Folks I need a saw- Cold or Miterband?

[boslab]

Mitre band ie the pull downs are very useful, however I prefer the pull down circular cold saws like MEC brown or kaltenbach ( the one I have is a 250 mm blade)
Clean accurate, indexing and repeatable, good on any material, from steel to plastic, blade life good and blades can be resharpened and re tipped.
A brown would be my choice.
Mark

 

[Ries]

Mitre band ie the pull downs are very useful, however I prefer the pull down circular cold saws like MEC brown or kaltenbach ( the one I have is a 250 mm blade)
Clean accurate, indexing and repeatable, good on any material, from steel to plastic, blade life good and blades can be resharpened and re tipped.
A brown would be my choice.
Mark

Brown was sold here as Pedrozzoli, but there is virtually no support or part’s availabilit. Hence Haberle being more popular, as they have good support.

 

[Trboatworks]

Well the Eagle has landed.
Always nice to get in new gear even when facing a clean up plus voltage problems and all sundry

 

[DanielG]

I bought the Haberle H90.
This damn thing will dance.
Vise swings in Z and slides to and fro in XY.
Plus, the head rotates to miter and drops to the right all the way over to horizontal.

How much was it?

 

[Trboatworks]

How much was it?

The H90 comes in at $18k
Fortunately I found a used saw.

 

[Trboatworks]

Well I got the saw into the shop.

How we brag to our friends:

“I scored the perfect H90.”
“It was bought new by a clock maker who only ran 1/8” brass rounds on it and I got it for five dollars.”




The reality:

“I paid a bloody fortune for this damn thing.”
“Its got the wrong motor and I am gonna have to tear it right down to clean it up to be able to use it”



Well as the facts are it looks like moderate industrial use.
All gummed up and dirty but nothing wrong with it.
I usually give every machine coming in the spa treatment so I don’t have to fight with it in use and the Haberle is getting that.

This came with a used 180 2.5x350 and a new 180 3x350.
I will see about getting the teeth recut on the used blade and buy a couple more.
I am planning on running the Haberle cutting oil.



The motor is 440/3 which I can push in my shop through the normal dodges of transformer/VFD which I already have setup.

I’d rather just push this 220/3 with the PP so am looking for a replacement motor.

Two speed 850/1700 rpm 1.2/2.4 kw if anyone has any leads on motors.



Thanks all

 

[projectnut]

Your saw started out in a little better shape than mine. Cutting oil may be a better choice than water soluble cutting fluid. Everyone I've spoken to that uses cutting fluid has to disassemble and thoroughly clean their saw every 5 years or so. The cutting fluid also seems to be hard on the paint.

Here are a few pictures of the saw when I got it and the finished product. Now all I have to do is find a semi-permanent place in the shop for it. I say semi-permanent because it seems I'm always adding and moving things around.

 

[Trboatworks]

Is there anything I should know going into the phone call with the sharpening service for these blades?
Looking at these shops it sounds like they know the business and one could just take their advice and run with it?

The things I am wondering about is if I should run some smaller diameter blades.
Like for the 1" thin wall stainless- fine tooth and try to drop the blade thickness down and run 300mm?

I am trying to get away with setting up all the blades for stainless and push them into service for aluminum for those times I am not simply using the chop saw.
Delrin?
Same practice?
I cut up some 4" rod on occasion and would like to get that off the chop saws.

The H90 is a 350mm saw- the new blade I have is 3mm thick 190 tooth and I have to check on rake and grind.
Are the larger blades always thicker to keep true with feed loads?
I guess my instinct is drop the blank thickness to reduce loads but there is that reality of torque on that big disk- there must be a worked out balance of pitch/diameter/thickness?

 

[Overland]

I'm sure you're going to be more than happy with your new saw. One bit of advice though make sure you buy a couple of each of the most used blade grind and tooth count. While each blade should give you close to 1,000 cuts it will eventually need to be resharpened or retoothed. It usually takes 4 days or so to ship one out, have it sharpened, and returned. If you intend to use the saw while the blade is being sharpened, you'll need to install the spare while the original is out for sharpening. Also keep in mind there is a break in process similar to that of a bandsaw blade. Normal speed for the material should be used, but the feed rate should be cut to about 1/3 for the first ten or so cuts.

I'm not sure what Overland was referring to with the statement "Fabulous old saws, and blades are dirt cheap." Most 350mm blades run between $150.00 and $300.00 depending on the material it's made from and the manufacturer. That may be "dirt cheap" to some, but it's by far the most expensive blade for any saw in my shop. As a precaution against tooth breakage and wear I have 2 blades for mild steel, 2 for aluminum, and 1 for stainless steel. At this point in time, I'm doing more aluminum than anything else. When/if I start doing more stainless, I'll be in the market for a spare blade for that material.

Have fun with your new saw.

I was referring to hacksaw blades for my Rapidor power hacksaw. NOT the circular saw blades.
Bob

 

[projectnut]

I'm fairly new at using the saw and have gone with the recommendations of the Cold Saw Shop. Having said that the blade that came with the saw originally had 180 teeth and was ground for mild steel. It was down to 315mm and worked just fine. I sent it in for sharpening since it had a chipped tooth. They ground off all the teeth and changed the profile to 120 tooth ground for stainless. It's now down to 305mm and works great. If it had just needed sharpening the cost would have been $17.00 plus shipping. Since it needed to be "retoothed" the cost was $34.00 plus shipping. At the time I was advised most blades can be sharpened up to 40 times. Each time the blade is sharpened the gullet depth is slightly reduced. At some point (I didn't ask the specifics) the teeth will need to be ground off and new teeth with the original gullet depth will be ground on the blank.

