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( FOUNDRY ) GATING SIZEING FOR A PATTEREN

miketig

Plastic
Joined
Jun 30, 2022
Anyone out there familiar with the sizing for a spru basin, runners, & gates, that would result in a good casting from a mounted pattern, I Made a mounted match pattern for a 18" straight edge, the base on is aprox. 1.25 "thick x 4" wide. The body of it is at its thinnest is 1/2" thick x 3" wide x 14" long with a 1/4" beading surrounding its perimeter witch is 3/8" thick. The handle is Crescent shaped 3" high x 6" long with the same design & thicknesses as the body. I roughly calculated it to being approximately 104 cubic inches in volume. The Idea of its design came from a camel back but it is defiantly different in shape. I have not made or mounted any of the gating system on it as of yet, any ideas would be appreciated.
Mike
 

sfriedberg

Diamond
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Location
Oregon, USA
You could also have a look at dgfoster's thread about the 18" straightedge/parallel casting he's currently developing. He's gotten to the point of test pours and the first couple of samples, and the thread has photos of some of the raw castings with risers and sprues attached.
 

miketig

Plastic
Joined
Jun 30, 2022
You could also have a look at dgfoster's thread about the 18" straightedge/parallel casting he's currently developing. He's gotten to the point of test pours and the first couple of samples, and the thread has photos of some of the raw castings with risers and sprues attached.
Thanks, how do I find his thread? My thoughts were to leave the riser and spru for the molder to manually place into the mold, and attach the spru basin, runner, and gate to the board. The pattern is being given to someone on the other side of the nation from me so its going to be first shot to get the gating system down properly. No place to experiment with any pours.
 

rustyironism

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Location
Lower Thumb, Michigan
Does the foundry you are going to use insist on the gates and runners be mounted to the board?
The molders may have made similar items and would cut the runners into the sand themselves.
Check with the foundry as they may have a pattern guy on site that could add them to your board for a small cost or no cost at all if your order is big enough or promises to be more than a one time pour..

Mike
 

miketig

Plastic
Joined
Jun 30, 2022
Does the foundry you are going to use insist on the gates and runners be mounted to the board?
The molders may have made similar items and would cut the runners into the sand themselves.
Check with the foundry as they may have a pattern guy on site that could add them to your board for a small cost or no cost at all if your order is big enough or promises to be more than a one time pour..

Mike
I have no idea where it will be molded, it is being given to someone he will decide where it will be molded, I can' t ask him where he will have it done do to the fact that it is a gift for him. I haven't glued it to the board yet, I am starting to consider going the route of a split pattern, My original thought was that it would be easier and quicker for the molder with the gates mounted.
Mike
 

Jim Christie

Titanium
Joined
Mar 14, 2007
Location
L'Orignal, Ontario Canada
The size of the flask used for the mold would a affect the height of the riser and shape of the pouring basin so you might as suggested contact the foundry doing the casting or leave the riser and gates to them to look after .
I'm only familiar with home made flasks so perhaps there are standard sizes for these in commercial foundries.
Jim
 

implmex

Titanium
Joined
Jun 23, 2002
Location
Vancouver BC Canada
Hi miketig:
You wrote:
"I haven't glued it to the board yet, I am starting to consider going the route of a split pattern, My original thought was that it would be easier and quicker for the molder with the gates mounted."

Yes it is, but only if you accommodate everything the molder needs in order to run it on his production line.
Foundry patterns mounted to a board with the gates and runner system are commonly called matchplates, and need to have some features standardized so they will fit the flasks the foundry is going to use and the handling system the foundry is going to use.
If they don't, they are more of a PITA to the foundry than they are worth.
So my instinct is to recommend making a split pattern unless you can speak with the foundry first and get the information you need to have in order to make it as trouble free for them as you can.

So make sure the drafts are good, that it is smoother than a baby's butt on the draw faces, that the pins do not bind, and that the parting surfaces are as flat as you can make them (and will stay that way).
Make sure the male pins are on the cope side of the pattern (assuming the cope side and the drag side are different), so the drag side of the pattern can lay flat on a molding board.
Put the fancier features on the drag side...it's way easier to pull a pattern out of the drag than to lift a whole cope off the pattern.
If they want to turn it into a quick and dirty matchplate, they can do that themselves, or hire a patternmaker to do it for them.
My guess is that unless they have many to do, they will be happier with a well made split pattern.

