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Gallmeyer & Livingston # 10 grinder -- Seeking information

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
. . . you can get a couple GREAT wheels in that one's place. CBN for steel and diamond for carbide. Don't use them in place of each other. Diamond for carbide, CBN for steel.

White, blue and pink AO wheels are pretty good for HSS too. For carbide, diamond is pretty much all I use.

Nearly a year ago there was a thread for addressing way surfaces on a lathe, we were spit balling some ideas. One fella mentioned CBN wheels, and I didn't know what they were, I got distracted, and never looked them up. His comment:
monarch 60 series ideas

After your comment I did a little bit of looking, found this thread:
Anyone using CBN wheels on a bench grinder?

In that thread there was a retailer listed, though googling around I have others too. The one from that thread:
CBN Grinding Wheels| D-Way Tools

I really like the low heat and low dust aspect of those that I'm reading.

Question, some say no dressing needed, others dress them. Supposedly they are really well balanced. I'm having trouble believing not dressing them. Even if the fit to arbor is fairly close or snug, do they come in that true ? Could you surface grind with them ?
 

m-lud

Stainless
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Location
Missouri
The air bearing fixture Buck mentioned is just a smooth round spindle that can slide in and out as well as rotate freely. It is lapped to a very close slip fit inside its housing and an air fitting introduces air between the two, in which the air acts as a fluid bearing. They rotate very roundly and move very freely. They usually have various sized adapters or collets in the end of the spindle to hold tool shanks. They are used with a finger rest for regrinding ODs of end mills and reamers, etc.

Here's a demo vid of one brand:

https://youtu.be/XzPl-Mm0z4M

Some air spindles as you've asked about may be okay for ID grinding. Mainly that depends on the individual grinder. They need to have good bearings, rigid mounting, good balance and preferably short, stiff grinding tooling.

eKretz
Thats slick! I hadn't found Darex yet.
I realized that Sioux city is an oversized die grinder. I believe it was part of a router. Any bearing vibration will show in the grind. Speed is also an issue. I wasn't thinking about that.
I understand the part of depending on who is using it.
I'm sure you have to get a feel for your precision grinder. A spindle that's driven by a belt isn't going to pick up the vibrations of the drive. As in Monarch's 10ee belt drive.
That air router 's bearings are good but don't have any comparison to that air bearing on U-Tube. I 'll watch for one on line.
I can work on getting setup for drill bits and endmills to get a feel for grinding and setup.
I'm sure you can see, hear and feel when it's grinding right. I hope to get there.
Running a sixty-foot-long folding machine you get tuned in to the point of being on the stop button within seconds. of something wrong. Some guys never get there. They work harder
I'm still working at Machine tools

Thanks for pointing out those air bearings. I was getting hits on CNC bearings.
I'm fighting with my lousy search engine
In looking at accessories on ebay I see its cluttered with lookalike Imports. Sad but there are still some brand name pieces.
Thanks Mike
 

eKretz

Diamond; Mod Squad
Joined
Mar 27, 2005
Location
Northwest Indiana, USA
Nearly a year ago there was a thread for addressing way surfaces on a lathe, we were spit balling some ideas. One fella mentioned CBN wheels, and I didn't know what they were, I got distracted, and never looked them up. His comment:
monarch 60 series ideas

After your comment I did a little bit of looking, found this thread:
Anyone using CBN wheels on a bench grinder?

In that thread there was a retailer listed, though googling around I have others too. The one from that thread:
CBN Grinding Wheels| D-Way Tools

I really like the low heat and low dust aspect of those that I'm reading.

Question, some say no dressing needed, others dress them. Supposedly they are really well balanced. I'm having trouble believing not dressing them. Even if the fit to arbor is fairly close or snug, do they come in that true ? Could you surface grind with them ?

There are different varieties; the ones from the D-Way link are electroplated wheels, so they only have a thin layer of abrasive that is held in place by metal plating like a DMT or similar diamond sharpening plate - they cannot be dressed. Once they are dull, they can either be sent for stripping and replating or tossed in the trash and replaced. Probably not great for surface grinding, it would be difficult to impossible and time consuming to get them trued up well enough. And when they dull they're toast.

On a surface grinder you'd probably want to go with resin bond, which can be dressed like a resin bond diamond wheel with the molybdenum stick method or a brake controlled truing/dressing device. Check eBay for Poltava wheels, I think they're Ukrainian made maybe? They are pretty decent and not too crazy hard on the wallet.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Good to check your work head taper. It was not uncommon for TC grinder makers to provide a special fixture (not to the book). Or something may be re-built to a different or error taper.
Some tapers are close so a mistake can be made.

*Do let us know what you find in the cabinet ..perhaps take a photo.

Q: [Is it considered a universal cutter grinder.] That is a hard call because an OD grinder is so much like a Tc grinder.. likely having a tilt work head makes it a TC grinder...also common is to have a reversing direction wheel head.