When I started a thread looking for blades one responder said he was advised by his vendor he could use smaller diameter blades on some materials to reduce surface speeds and noise.

I believe the blade thickness is a function of the blade diameter, tooth configuration, base material, coating, and arbor size. The arbor on my machine is 32mm. All my blades are 2.5mm thick (or started out that size from the factory) regardless of tooth number or grind. I do see some 275mm blades that are as thin as 2.0mm and fit either a 32mm or 40mm arbor. The thinner ones are either M2 DMo5, or M35 Co5, and often titanium nitride (TIN) coated.

One thing that surprised me a bit during one of our conversations was that similar to bandsaws cold saws can perform well outside the accepted "normal" production speed, feed, and material ranges and still produce quality cuts. Just like the bandsaw the rules of thumb "preferred" tooth count or blade pressure can be bent if not in a high production setting. I've been known on occasion to be lazy and cut 3" aluminum round stock on the bandsaw with a 10/14 variable pitch blade. I set the feed light, and make sure the blade brush is doing its job. It may take a few extra seconds to make the cut, but it can be done with caution. I also noticed on the Cold Shop website there was a narrative about increasing the cutting speed of stainless 50% to 75% above the recommended in a "high production on a stable machine".

I think a talk would be in order with your vendor of choice. I choose The Cold Saw Shop on the recommendations of others on this site. I have not been disappointed with the information, service, and products I've purchased from them.

 

[Trboatworks]

Thanks- I am back in today tearing into this cleanup.
When I get this turning I will get a call in to the sharpening shop.

 

[Trboatworks]

It’s the little things- I got this done and wired in.
I am happy to see this turning right on the money at 27 rpm on low.
This has a 440 motor on it so stacked through a transformer and drive and I had to push the carrier frequency up a bit.
I can dial in the rpm as needed for 316.





It takes a bit to bring in old gear which has been sitting unused for years.
I should be cutting steel today.
This is just in time- I have three large stainless contracts lined up for this spring.
Thanks all.

 

[Mud]

Nice shop!
But way too clean...

 

[Ries]

I guess I am really spoiled- my main stainless saw is connected to a 12’ infeed table with 3 shelves below that holds 12’ stock, but its far end is up against a door so I can load longer pieces. I had a big job a few years ago where the size af stainless pipe I could get was random 24’ pieces, they all stuck outside for the first cut. The steel saw has a 20’ infeed table and 4 twenty foot shelves. Otherwise you spend far more time moving material and roller stands than cutting.

 

[ernieflash]

Moss- we need to bring you down to earth- I could dump one of the vertical saws and set this in the shop:

Ellis 1600 Dual Mitering Head Band Saw

Save BIG on the Ellis 1600 band saw. Popular for its dual mitering capability, extremely large cutting capacity, and rugged durability.

www.trick-tools.com

I had one of those Ellis Saws .In my shop that thing was bulletproof it cut whatever i put in even if it did not fit in vise
double angle miter is great with heavy stuff so you don't have to flip. and air cooled no mess .
if i ever need another saw thats what i would buy just my two cents

 

[Trboatworks]

Question-

Does brand or source for these cold saw blades make any material difference?
If I had to guess I would say there are European and Asian manufactured blanks which the shops are setting pitch on to order.

Should I pay the bit extra for the European blanks?

Or is it even true that say the Haberle shop uses different blanks the say Cold Saw .com?
I see Quinn or Kinkerder being offered.
I guess from what I am reading I am looking at cobalt blades- I need to call on the Kinkerder EC3000 and see what's up.

 

[Ries]

For many years now I have found it well worth it to buy from quinn.

 

[projectnut]

I have 3 different brand blades. The machine came with a Kinkelder blade, I purchased 2 Palmgren blades from an online vendor, and one from the Coldsaw Shop. All seem to work equally well. Keep in mind I'm not in a production situation, so in the neighborhood of100 cuts a day it about the maximum I've done with any one blade.

The Kinkelder that came with the machine was reground enough times to reduce the diameter to 315mm. I have no idea how long it was on the machine, but the machine was used in a high production situation. Looking at the condition of the machine when I bought it, I would guess it ran full time at least 1 shift a day. The company finally realized they needed a more automated machine and took this one out of service.

 

[Ries]

I bought my haberle used, in the 80s. At that time, Doringer, in gardena, was a haberle dealer, and my first ten or so blades came from them. Eventually I switched to Quinn. My guess is over the years I have had upwards of 20 blades. I always had employees who ran that saw, and we broke blades every year or two- it happens. The german blades dont seem to have had a significant quality difference from the quinns, to me. You need duplicates of every blade type, unless you can afford to be down a week or two while one is being shipped, sharpened, and shipped back.

 

[Trboatworks]

Well I gotta brag about this.

NIB Accu-Lube setup found for $180 at HGR (I am going MQL on the Haberle).



And…
The blades are back from shop plus some cutting oil samples in from Unist and gear oil for the saw is here.



It is damn surprising how much time it can take to get used gear up and running sometimes but I am waiting on stock from the polish shop to start work so no foul.