Genie Z boom issues

[Steve in SoCal]

This isn't material handling but it is a tool for rigging and equipment access.

I bought a 1995 Genie Z-45-22 DC boom lift that was DOA, I knew it going in.

The thing sat at a Cat house for maybe 6~8 years? Anyway the batteries were dry and the guy that brought said the platform was dead. I added water and got the batteries up where they are holding a charge and operating most of the controls.

The basket/platform was laid over when it came, I had to lift the secondary to get it off the trailer. The secondary is a pantograph type lift with two cylinders, it only raise a few inches on it's own and won't stay up. I used the forklift to "help it" yesterday and when the forklift unloaded the lift would stay in position IF I kept the pump running. I would fall as soon as the pump stopped. This has a counter balance that may be bad or the pressure may be low, I have a fitting on order for the test port.

The basket is the other area with several issues. The auto level is not working and the panel mounted trim switch only lower the basket is either direction of operation. I have to crack the bleeder to raise the basket with a comealong. It will flop over if it is not over center. There is a master/slave system that is supposed to work in tandem with the boom that raises/lowers on a pivot. The other basket failure is the rotation cylinder, leaking fluid from top and no movement under power, I can move the basket by hand from side to side. This has a helical inner cylinder rod that is rotated by a helical piston. I watched a video on this it looks very interesting. The leveling issue is more of a head scratcher.

The lift moves and steers OK, it takes a while to stop, the manual says 5~6 feet is OK that seems kind of odd?

Anyone have experience with these boom lifts? It seems straight forward enough but there are always nuances or quirks with things that would be nice to know.

Steve

 

[john.k]

Your problems may be the hose burst protection......these valves should prevent movement by outside agency...ie ..forklift.......the stopping is possibly the spring brakes wound off to move the device....if it has spring brakes (they will be in the wheel reduction housings.......Yes ,I have had lots of experience with these things.....all of it bad.

 

[JHOLLAND1]

a few thoughts

so yesterday i spent parting out 60 ft jlg z articulated boom lift--lift mechanism similar to genie z-45

my machine was engine powered--your unit--battery operated actually increases component complexity by
100%

z-articulations double solenoid fluid components and increase failure probability dramatically

6-six volt lead acid batteries are used as primary energy source--all 36 vdc output is applied to drive pump and
hoist pump---remainder of electrical components require 24 vdc power--including the multitude of directional solenoids

your method of resurrection of battery bank likely achieved 20vdc or marginally better potential--persue this with multimeter

years of storage likely accompanied by sticky solenoids

genie logic control module may be a preexisting fault component

death/dismemberment much more likely with this category hoist compared to simple elevate and squirt booms

here is link to free manual--

http://manuals.gogenielift.com/Parts And Service Manuals/data/Service/Z Booms/IO/32960.pdf

photos taken today

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

I have a Genie S-60, best advice I can give is get a manual. I rebuilt the rotator for basket a few years ago, not impossible but definitely a pia. First rebuild kit was ordered online based on serial# of the machine, it was wrong kit and they would not accept a return because I had opened the bag. If you need seal and bearing kit P# 122944 for an 8K rotator, I can make you a deal.

 

[Steve in SoCal]

The batteries actually came back far better than expected, they are at 37.2 volts three days after charging/usage was minimal but they are holding charge.

The counter balance is what john k. is referring to, that is my first impression of the problem. I have a Parker coupler on order for the test port on the manifold. One thing I have not found is a good visual location of all the valves and this thing was really filthy when I got it.

The wheels were in the free wheeling condition when I got the lift. A cap that has a sleeve for the rod in the hub is leaking oil on one side, there was no gasket or sealer. Is the leak simply a lack of gasket/sealer?

There is not much more I can do until I get the test fitting to get some actual values.

I have a Grove scissor lift and it has been a great asset, the boom has the advantage of getting to things the grove can't access.

Steve

 

[crickets]

These machines are supposed to have holding valves on most articulated components (basket may lack holding valves on rotation cylinders), which prevent them from folding when pump isn't running. When machines are stored outside, moisture can get into the valves and seize them. I believe normally they're not supposed to be serviceable, but it's difficult to get the replacements for older machines so it's worth to remove them and see if they can be cleaned up and put back into the service. They are a safety feature, so highly recommend replacing the faulty one once identified, even if it works after cleaning.

 

[crickets]

so yesterday i spent parting out 60 ft jlg z articulated boom lift--lift mechanism similar to genie z-45

my machine was engine powered--your unit--battery operated actually increases component complexity by
100%

I haven't worked on an engine powered lift, but the 90's electrics are quite simple. Every function just flips a couple of relays - one to activate the pump, the other to activate the specific valve. I would be surprised if an engine-driven one is any different other than the fact the pump is probably running the whole time, as opposed to comes up on-demand.

 

[Steve in SoCal]

I have the basket off and am removing the rotator, I want to delve into the basket leveling while it is down. The Genie manual sez the counter balance for the auto level is in-line with the boom up, anyone know where the valves are?