If you have little experience with patternmaking (it's a dying art), remember that the sand they use is both abrasive and moist...pattern lacquer is your friend if you want the pattern to survive for any length of time.
If you already know all these things, my apologies for re-stating the obvious.

Mark the pattern so they know which faces you prefer to gate into...let them decide how big the gates are going to be and where exactly they want to place them.
Ditto for the risers and the vents.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com
 

miketig

Plastic
Joined
Jun 30, 2022
Hi miketig:
You wrote:
"I haven't glued it to the board yet, I am starting to consider going the route of a split pattern, My original thought was that it would be easier and quicker for the molder with the gates mounted."

Yes it is, but only if you accommodate everything the molder needs in order to run it on his production line.
Foundry patterns mounted to a board with the gates and runner system are commonly called matchplates, and need to have some features standardized so they will fit the flasks the foundry is going to use and the handling system the foundry is going to use.
If they don't, they are more of a PITA to the foundry than they are worth.
So my instinct is to recommend making a split pattern unless you can speak with the foundry first and get the information you need to have in order to make it as trouble free for them as you can.

So make sure the drafts are good, that it is smoother than a baby's butt on the draw faces, that the pins do not bind, and that the parting surfaces are as flat as you can make them (and will stay that way).
Make sure the male pins are on the cope side of the pattern (assuming the cope side and the drag side are different), so the drag side of the pattern can lay flat on a molding board.
Put the fancier features on the drag side...it's way easier to pull a pattern out of the drag than to lift a whole cope off the pattern.
If they want to turn it into a quick and dirty matchplate, they can do that themselves, or hire a patternmaker to do it for them.
My guess is that unless they have many to do, they will be happier with a well made split pattern.

If you have little experience with patternmaking (it's a dying art), remember that the sand they use is both abrasive and moist...pattern lacquer is your friend if you want the pattern to survive for any length of time.
If you already know all these things, my apologies for re-stating the obvious.

Mark the pattern so they know which faces you prefer to gate into...let them decide how big the gates are going to be and where exactly they want to place them.
Ditto for the risers and the vents.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com
I am obviously communicating with a foundryman YES ? No need for apologies I do have a little patternmaking experience in me ( very little ) my dad was a molder and when I was younger I worked in the pattern shop at his work place for a few months about 30 or so years ago. It was a dying art then! I assume that there are only a few (shovels of sand ) left before the last few are layed to rest here in the US, I Think that they will survive more so in other countries.
Mike
 

rustyironism

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Location
Lower Thumb, Michigan
Hi miketig:
You wrote:
"I haven't glued it to the board yet, I am starting to consider going the route of a split pattern, My original thought was that it would be easier and quicker for the molder with the gates mounted."

Yes it is, but only if you accommodate everything the molder needs in order to run it on his production line.
Foundry patterns mounted to a board with the gates and runner system are commonly called matchplates, and need to have some features standardized so they will fit the flasks the foundry is going to use and the handling system the foundry is going to use.
If they don't, they are more of a PITA to the foundry than they are worth.
So my instinct is to recommend making a split pattern unless you can speak with the foundry first and get the information you need to have in order to make it as trouble free for them as you can.

So make sure the drafts are good, that it is smoother than a baby's butt on the draw faces, that the pins do not bind, and that the parting surfaces are as flat as you can make them (and will stay that way).
Make sure the male pins are on the cope side of the pattern (assuming the cope side and the drag side are different), so the drag side of the pattern can lay flat on a molding board.
Put the fancier features on the drag side...it's way easier to pull a pattern out of the drag than to lift a whole cope off the pattern.
If they want to turn it into a quick and dirty matchplate, they can do that themselves, or hire a patternmaker to do it for them.
My guess is that unless they have many to do, they will be happier with a well made split pattern.

If you have little experience with patternmaking (it's a dying art), remember that the sand they use is both abrasive and moist...pattern lacquer is your friend if you want the pattern to survive for any length of time.
If you already know all these things, my apologies for re-stating the obvious.

