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Generator to run tig welder

Portable Welder

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Location
Milan, MI
I just bought a 17500 watt generator that puts out approximately 78 amps, however the biggest plug is a 50 amp 230v plug and another one is a 30 amp 230v plug.
Looking at the electrical diagram both hots are on the same line, so I want to join them back together so I can give my Dynasty 300 the 61 amps to run at full capacity.

My thoughts are also to use it to run my welding shop since I just experienced 5 days without power.

I wire my machines in the shop all the time as well as having to wire them when I take them out to jobsites, so I know not to kill myself, I also know how to not over load the generator as well and both plugs are on circuit breakers as well.

I'm also thinking that once my amp load exceed 60 amps that the 30 amp breaker will trip which would give me enough power to run some lights and one welder.
Any thoughts of why I shouldn't tie my phases together ?
 

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
I just bought a 17500 watt generator that puts out approximately 78 amps, however the biggest plug is a 50 amp 230v plug and another one is a 30 amp 230v plug.
Looking at the electrical diagram both hots are on the same line, so I want to join them back together so I can give my Dynasty 300 the 61 amps to run at full capacity.

My thoughts are also to use it to run my welding shop since I just experienced 5 days without power.

I wire my machines in the shop all the time as well as having to wire them when I take them out to jobsites, so I know not to kill myself, I also know how to not over load the generator as well and both plugs are on circuit breakers as well.

I'm also thinking that once my amp load exceed 60 amps that the 30 amp breaker will trip which would give me enough power to run some lights and one welder.
Any thoughts of why I shouldn't tie my phases together ?

I would put the welder on the 50 amp plug and see if it does trip the genset's breaker.
 

Big B

Diamond
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Michigan, USA
You should be fine just using the 50 amp outlet. I run my weld shop on a pair of 30 amp 240 volt breakers and have never tripped them yet. But then again the most amps that I usually run is around 150. The voltage at the electrode is much lower than the 240 coming into the welder so 300 amps at your electrode is a lot less at 240 side.

I'm with DD. Try it with the 50 and see what happens. I've read that you can burn out some generators by trying to tie two legs together.

With all that said I have a 5K Coleman generator that I used for years to power our house during power outages by back feeding into my welder outlet. It has the small 240 volt outlets and I did tie them together after pulling it out and seeing that they were wired together already. It just took some load off of the small plugs.
 

Portable Welder

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Location
Milan, MI
digger doug, I was tig welding some 3/8" aluminum plate to 1" x 3" solid aluminum bar stock when the power went out, so I plugged the welder into my Trail Blazer that puts out 10,000 watts power, roughly 42 amps 240v, the best I could run was 200 amps and the Dynasty went into a help code, to get the car hauler out of my shop, I heated it up with my rose bud and then finished the weld.
So 200 amps was the best she had to give.
 

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
digger doug, I was tig welding some 3/8" aluminum plate to 1" x 3" solid aluminum bar stock when the power went out, so I plugged the welder into my Trail Blazer that puts out 10,000 watts power, roughly 42 amps 240v, the best I could run was 200 amps and the Dynasty went into a help code, to get the car hauler out of my shop, I heated it up with my rose bud and then finished the weld.
So 200 amps was the best she had to give.

Tell it to someone who gives a crap about helping you.
 

Portable Welder

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Location
Milan, MI
digger doug, theres nothing I said for you to be disrespectful, I was just giving you feed back about what happened when trying to power off a 10,000 watt generator.
Please dont respond to anything I post if your going to act like this !
 

Portable Welder

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 9, 2015
Location
Milan, MI
Big B. Thats what I did as well, I kill my 200 amp main and back feed through my 50 amp welder plugs.

50 amps will run everything but my shear and press brake.
 

Big B

Diamond
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Michigan, USA
digger doug, theres nothing I said for you to be disrespectful, I was just giving you feed back about what happened when trying to power off a 10,000 watt generator.
Please dont respond to anything I post if your going to act like this !

Don't mind DD. He's just an ass____ that can't seem to get along with anyone. He's got over 22,000 posts and most of them are negative no help posts.
 

memphisjed

Stainless
Joined
Jan 21, 2019
Location
Memphis
are you running the trailblazer with idle function or with no idle? If it is not tripping its internal breakers it is not giving 50 or 100 amps. The idle function has to be set to off to be able to give amps from go.
 

thermite

Diamond
Big B. Thats what I did as well, I kill my 200 amp main and back feed through my 50 amp welder plugs.

