speed. Mine is 1000 rpm. Can't see your headstock controls in the pic, but I'd bet top spindle speed was at least 1200 to 1500 rpm on yours from factory.

I wasn't aware that they were still making 61 series by 1961, but the nature of the plus swing might explain that, as the regular size models got even bigger and heavier after the series 61.

Thank you for the info. I greatly appreciate your posts. Some things jump out from the pictures. Firstly the location of the oil window on the headstock and the lack of vin tag on the head. It's on the tail. I'll dive in more when it arrives back in TX.

 

[CDR243]

Not sure if you got that from Monarch but you can call Monarch and they will pull the file and tell you everything about the lathe. You can also get a machine specific manual from them for around $50.

I did, I emailed them for the history. I didn't know about the manual. I will call them and get it ordered. Thank you.

 

[texasgeartrain]

Thank you for the info. I greatly appreciate your posts. Some things jump out from the pictures. Firstly the location of the oil window on the headstock and the lack of vin tag on the head. It's on the tail. I'll dive in more when it arrives back in TX.

I think there is room on headstock for data tag, as 13"s from the 1950's had it there. The site glass location I would think because its a different casting then the 16". The 13" headstock, tailstock, are definitely smaller in size than a 16", maybe carriage and apron too.

Just about a year ago I saw two 13's at an auction in Houston. If you click "see item details", you can still go through all the pics. A regular 13":

15.5" x 54" Monarch Model 13" Engine Lathe, new 1957, 15.5" swing over bed, 54" ctrs, 16 spindle

Lot 116 at Machine Tools and Surplus Assets to a Major Oilfield Research & Development Center from Harris Auctions.

www.bidspotter.com

And a plus swing 13", with 20.5" actual:

20" x 150" Monarch Model 13" Engine Lathe, new 1957, 20.5" swing over bed, 13" over carriage, 150

Lot 118 at Machine Tools and Surplus Assets to a Major Oilfield Research & Development Center from Harris Auctions.

www.bidspotter.com

When I saw them first hand, I could see physical size of headstock was smaller than my 16". Some pics from those links:





If you do call Monarch for the build sheet, get the service and parts manual too. It comes in a nice binder. And you'll notice in the parts section, many 13" parts are on a separate page from identical 16" parts, due to size making them a different part. In fact, I would gather the smaller size is what allows the higher top speed on headstock.

 

[CDR243]

I think there is room on headstock for data tag, as 13"s from the 1950's had it there. The site glass location I would think because its a different casting then the 16". The 13" headstock, tailstock, are definitely smaller in size than a 16", maybe carriage and apron too.

Solid observation, thank you. Seems like the 13" units had the sight glass in a different locations, From what I can tell looking at the catalogs you could order a 13" head with standard 15.5" plus swing no.1 with a 18.5", or plus swing no.2 with 20 1/2 swings. The 16" and 20" lathes have a lot more mass for sure. For what it's worth on why Monarch calling a 15.5" lathe a 13". I belive the 13" is the rated "full cut" size.



On the speed side of things. The 13" seem to have 3600 RPM motor as a option allowing 1200rpm and 1500rpm top speeds. My unit has the 1800 PRM unit allowing 1000RPM. should I find I need more speed I will likey run a VFD at some point and overdirve the motor to 3600.

I will 100% order the parts and maual. thanks for the tip.