Forum suggestion: non professional machinist section

[Sparky45]

BTW; I'm a newb, couldn't possibly contribute to your knowledge base.

 

[eKretz]

BTW; I'm a newb, couldn't possibly contribute to your knowledge base.

Wasn't referring to you... I was referring to the other guy that mentioned wanting to come and contribute in his post. Should have worded that a little differently. And hence we arrive at probably the largest reason for disagreement and whatnot on the Internet. Text does not translate well to speech. It is not an equivalent form of communication without the nuance of expression and body language. It takes a lot more work to write in such a way as to get the same meanings across.

 

[CITIZEN F16]

Back to the original topic.

I only speak for myself as a newer forum member. Why not ask non-professionals to pay for the privilege of asking newbie questions? I have not yet figured out how the forum is supported financially. Even if the forum does not need support a symbolic donation requirement would separate the men from the boys.

If you don't know how it is supported you must be using an ad blocker, it has lots of ads.

 

[mhajicek]

I don't care what you do just do do it in my thread.

No one owns a thread, you don't get to pick and choose whose voices get to be heard.

you have hit on something here [that a lot of todays newcomers don't know nothing, don't care to learn anything, they just want us to be

their "how to make this thing, google assistant" because they are too lazy to look or think on their own]

They don't know enough to know what they don't know. After machining for about 30 years I feel that I finally know fairly well what I don't know on most machining related subjects. As such I feel it's my duty to share that with those who know less on the subject, rather than to chase them away and belittle them.

This also applies to the "I just got an engineering degree so machining should be easy" types, even though it's difficult to get things through their skull.

 

[eKretz]

No one owns a thread, you don't get to pick and choose whose voices get to be heard.

IMO, he's not trying to pick whose voices are being heard, but the subject being discussed. As the OP, "internet etiquette" allows him to remind folks to veer back toward his topic. He wasn't telling the guy to stay out of the thread completely, just to try to keep to the topic.

 

[plastikdreams]

No one owns a thread, you don't get to pick and choose whose voices get to be heard.



They don't know enough to know what they don't know. After machining for about 30 years I feel that I finally know fairly well what I don't know on most machining related subjects. As such I feel it's my duty to share that with those who know less on the subject, rather than to chase them away and belittle them.

This also applies to the "I just got an engineering degree so machining should be easy" types, even though it's difficult to get things through their skull.

I'm trying to keep the bickering and bullshit out of this thread. Is that too much to ask? I'm not looking to have it denigrate into a name calling shitshow like so many others become.

 

[reggie_obe]

A special sub-forum for those:
who need an instant answer or instant gratification in their lives;
too lazy to Google it;
who believe that reference/technical books are worthless and outdated.

 

[michiganbuck]

Nobody likes name-calling shitshow like so many others become. So when you get your dander riled try to limit the argument to about 4 nasty replies and call it done.

I think we get enough Newbee posts and mostly answer them near fair.

Rubbing a young guy's nose in it is not fair.

 

[aguaman99]

I see that you got and may agree with a few of my points. You may have missed some of the sarcasm ;-). The points about professionals were supposed to be humorous and about the question of who gets to decide "who is or isn't and based on what criteria". That's impossible to do successfully so it is (IMHO) an absurd suggestion even for those who THINK they are professionals ;-). Saying simply that because you get paid you should be considered a professional is a pretty ignorant way to asses another individuals qualifications and or their ability to contribute positively to a forum. Saying that you shouldn't contribute because you don't get paid is well.... kinda of elitist and dumb. I'm not a professional because I'm retired and don't get paid anymore (more sarcasm and some irony inserted there ;-). I see you inserted new levels/labels of professionalism to deal with this concern, now we have experts and non expert professionals. How long until non experts are given there own section? I personally do always read "a lot" before asking and agree "everyone" should do that. I read a lot of posts where so called "professionals" ask without reading as well. All the reasons you pointed out are why I usually don't post often. Its first and foremost out of respect for the professionals, also because I learn more by reading about the subject and the answers I seek are usually there somewhere. Sometimes the answers just aren't there and I have to tag on to an existing thread related to my question and ask what some here would consider a dumb question. You are also right, this forum was created and it's stated mission is to support professionals. So the real question is "should non professionals be allowed to post on this forum?". I say yes and it should be incumbent upon the individual "professionals" to choose what they engage with and what they don't. Otherwise go the other way and have fun trying to police that, maybe you could just sensor any misinformation ;-). In all seriousness its the double edged sword of public forums, if you want a place where you're safe from not having to glance at and then choose to read and respond or not, to any post my guess is you don't belong in a public forum setting. Ill say no more because i am not a professional and it will be interesting to see how the vote turns out.

 

[mhajicek]

If you don't know how it is supported you must be using an ad blocker, it has lots of ads.

Who doesn't use an ad blocker these days?

I'm trying to keep the bickering and bullshit out of this thread. Is that too much to ask? I'm not looking to have it denigrate into a name calling shitshow like so many others become.

Bickering and bullshit is the primary topic of this thread, particularly how people react to new people asking beginner questions.

 

[CarbideBob]

. He wasn't telling the guy to stay out of the thread completely, just to try to keep to the topic.