The system is rather simple as mentioned above, two electric pumps. One two stage pump for the wheel drive, one single stage pump for boom functions. I am still not sure the boom pump is set to the correct pressure? The test port is a Parker PD fitting, I ordered a coupler that won't be here till the end of the week.

I discovered the problem with the basket controls, the dead man has a bad wire in the panel. With the panel open it works, closing it past 45 it is dead.

I have 4 new tires coming Friday and the batteries seem to be holding. I put almost 7 gallons of DH2O in the batteries. So far the lift seems to be responding to some attention. This came at an opportune time, a big section of roof was blown away by some fierce wind a couple weeks ago. My scissor lift has to go around to the far side to access the roof, this will go up and over equipment that prevents the scissor from accessing the affected area.

Steve








i

 

[Steve in SoCal]

This isn't the same as Dalmatiangirls the end gland has set screws to remove the gland. That came off with a struggle AKA slide hammer, I can't get the other end to come out either, it turns and is out about 1/8".

Steve

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

I remember pulling the 2 pins, then unscrew?? same end, and it came apart. Sorry, my memory is not what it used to be

Did you find the right Helac manual for your rotator?

 

[Steve in SoCal]

The cylinder is apart. It needs to get cleaned up and assessed it has some corrosion on the helical part of the shaft and in the piston bore. I think it is a 10 series Helac or some other brand? Some of the rebuild procedures don't seem to corollate with the internals?

Steve

 

[crickets]

I have the basket off and am removing the rotator, I want to delve into the basket leveling while it is down. The Genie manual sez the counter balance for the auto level is in-line with the boom up, anyone know where the valves are?
i

I've got a Grove, and while I haven't looked into counter balance, my understanding is it just bleeds some fluid proportionately when the boom is articulated. My manual says counter balance is part of the main valve assembly. In your case maybe it taps into the line going to the boom cylinder ?

 

[JHOLLAND1]

elevated platform risk

" the 90's electrics are quite simple. Every function just flips a couple of relays - "

i agree with this observation-- my experience with articulated hoists began in 1990--
I bought a Simon Z series platform lift--- 30 ft lift with 4x8 ft platform--18 hp honda powering hydraulics

I was up around 25 ft when the platform began tilting vertical and the entire unit seconds away from
complete flip --unit became giant fly swatter--I was the bug --survival prospect minimal

serious malfunction in synchronizing hydraulics

design analysis even to the untrained eye reveals the major flaw--structural attachments are all located on left outboard
end of unit--this series of lifts was rapidly replaced by the more stable scissor configuration

the Simon unit I bought was put to the torch--replaced by 60 ft conventional boom lift

 

[ShaunM]

Former employer had a similar Genie lift and when the basket auto-level wasn't working, the service provider found either the slave or master (don't recall which) was bypassing around the seals. New cylinder solved it.

 

[crickets]

Former employer had a similar Genie lift and when the basket auto-level wasn't working, the service provider found either the slave or master (don't recall which) was bypassing around the seals. New cylinder solved it.

I imagine that would affect manual leveling as well.

 

[Steve in SoCal]

Back to the task at hand.

The rotator has areas where oil film collapsed and corrosion is present. I am showing the before pics here, the helix shown is the external piston spiral. That is the heart of the beast, it converts lateral to radial motion by moving up/down via hydraulic pressure. The internal helix drives a mating feature on the rotator shaft. All the helix features have some level of exposure to corrosion as do the bores in both the piston stroke as well as the rotator bearing bore.

I lightly glass beaded the area shown in the pics, it has some wastage in the peaks of the teeth but it is smooth when turning. I have lightly abraded the piston bore, I have to clean the housing yet. When the parts are all clean I will take some more pics and add to this, the piston bore will be the determining feature in the outcome.

Steve

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

Sorry for the delay, and cannot figure out how to send pics in a PM, so posting here. Let me know if you need dimensions on any of the seals.

 

[Steve in SoCal]

The seal kit P/N that is supposed to be correct is 233745

The piston bore has this corrosion it is as far as I can gauge under .001 deep. There is pitting along with the scaring. The helix gearing meshes smoothly on all elements and that is not a concern for viability. Here are some pics of the piston bore and upper bearing bore.

Steve

 

[dalmatiangirl61]

If it was mine, and I was not in the mood to buy a new one, I'd clean it up, slap a seal kit in it, and hope it held, while keeping an eye on ebay for a used one. For the bore I would run a bead hone thru it, if possible remove the internal gear (mark it so it goes back in same position), for cleaning other parts wire brush, maybe evaporust (degrease parts first), not sure bead blasting is the way to go.

 

[Steve in SoCal]

The "bearings" are split sleeve plastic so I am not that concerned with the upper section. I am reluctant to use a ball hone, using emery in the local area seems more focused on the damage. The gear that I bead blasted I also dressed with emery along the pitted teeth. There are no high spots just depressions and the contact across mesh is pretty uniform so no single tooth engagement.

I am inclined to try a seal kit, a new cylinder is 1650.00 I have a 7.5 HP hydraulic powerpack I am going to turn into a test stand the Parker manual details test protocol for return to service. This is also not highly stressed, the basket and payload total are under 700 pounds and there are no restrictions to movement.

Steve