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Goodrich plant closure

machinistrrt

Stainless
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Location
near Cleveland
I just heard today Goodrich is closing the Cleveland landing gear plant, once known as Cleveland Pneumatic. Nearly went their after getting laid off back in '03. Glad I didn't.


Guess the recovery hasn't made it to NE Ohio.
 
How does that plant not have enough work? Aerospace is actually doing pretty well right now. Asia hasn't really started building all their own aircraft and they seem to need a ton in that side of the world. Plus right now they are going through a lot of the older aluminum aircraft I think and replacing with composite. Military is still holding steady, foreign military sales are on a slow incline.
 
How does that plant not have enough work? Aerospace is actually doing pretty well right now. Asia hasn't really started building all their own aircraft and they seem to need a ton in that side of the world. Plus right now they are going through a lot of the older aluminum aircraft I think and replacing with composite. Military is still holding steady, foreign military sales are on a slow incline.

Yeah I don't get it either... we make aerospace castings, defense and otherwise, and we've been on a pretty steady uptick for the last two years.

It does sound like they lost bids to other, more efficient factories though. That may be it.
 
It said in the link there were three major competitors-
One is their own factory in Tennessee-
Goodrich Corporation - Investor Relations - Press Releases
And, frankly, they probably work cheaper in the South.
Goodrich also has landing gear plants in Texas and Washington.


then there are these guys in Canada-
Messier-Dowty - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and Fokker in Holland.

Fokker Landing Gear - History

So, not specifically the Chinese, but, instead, very high tech, well capitalized multinationals whose specialty is aerospace, not tires.

I think the real truth is that with modern manufacturing, you dont need an aging factory full of 50 year olds, when a modern CNC factory with non-union 20 somethings in a right to work state does more production cheaper.

No mention anywhere of any offshoring beyond the existing Canadian and Dutch longstanding competitors.
 
I just heard today Goodrich is closing the Cleveland landing gear plant, once known as Cleveland Pneumatic. Nearly went their after getting laid off back in '03. Glad I didn't.


Guess the recovery hasn't made it to NE Ohio.


Sounds like where I work.

Everybody is 50+. Nobody will innovate or change.
 
"capitalized multinationals whose specialty is aerospace, not tires"

Goodrich hasn't specialized in "tires" in years. They have been buying up aerospace companies for quite awhile, and their "specialties" cover a broad spectrum of aerospace components from avionics to landing gear.
 
Okay, tires are twentieth century.
Landing gear is 21st.

However, this still looks like a case of shuffling factories for maximum profit, not losing jobs to china.
 
From what I pick up on the news report the other night. Goodrich said there loosing work due to the plant's tooling outdated. All the new stuff they are unable to do in that plant and the cost of retooling Vs moving the work to other plants .... well we see what happen.

Yes NE Ohio take yet another shot in the arm. :( Cleveland has been on the down fall for a number of years and nothing seams to help here.
 
The tire business was sold to Michelin in 1988.

Yeah they were at death's doorstep when Michelin bought the Uniroyal-Goodrich tire operations. They kept the air springs and other rubber related stuff that wasn't tire specific, in addition to the other non-rubber products. Don't know how much Michelin paid for the tire ops, but they assumed $350 million in unfunded pension liabilities in the deal, and most people in the industry said that was the thing that was about to bury them.

Seems to have worked out well for both parties. Michelin got recognized names in the mid-price tire market where they previously had no presence, and Goodrich survived.
 
Goodrich makes a Hell of a lot of the aerospace brakes.
I worked on some automation for the carbon brake shoe plant in Pueblo, PITA process to automate.
 
The state and the city were offering enough in incentives to retool the place, at least where the smaller parts are concerned. I can think of two things that probably tipped the scale: worker age, as alluded to earlier (by the way, that and some political intrigue got the Aurora operation, where I was, back in '03), and it being a union shop with associated pension. Not to mention the building dated from WW2.
 
The state and the city were offering enough in incentives to retool the place, at least where the smaller parts are concerned. I can think of two things that probably tipped the scale: worker age, as alluded to earlier (by the way, that and some political intrigue got the Aurora operation, where I was, back in '03), and it being a union shop with associated pension. Not to mention the building dated from WW2.

Why is worker age such a factor? Is it really that hard to find underemployed people in Ohio to start training? As a customer of Goodrich I can say we definitely are under-impressed with other divisions for sure but still. It is a bit wierd with so many younger people out of work, to hear one complain about a 50+yr old work force. What ever happened to the idea of on the job training?

Adam
 
Why is worker age such a factor? Is it really that hard to find underemployed people in Ohio to start training? As a customer of Goodrich I can say we definitely are under-impressed with other divisions for sure but still. It is a bit wierd with so many younger people out of work, to hear one complain about a 50+yr old work force. What ever happened to the idea of on the job training?