Sometimes threads go off topic for good reasons.
One could start a thread about a camera lens and have someone ask about etchants for carbide evaluation.
I think that is okay.
It is the fighting and pointless bickering or the "you are an idiot" that I find a waste of time and space. It seems that this has grown here over the years.
I have to smile and laugh at the "Buy a better machine". Perhaps a "real" machinist is one who can make good parts on a lessor, loose, and very sloppy low buck machine.
If one has a drill/mill and starting out or a three million dollar machine center and forty years in I will still try to give advice where I can.
Bob

 

[1yesca]

It doesn't matter if you are plastic or diamond or anything in-between...if you have something to offer

back to center one of the better statements[if you have something to offer] two things come to mind and there both from blazing saddles the first is were the one eyed hangman tells Bart that every one is equal in his eye and the other that comes to the real point is the part were there arguing over who gets to be part of the town and who is not welcome and they say that every one is except for the Irish so if and when this forum gets a non professional machinist section and i believe it will . just remember what CAT had to say [if you have something to offer]but if you just want to play my dicks bigger then yours then just move on . but i for one would welcome every one who has something to offer even the Irish

 

[plastikdreams]

I see that you got and may agree with a few of my points. You may have missed some of the sarcasm ;-). The points about professionals were supposed to be humorous and about the question of who gets to decide "who is or isn't and based on what criteria". That's impossible to do successfully so it is (IMHO) an absurd suggestion even for those who THINK they are professionals ;-). Saying simply that because you get paid you should be considered a professional is a pretty ignorant way to asses another individuals qualifications and or their ability to contribute positively to a forum. Saying that you shouldn't contribute because you don't get paid is well.... kinda of elitist and dumb. I'm not a professional because I'm retired and don't get paid anymore (more sarcasm and some irony inserted there ;-). I see you inserted new levels/labels of professionalism to deal with this concern, now we have experts and non expert professionals. How long until non experts are given there own section? I personally do always read "a lot" before asking and agree "everyone" should do that. I read a lot of posts where so called "professionals" ask without reading as well. All the reasons you pointed out are why I usually don't post often. Its first and foremost out of respect for the professionals, also because I learn more by reading about the subject and the answers I seek are usually there somewhere. Sometimes the answers just aren't there and I have to tag on to an existing thread related to my question and ask what some here would consider a dumb question. You are also right, this forum was created and it's stated mission is to support professionals. So the real question is "should non professionals be allowed to post on this forum?". I say yes and it should be incumbent upon the individual "professionals" to choose what they engage with and what they don't. Otherwise go the other way and have fun trying to police that, maybe you could just sensor any misinformation ;-). In all seriousness its the double edged sword of public forums, if you want a place where you're safe from not having to glance at and then choose to read and respond or not, to any post my guess is you don't belong in a public forum setting. Ill say no more because i am not a professional and it will be interesting to see how the vote turns out.

It doesn't matter if you are a professional or not, this thread is about people who aren't in the trade looking for help or info. It's an attempt to mitigate the hobby guys from posting in the wrong areas or on equipment that's frowned upon.

People are allowed to say whatever they want...and they do. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what their background is.

 

[eKretz]

Sometimes threads go off topic for good reasons.
One could start a thread about a camera lens and have someone ask about etchants for carbide evaluation.
I think that is okay.
It is the fighting and pointless bickering or the "you are an idiot" that I find a waste of time and space. It seems that this has grown here over the years.
I have to smile and laugh at the "Buy a better machine". Perhaps a "real" machinist is one who can make good parts on a lessor, loose, and very sloppy low buck machine.
If one has a drill/mill and starting out or a three million dollar machine center and forty years in I will still try to give advice where I can.
Bob

Yes, very true. One learns much from trying to make good parts on worn-out sloppy machines. Underpowered flimsy machines I think are a different story. That depends on what one is doing I suppose, but for serious machine shop work you need to be able to remove excess material quickly to make money, which the flimsy machines really can not do. And again as regards the OT I am caught out by typing things that are better said in person. Going off-topic is certainly not always bad. But going off-topic in an unhelpful manner is something that should be allowed to be steered back by OP.

The "professional" intent of this forum IMO was to allow those who do this work for a living to find a quick answer - or at least something to try when they have a problem - from other knowledgeable professionals so that they can get their work done as quickly and efficiently as possible. It was not intended to teach hobbyists or neophytes. I don't have a problem with helping those people but it can be bothersome to have to spend hours or more trying to get someone up to speed if they are clueless. Especially when they want to get their hackles up when told something won't work well, or argue about possible methods that will. Those are the ones I just stop responding to. If anyone else wants to deal with that, go right ahead.

 

[DDoug]

Another example of a newbie arguing, instead of simply following the existing rules:
J-Line / Logon 8” Shaper belt replacement

THIS ^^^ get's old real fast.

 

[plastikdreams]

Another example of a newbie arguing, instead of simply following the existing rules:
J-Line / Logon 8” Shaper belt replacement

THIS ^^^ get's old real fast.

You remind me of Ron white...I had the right to remain silent...but i didn't have the ability

 

[aguaman99]

3895742[/URL]]It doesn't matter if you are a professional or not, this thread is about people who aren't in the trade looking for help or info. It's an attempt to mitigate the hobby guys from posting in the wrong areas or on equipment that's frowned upon.

People are allowed to say whatever they want...and they do. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what their background is.

um… I get the issue and don’t necessarily disagree that dealing with it might very well be annoying. It’s the proposed solution that makes zero sense to me. Anyway as promised, I’m out and will let you wise folks determine your own fate. In the mean time I’ll continue to use the forum in a respectful and useful way.

 

[DDoug]

Here's some more for YOU:
Advice on automotive machining

 

[DDoug]

You remind me of Ron white...I had the right to remain silent...but i didn't have the ability

You are a moderator are you not ?

You just don't like actual facts, quoted too.

 

[reggie_obe]

It doesn't matter if you are a professional or not, this thread is about people who aren't in the trade looking for help or info. It's an attempt to mitigate the hobby guys from posting in the wrong areas or on equipment that's frowned upon.

People are allowed to say whatever they want...and they do. But at the end of the day it doesn't matter what their background is.

It's a full time job moderating hobby guys and moving their questions to the appropriate subforum.
Are you volunteering to do that for free?