* Good to jog start any/every grinder spindle.

Ref: Dimensions of Standard Tapers - LittleMachineShop.com

electroplated diamond wheel have little thickness if diamond. eBay wheels can be a bargain but stay away from electroplated.
I put on an OD use diamond wheel to a very close/ little run out at mounting..Good to have less than .002 at first run, make it very tight on the mount, and keep it on that same mount till wore out.
Often you can grind dress it with a piece of mild steel not having a brake dresser. Diamond wheels often stay true with proper use.

Face edge use diamond wheels self dress but should go back on the same mount lined up with a mount-up mark. Good to use the same mount for all of your often changed diamond wheels, so they all start truer and start.

Diamond face wheel should run less than .002 at start even if you need to shim them at the back, and best left on their mount. I mount-up mark all my wheels as it takes little time and makes for less dressing.

I think it is good to wear a decent mask when grinding...and try to make the sparks go away from you.
Even wood power saw cutting wood the/any stuff in your lungs can be bad IMHO.
 

m-lud

Stainless
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Location
Missouri
Good to check your work head taper. It was not uncommon for TC grinder makers to provide a special fixture (not to the book). Or something may be re-built to a different or error taper.
Some tapers are close so a mistake can be made.

Do let us know what you find in the cabinet ..perhaps take a photo.

Q: [Is it considered a universal cutter grinder.] That is a hard call because an OD grinder is so much like a Tc grinder.. likely having a tilt work head makes it a TC grinder...also common is to have a reversing direction wheel head.

* Good to jog start any/every grinder spindle.

Ref: Dimensions of Standard Tapers - LittleMachineShop.com

electroplated diamond wheel have little thickness if diamond. eBay wheels can be a bargain but stay away from electroplated.

I'm going out there tomorrow and will get photos of anything new and better photos of all the adjustments and dials. The workhead does tilt.
The grinding spindle has a second pully for speed change.
Buck:
Earlier you said to get the pully diameters written down somewhere close. I know that's for calculating speed.
Did cutter grinders come with an assortment of pulleys?
I'm sure variable speed came along at some point. Rheostat control?
I suspect figuring surface speed of the grinding wheel comes into play somewhere here.

Is doing cleanup and lubrication should I disassemble and clean the grinding wheel spindle. In reading manuals I saw that the spindle is preloaded. May have been on the Cincinnati #2. I'm not concerned about getting it back together as it was but don't want to do unnecessary work.
It may be able to get a flushed out with partial disassembly.
I count turns on bearing nuts when spring loaded and taking apart something like that and am familiar with adjusting endplay if needed, without making bearings heat up.

I will check the workhead taper.
Thanks Mike
 
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dkmc

Diamond
I've owned my Norton T&C grinder since 1982, I don't really need it until I NEED it about 1 to 3 times a year it seems. The 5C motorized workhead has come in handy at times. Just used the machine last week to make a bit for the BP slotting head for broaching a Keyway.

IMG_20220201_175209.jpg

IMG_20220201_175349.jpg
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
Good to make a 12* drop slant v-block bolted to an angle plate set at 30* to bump a drill to a wheel. just with eyeball that makes a decent drill point grinder. Yes roll the heal by hand with the bench grinder. A facet point drill point works very well and a hand roll at the heal is easy.

Also end grinding end mills is an easy task.. the simple way is to stand them up in a v block. tickle off .030(or what) then grind away to just grind away the flat. only the corner edge needs to be close, most of the web is not very important for most milling..

Plus a TC grinder left with a parting wheel makes a quick accurate cut-off.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
I want a notification when that book is ready!

I just started keeping track of my TC grinder stuff. Likely that will take another bunch of pages.

TC grinders are so very handy. I think a lot of toolmakers fear them because of thinking that all the angles have to be precise when most are approximate/eyeball/pick-up existing and just one or none has to be exact.
Much like lathe HSS tool bits, most of the angles are ballpark, and just a few (if any) are fussy.

Just with moderate skills such as step tools are easy.

Guess I should sketch some simple fixtures, perhaps make a few.
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
Still have my Grand Rapids 460(if you are searching for any thing include the Grand Rapids name). They were the class of the field.

After thinking about your comment, it dawned on me to search under the "Grand Rapids" company name instead of Gallmeyer & Livingston. Found a "last chance" listing on hgr:
Used Grand Rapids Grand Rapids 10 Tool Grinder | HGR Industrial Surplus

And a previous auction listing for another:
Enlisted Auctions

A fair amount of pics on both links, if Mike needs to compare something. I borrowed a few to post here for reference:

525.jpg 526.jpg 527.jpg 528.jpg 529.jpg
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
After thinking about your comment, it dawned on me to search under the "Grand Rapids" company name instead of Gallmeyer & Livingston. Found a "last chance" listing on hgr:
Used Grand Rapids Grand Rapids 10 Tool Grinder | HGR Industrial Surplus

And a previous auction listing for another:
Enlisted Auctions

A fair amount of pics on both links, if Mike needs to compare something. I borrowed a few to post here for reference:

View attachment 341511 View attachment 341512 View attachment 341513 View attachment 341514 View attachment 341515

I would likely call and make an offer if I needed another grinder. 3 or 500 might buy it. With having a good wheel head spindle it is a good deal at $700.

