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FP 1 Dismantle

poyo

New member
So I started taking apart my so long waiting FP1, first surprise already hit me early, seems like a broken oil splash guard. Not sure if I can find a replacement for it, probably will try to 3d print and paint it with some 2k paint. Otherwise it seems to be in a good shape, bronze bushings are fine, ways are without any visible damage.

IMG_20210729_164534.jpg

some more photos

IMG_20210729_163519.jpgIMG_20210729_174522.jpgIMG_20210729_165204.jpgIMG_20210729_181827.jpg
 

poyo

New member
Also found some grease here, probably should be there since could not find how oil could reach there.
IMG_20210729_162900.jpg

all seems good here too
IMG_20210729_175119.jpg
 

ballen

Active member
Was grease used to lubricate the ways?

Franz Singer in Germany might be able to provide a used splash guard at reasonable cost. Email him a photo or two and the machine type and serial number.
 
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poyo

New member
No, grease was used only inside the vertical head, the rest was oiled(which has turned into a slimy substance). I already contacted to Franz and price was a bit too spicy for my taste :) I can probably get it machined for half the price if not less. I'll still go with my initial idea of printing it. Worse case I can use my design for casting it. I'll post more photos as go forward with investigation.
 

ballen

Active member
I already contacted Franz and the price was a bit too spicy for my taste :).

If you tell him that you can not afford it and that a used part is OK, he might find something less expensive. No harm in asking.
 

poyo

New member
IMG_20210729_181828.jpg
its not a very complex part to produce, worse case I'll turn it from a round stock and weld two tapped pieces for screwing it in place.

another question, at the end of the bar there is a thread but there was no nut, was there supposed to be one?

IMG_20210729_163346.jpg
 

Alan

New member
poyo, if I am reading your photo correctly, that is the bevel gear on the input shaft for the vertical head, if so, then yes, there needs to be a nut and tab locking washer, if that was missing then it would raise questions as to what else has gone on with the machine considering the splash guard on the other end of the drive shaft has also been damaged. A parts manual would be very useful in your quest to repair this. Alan.
 

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poyo

New member
Hello Alan,

thank for the info, I started from the top and I will see what else is waiting for me on my quest. Machine is from 1936-38 so pretty old and had seen many owners I'd believe. The two problems I faced so far will be the only ones(I hope). Seems like no one or at least in last couple of decades had did anything with the rest of the machine. Broken oil guard was probably because someone stashed the vertical had somewhere badly or dropped a bit harder than supposed to on a flat surface, and since it sticks out quite a bit, that was the first thing that got the damage, and with that I can live with. Last time I did such cleaning on my lathe, I did the mistake of taking apart everything at once, now I go section by section, I have the y axis out and I'll do the necessary work there and move forward with the gearbox and the other axis's.

Do you happen to have such manual? For the MK3 series?

Regards,
Poyraz
 

poyo

New member
Also, yesterday I decided to make the missing nut, then realized I don't have 56T gears in my set, and those are the ones I need for 1mm pitch... So I ended up ordering raw Mod1 56T gears that I have to turn to final width and enlarge the bore, cut the slot... so indeed seems like I am on an adventurous quest :D
 

Alan

New member
Hi Poyraz,
Sorry no manual for your era machine as mine is from the early 60's, however a forum poster under the name of "Wrench" did produce a DVD many years ago with a lot of Deckel info on it, maybe be worthwhile seeing if its still available.
Based on my machine, behind the bevel gear on the horizontal drive is a tribach arrangement for holding the bearing in, which I presume is for adjusting bearing pre load as there are 3 set screws as well as the 3 hold down screws, also there are shims in there, again for adjusting clearance between the horizontal and vertical head bevel gears. On mine these bevel gears get lubrication from oil flow through the upper bearings in the vertical head, so the earlier comment about grease there would raise a flag. In one of the photos attached you can see the nut and lock washer for holding the bevel gear on.
Yes, its always interesting to see what handiwork others may have done prior to your ownership, also the Deckel factory seems to have incorporated changes during production that were not documented to the outside world. Good luck with the restoration they are a very versatile machine and worth the effort as an attached photo shows, repairing a dough mixer paddle. Alan.
 