50 amps will run everything but my shear and press brake.

That's even legal ... so long as.. you use the "transfer" lockout plates made for the purpose.

- They are DIRT CHEAP.. compared to a "generator panel', a manual or an "Automatic" transfer switch.

- They don't take long to install.

- They might LOOK clumsy, but don't really even take long to switch, one mode to the other.

Most major load center makers have them for their goods. They aren't hard to find if one but looks.

My panel uses this one:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...erlock-Kit-QOCGK2C/203046553#product-overview

Obsolete panel? Search anyway. ebay might have it.

It can keep you out of a lot more expensive trouble than it's modest price!

Don't wanna?

No foul.

Just take your emergency load(s) directly to the gen set ... and stay TF OFF of the utility mains connected system.

Completely.

THIS.. is NOT one of the code provisions one casually fudges even briefly.
Powerco's are SERIOUS about backfeed violations. They need to be serious.

"Good intentions" or "I would never.." or "I know better than to.." aren't good enough.

Hardware has to prove and enforce it.

Be happy it is cheap.

Be happy you CAN easily stay off their wire.
 

thermite

Diamond
digger doug, I was tig welding some 3/8" aluminum plate to 1" x 3" solid aluminum bar stock when the power went out, so I plugged the welder into my Trail Blazer that puts out 10,000 watts power, roughly 42 amps 240v, the best I could run was 200 amps and the Dynasty went into a help code, to get the car hauler out of my shop, I heated it up with my rose bud and then finished the weld.
So 200 amps was the best she had to give.

You should look again at your gen set's manual.

Those are only "convenience" outlets built-in/onto most gen sets once you get above around 7500 Watts, 10 kVA and up almost always. 50 A is nominally 12 kVA @ 240 VAC.

Ex: My 10 kVA is lower-rated than your 17.5 kVA but has a 55A Circuit breaker, so would surely support more than your 50A just for connectivity. Sea-level rating SI 12 kVBA, and 15 kVA is known, proven, sustainable. But 17.5 kVA is NOT.

Most "serious" gen sets also have a set of split lugs meant for heavier wire.

All you have to do is find it and use it.

Whether you run #2 in buried conduit to a load center a hundred yards away to pull the whole house, or mount a NEMA weatherproof enclosure right at/on the gen set, and go on field manuevers - the flexibility to do whatever is needed should be already there. Not limited to just those two convenience outlets at all.

RTFM.

If no joy? Post the specific Generac details and let other eyes pull a manual and take a look, too.

Our man in Montana and I share a less than positive overall opinion of Generac, but still.

They purvey rather a LOT of gen sets - actually MADE by other people - and some of them are far better than others.
 

ignator

Cast Iron
Joined
Oct 8, 2012
Location
Marion, Iowa
If there is a power factor capacitor bank that you can purchase for your Dynasty 300, that will make a difference in peak amperage used during welding.
I have a single phase Synchrowave 250, that is connected via 200ft of power wire that was only rated for 60amp, and fused for that. I've never tripped the main breaker with the power factor kit installed. And the distribution in my shop is on a 50amp breaker. Power factor capacitors will keep the reactive current in check. The kit from the OEM will have the correct capacitance for your welding supply transformer's inductance.
 

Big B

Diamond
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Michigan, USA
That's even legal ... so long as.. you use the "transfer" lockout plates made for the purpose.

- They are DIRT CHEAP.. compared to a "generator panel', a manual or an "Automatic" transfer switch.

- They don't take long to install.

- They might LOOK clumsy, but don't really even take long to switch, one mode to the other.

Most major load center makers have them for their goods. They aren't hard to find if one but looks.

My panel uses this one:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Square-...erlock-Kit-QOCGK2C/203046553#product-overview

Obsolete panel? Search anyway. ebay might have it.

It can keep you out of a lot more expensive trouble than it's modest price!

Don't wanna?

No foul.

Just take your emergency load(s) directly to the gen set ... and stay TF OFF of the utility mains connected system.

Completely.