Mark the pattern so they know which faces you prefer to gate into...let them decide how big the gates are going to be and where exactly they want to place them.
Ditto for the risers and the vents.

Cheers

Marcus
www.implant-mechanix.com
www.vancouverwireedm.com
Pattern making is indeed a dying art, sadly.
I am learning by trial and error, heavy on the error.

But working closely with whichever foundry that you use can make it much easier.
Every foundry has a different set up, different knowledges and workers.

One may only have automatic machines that pack sand on specifically sized boards, others may need a certain size of board to fit the flasks they own, or using resin bonded sand, many places require tapered sides on the board so that no flask is needed and it can be any size that fits the pattern.

Here is one that I was pretty happy with until I found out that the shellac I carefully layered on was not compatible with the resin in the sand and would not release.....
Mike
 

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miketig

Plastic
Joined
Jun 30, 2022
Thanks guys,
I ended up going with the split pattern, I just finished the first cote and boy she is pretty! I am going to test how it pulls tomorrow and make any adjustments ( I don't think any will be needed but you never know) I went heavy on a lot of the drafts but there are a few fine details that I am hoping they wont get lost in the sand. We shall see! FUN! FUN! FUN!
MikeTig
 

miketig

Plastic
Joined
Jun 30, 2022
Pattern making is indeed a dying art, sadly.
I am learning by trial and error, heavy on the error.

But working closely with whichever foundry that you use can make it much easier.
Every foundry has a different set up, different knowledges and workers.

One may only have automatic machines that pack sand on specifically sized boards, others may need a certain size of board to fit the flasks they own, or using resin bonded sand, many places require tapered sides on the board so that no flask is needed and it can be any size that fits the pattern.

Here is one that I was pretty happy with until I found out that the shellac I carefully layered on was not compatible with the resin in the sand and would not release.....
Mike
Hi Guys,
Do any of you have the capability of making up pattern label tags ? Way back when, I remember there being a label tag machine that would make raised print for labeling the patterns. What I need is three words printed to fit in an very small space on a the pattern, the space being oval
(( two half rounds at the ends connected top and bottom with a straight line)) is no larger 3/4" tall x 1 3/8 long at the workable flat surface. The print needs to be in capital letters small enough to fit in that space. If so would any be interested in entertain the thought of sending some by mail and at what expense would it be ? Or if any of you have any ideas of where very small raised letters could be obtained ? I already search the internet with little success, I have found some small letters on amazon but I do not think the raised part is going to show up in the casting.
Mike
 
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johnoder

Diamond
Joined
Jul 16, 2004
Location
Houston, TX USA
Hi Guys,
Do any of you have the capability of making up pattern label tags ? Way back when, I remember there being a label tag machine that would make raised print for labeling the patterns. What I need is three words printed to fit in an very small space on a the pattern, the space being oval
(( two half rounds at the ends connected top and bottom with a straight line)) is no larger 3/4" tall x 1 3/8 long at the workable flat surface. The print needs to be in capital letters small enough to fit in that space. If so would any be interested in entertain the thought of sending some by mail and at what expense would it be ? Or if any of you have any ideas of where very small raised letters could be obtained ? I already search the internet with little success, I have found some small letters on amazon but I do not think the raised part is going to show up in the casting.
Mike
Freeman might be still in biz


They have / had every thing you can imagine for pattern making
old phone was 1-800-792-1047
 
Last edited:

sfriedberg

Diamond
Joined
Oct 14, 2010
Location
Oregon, USA
FWIW, Denis Foster was delayed for a bit, waiting precisely for someone to 3D print some lettering to go into his latest pattern. A 3D printer would be a much more versatile workshop addition than a Dymo labeller (or its metal strip equivalent).
 

miketig

Plastic
Joined
Jun 30, 2022
FWIW, Denis Foster was delayed for a bit, waiting precisely for someone to 3D print some lettering to go into his latest pattern. A 3D printer would be a much more versatile workshop addition than a Dymo labeller (or its metal strip equivalent).
I have improvised, ordered some dog tags, I think it should work perfectly
 








 
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