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rimcanyon

Active member
Also, yesterday I decided to make the missing nut, then realized I don't have 56T gears in my set, and those are the ones I need for 1mm pitch... So I ended up ordering raw Mod1 56T gears that I have to turn to final width and enlarge the bore, cut the slot... so indeed seems like I am on an adventurous quest :D

Hi Poyo,

a few years ago I wrote a Perl program to compute metric pitch with various combinations of non-standard end gears on a Monarch 10EE lathe. Here is a link to the program. You would have to modify it to adapt it to your lathe, since it models the ratios built in to the gearbox as it searches for good combinations for metric pitches.

-Dave

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...ric-gear-calculations-99854/?highlight=metric
 

poyo

New member
Hi Poyo,

a few years ago I wrote a Perl program to compute metric pitch with various combinations of non-standard end gears on a Monarch 10EE lathe. Here is a link to the program. You would have to modify it to adapt it to your lathe, since it models the ratios built in to the gearbox as it searches for good combinations for metric pitches.

-Dave

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...ric-gear-calculations-99854/?highlight=metric

Hello Dave, great thnx for the code. I'll see if I can use it. Though my lathe is metric, so once I got the missing gears(56t was the only one I was missing) should be okay




Hi Poyraz,
Sorry no manual for your era machine as mine is from the early 60's, however a forum poster under the name of "Wrench" did produce a DVD many years ago with a lot of Deckel info on it, maybe be worthwhile seeing if its still available.
Based on my machine, behind the bevel gear on the horizontal drive is a tribach arrangement for holding the bearing in, which I presume is for adjusting bearing pre load as there are 3 set screws as well as the 3 hold down screws, also there are shims in there, again for adjusting clearance between the horizontal and vertical head bevel gears. On mine these bevel gears get lubrication from oil flow through the upper bearings in the vertical head, so the earlier comment about grease there would raise a flag. In one of the photos attached you can see the nut and lock washer for holding the bevel gear on.
Yes, its always interesting to see what handiwork others may have done prior to your ownership, also the Deckel factory seems to have incorporated changes during production that were not documented to the outside world. Good luck with the restoration they are a very versatile machine and worth the effort as an attached photo shows, repairing a dough mixer paddle. Alan.

Yea mine looks way different, believe there was not even a lock washer in the original, just a nut for securing it. I designed oil splash guard and will 3d print it for test fit, if all goes well I'll ask a friend to cast it for me.

Here are some renderings for the print, once I prepare it for casting I'll have to add some draft angle so it can be pulled out of the sand.

export1.jpgexport2.jpgesport3.jpgexport4.jpg
 

poyo

New member
Still having troubles getting the bevel gear out, without the nut in place I thought it will just slide off.. Any idea?
 

jim rozen

Active member
poyo, if I am reading your photo correctly, that is the bevel gear on the input shaft for the vertical head,...

I believe it is the gear that mates to the one you mention above. It probably is driven by the horizontal spindle on the machine itself? One can see where the nut used to bear on the face of the gear, somebody has tried to remove it before, and hit the same roadblock that's apparent now.

Also: an incredibly cool amazing little machine.
 

Alan

New member
Jim, I think you are correct on looking at the photo again and see the knockout plug where there's access to the retaining nuts, also bearing in mind his machine is 30 odd years older than mine, so plenty of possible changes along the way.

Poyo, on what is the bevel gear located, some more photos may help. Thanks, Alan.
 

poyo

New member
I found the section cut from the manual from 1938 and it matches the design of my machine so yea machine was produced around that era.

2021-08-02_08-49-59.jpg

I have to back to workshop to make better photos of the whole thing but in a nutshell its driven by the horizontal head and transfers the motion to the vertical head with the spiral bevel gear. And I am trying to disassemble the whole thing because there is a broken screw halfway in and I'd like to remove it without damaging anything(or any more damage).

IMG_20210729_163346.jpg
 

Alan

New member
Poyo,
Ok if its the bevel gear at the end of horizontal drive shaft then its as per photo below, my earlier photos are of this gear removed from the shaft and the only thing holding it on is the nut and drive is transferred via the keyway. Behind the gear is the tribach which holds the outer race of bearing in place, yours maybe different. Under normal circumstances the gear should slide out once the nut is off, is there evidence of corrosion ? as I think I see some on the second photo of your first post. Eric thanks for the manual link. Alan.
 

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