THIS.. is NOT one of the code provisions one casually fudges even briefly.
Powerco's are SERIOUS about backfeed violations. They need to be serious.

"Good intentions" or "I would never.." or "I know better than to.." aren't good enough.

Hardware has to prove and enforce it.

Be happy it is cheap.

Be happy you CAN easily stay off their wire.

We had wind storms here in Michigan last week and knocked out our power for 5 days. I did what I always do when we lose power for more than a few hours and pulled the meter, then hooked up my generator to the one of the welder outlets to backfeed the house. I don't have a main breaker.

When the power company came to restore power they just put the meter back in and never said a word about what I did, as usual.
 

Big B

Diamond
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Michigan, USA
Wot? Jealous because you only have 4,073 out of 4,074 no-help posts?

Figures...

Smart people speak because they have something to say. Fools speak because the need to say something.

I reference your over 20,000 babbling posts as termite and that doesn't count your posts as monarchist or any other personalities that you are using here.

Not much of a problem for me though as I usually skip reading your tripe.
 

Big B

Diamond
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Michigan, USA
You should look again at your gen set's manual.

Those are only "convenience" outlets built-in/onto most gen sets once you get above around 7500 Watts, 10 kVA and up almost always. 50 A is nominally 12 kVA @ 240 VAC.

Ex: My 10 kVA is lower-rated than your 17.5 kVA but has a 55A Circuit breaker, so would surely support more than your 50A just for connectivity. Sea-level rating SI 12 kVBA, and 15 kVA is known, proven, sustainable. But 17.5 kVA is NOT.

Most "serious" gen sets also have a set of split lugs meant for heavier wire.

All you have to do is find it and use it.

Whether you run #2 in buried conduit to a load center a hundred yards away to pull the whole house, or mount a NEMA weatherproof enclosure right at/on the gen set, and go on field manuevers - the flexibility to do whatever is needed should be already there. Not limited to just those two convenience outlets at all.

RTFM.

If no joy? Post the specific Generac details and let other eyes pull a manual and take a look, too.

Our man in Montana and I share a less than positive overall opinion of Generac, but still.

They purvey rather a LOT of gen sets - actually MADE by other people - and some of them are far better than others.

I've been using the same Generac generator to power our homes and sometimes our fifth wheel for over 15 years with the only problem being that the battery finally went dead after about 10 years. But termite said....
 

thermite

Diamond
I've been using the same Generac generator to power our homes and sometimes our fifth wheel for over 15 years with the only problem being that the battery finally went dead after about 10 years. But termite said....

As usual, Big Blivet. More Bools**t that help.

You knew the model and rev number of HIS gen set for over 15 years ... all this time and never thot to share it so OTHERS could ken to WHICH Generac? WE didn't even know you two were sharing an RV.

I still say go and FIND OUT.

50 Amp connectors don't ordinarily grow organically right out of generator heads while still in the egg.
 

thermite

Diamond
We had wind storms here in Michigan last week and knocked out our power for 5 days. I did what I always do when we lose power for more than a few hours and pulled the meter, then hooked up my generator to the one of the welder outlets to backfeed the house. I don't have a main breaker.

When the power company came to restore power they just put the meter back in and never said a word about what I did, as usual.

Pulling the meter for that purpose is legit. Part of why they are made the way they are made.

When I had to do it to get the SFO C&W comms site back up, Loma Prieta quake, I had the SFO based Electrician - who only knew one word - "cannot" - put a COVER over it too, though. Mess that zone was in, it wasn't going to be right away they got the cracked gas lines sorted nor the power back.

One or both sides could end up live down that hole!

Rat in a 400A Linde DC stick welder was a "once in a lifetime" dose. No need of booster shots, even with Earthquakes!


:D
 

Big B

Diamond
Joined
Jun 26, 2009
Location
Michigan, USA
As usual, Big Blivet. More Bools**t that help.

You knew the model and rev number of HIS gen set for over 15 years ... all this time and never thot to share it so OTHERS could ken to WHICH Generac? WE didn't even know you two were sharing an RV.

I still say go and FIND OUT.

50 Amp connectors don't ordinarily grow organically right out of generator heads while still in the egg.

As usual you totally missed my point. My point is that just because you and some guy from Montana aren't huge fans of Generac generators doesn't make them bad generators. More bloviation from termite.
 








 
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