Some/many of the old school TC grinders can become a decent surface grinder with adding a spindle nose extension and a bigger dial on the down feed.
I don't like the top side down-feed handwheel, some G&Ls had an offset down feed, that was more convent.

I ran a Cincinnati surface grinder. It was factory-made and was like a #2 TC grinder but had a long spindle tube that had an extra set of bearings at the out end. It was an Ok Sg at best because of the small up/down dial. If it had a bigger dial there it likely it would have been one of the top grinders. Fast up/down is best for a TC grinder, but highly accurate up/down is best for a surface grinder.

And the Cinci verticle hand wheel was off to the side.. you had to bend over to see the numbers.
 

m-lud

Stainless
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Location
Missouri
After thinking about your comment, it dawned on me to search under the "Grand Rapids" company name instead of Gallmeyer & Livingston. Found a "last chance" listing on hgr:
Used Grand Rapids Grand Rapids 10 Tool Grinder | HGR Industrial Surplus

And a previous auction listing for another:
Enlisted Auctions

A fair amount of pics on both links, if Mike needs to compare something. I borrowed a few to post here for reference:

View attachment 341511 View attachment 341512 View attachment 341513 View attachment 341514 View attachment 341515

wow Again changing those key words got a hit. Thanks

I was just going through some drawings on No. 3-6 universal grinders. I believe earlier models of mine. There is a lot that appears identical to mine.
In drawing 1005-2 the workhead shows a number 50 milling machine taper on one side and a number 12 Brown and Sharp on the other side.
The 1005-2 drawing is about 3/4 down the page. I believe I have those same tapers on my workhead. It's a place to start.
26216.pdf (vintagemachinery.org)

I may give HGR a call tomorrow. The pair would be good with older machinery. Thats a parts price but both may be working
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
My grinder serial no is 10076 and HGR is 10212. I may offer 500

Where cost and floor space weren't killing me, I'd love to have two. Build my favorite first. Now I'm well versed in the machine and got my pieces sorted out. Build the next if possible and sell it.
 

m-lud

Stainless
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Location
Missouri
Where cost and floor space weren't killing me, I'd love to have two. Build my favorite first. Now I'm well versed in the machine and got my pieces sorted out. Build the next if possible and sell it.

Im having second thoughts on the Gallmeyer Livingston in Ohio. I'll still call and talk to them and if they will make it to good to pass up Ill go. It's about an eight-hour drive. I could pull a 16-hour run, there and back but I would spend the night.
My wife grew up in Cincinnati. I would take her along and explore a little and stick my toe in Lake Erie. Highway 70 to Colombus Oh. And hyw 71 north to Euclid oh. All interstate.

I went out and opened the cabinet on the Gallmeyer#10 and wasn't disappointed Not a jackpot but not bad
A three and a four-jaw chuck still in the box. I'm going to get some oil on them right away.
I have some more photos, but the computer is dragging azz downloading from phone

Is that a brown and sharp collet? 5C maybe?
It has a keyway that matches a key in the workhead.
I didn't have my glasses to read the maker of the chucks. :rolleyes5: Chucks could be Imports

Out of time but will post more photos

A chuck that plugs right in. I will need a short draw bar/ tube and a hand wheel.
20220208_101442.jpg




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20220208_101454.jpg
 

m-lud

Stainless
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Location
Missouri
Looking from drive end at the end of the collet.

View attachment 341614[/ATTACH]

Collet socket in workhead
20220208_102104.jpg

20220208_102205.jpg

Looking up at the underside from inside the cabinet. Just held the phone hoping to get something. I don't bend over that far.:D
20220208_102601.jpg

If the photo links don't work I'll have to fix it later. I have to go

20220208_101547.jpg
 
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michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
You can put the cup wheel at the other spindle end and off-slip the belt then cant the work head 1 or 2* concave to sharpen end mill ends, turn the work head the other way to about 28-29, and end sharpen drills with the wheel height to give about 12* clearance. To go back to work head center point to the tail center point.

Running a sharpening service having two machines might be good with one machine left straight and the other for work head and between centers tools.
Just for your own sharpening two machines may be overkill.

Modern CNC TC grinders can make and resharpen all kinds of carbide cutters using standard catalog grinding wheels so competing with that with conventional machines is very difficult.
 

m-lud

Stainless
Joined
Sep 4, 2016
Location
Missouri
5C collet spindle maybe?

I do believe you are correct. 5c will work well for me. Looking at those 4" chucks online 5C appears to be the only collet type made integral to the chuck or with the chuck plate.
 
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