Adam

Corporate America jettisoned paying for anything they could avoid about the time they abandoned ethics. In other words, long ago.
To the point, if you're faced with replacing most of your workforce due to retirements, why not just move the facility to a place that has less costs and no union, no pension requirement, particularly when the facility itself should be replaced. It's just an excuse, but they're sticking with it. No value is attached to individual and collective skill and institutional memory.
The only employees with value are the top brass, ironically the ones most easily replaced.
 
How does that plant not have enough work? Aerospace is actually doing pretty well right now. Asia hasn't really started building all their own aircraft and they seem to need a ton in that side of the world. Plus right now they are going through a lot of the older aluminum aircraft I think and replacing with composite. Military is still holding steady, foreign military sales are on a slow incline.

Don't want to counter this but add my perspective. I agree 100% that areospace is doing well, I would say maybe aircraft better than space but wouldn't argue. I think areospace is coming out of the recession about a year ahead of predictions and much sooner than the normal enter-exit 2 years after other markets.

Goodrich has been on a tear buying areospace companys for the last 10 years or so. I see the same thing happening with my employer (on a smaller scale of course). We have bought companys and divisions off companys to strengthen our position. But sometimes you find yourself with a redundance of capabilities that need to be combined and streamlined. When Goodrich aquired Lucas, TRW, and Coltec there had to be overlapping capacity-capabilities that needed to be combine. They need to combine the best of the processes in the fewest facilities in order to stay on top.

When you combine processes from mutiple companies to come up with a "world class" process you gain efficency. And stop and think about the the "re-tooling" thing. If you were to take a factory full of (just picking something) mid 1990s horizontal machining centers with 8K spindles, rapids, and tool change speeds of the day and replaced them with todays machines look at the efficency gains you would have. A company must continue to do this to be a leader.

We have to continue getting the latest high speed machines and the best cutting tool technalogy, ect. to stay on top. However there is a finite number of airframes being made each year. This equates to fewer jobs in a given market. Without replacing this workload with something else there is no other option but for fewer workers.

The plant I work at used to be a "we only make THESE here" plant. We are now a "we will make you ANYTHING you want" plant. With the push to get to fewer vendors in the aircraft market we are making "trinkets" way off from our core products but that are part of a system and we are damn glad to do it.
 
Tank,

That was a very interesting take, where I work we are on the top of the food chain integrating a lot of parts and components from other companies. One thing that I seem to think may be taking place in this industry is there actually appears to be a massive inefficiency being brought on by the Harvard educated MBA.

What I have seen in many of the suppliers to my company and my company itself is that they all think you have to outsource and that some how no one can make any profit making anything these days:rolleyes5:. It really is quite amazing when you think of it that an aircraft maker no longer thinks that they can make money making aircraft and the parts that go into it but such is the gospel that they preach in Harvard and the rest of the elite schools.

What gets me scratching my head is when these companies outsource what are often speaking relatively low volume parts they go to job shops who are low bidders and are making them on their own equipment. Unlike when you are making your own parts where you have the luxury of designing your parts around your machine, and your machinery, and production floor around your parts and your parts only it doesn't seem like the outsource vendors get such opportunity. I would think that this much less efficient.

Some how I doubt that the job shops that they are turning to will be optimizing their production lines around the customer's product not knowing if next year they will have the product line.

Maybe I am wrong but it seems like the level of outsourcing for the sake of outsourcing taking place in corporate America today is incredibly inefficient. Some of the stuff I see seems crazy. I look at simple components that 20yrs ago we would have designed and had done in house, they would have been perfect jobs to train a young engineers on. Back in they day they would probably have had a senior engineer (who also worked other projects) overseeing a younger guy or two who would design the part, tooling and put it into production.

Today that part is supplied by a top name vendor such as Goodrich, Parker, etc... it requires and army of purchasing people, and contract management people on both ends, and the same lead engineer and junior engineers at the vendor, plus on the other side of the fence the company having the thing designed needs its own engineers and purchasing department to supervise and fight additional costs due to changes. Then you look at this part only to find out that the vendor designing further outsources almost every part of the manufacturing themselves adding even more levels of complication. I wonder if the guy far down that food chain is really willing to invest as much in special equipment if he knows he can always later loose the job to another low bidder.

Maybe it is just me but it would seem as an industry we are outsourcing and spreading more wealth, knowledge and intellectual product then the MBA's ever realized. I am not sure how much of this trikles down to the guy running the machines but it sure as heck seems complicated, inefficient and crazy to me.

To see what I am talking of one really needs to look no further than Boeing's costly 787 experience. Boeing 787 | 787 Dreamliner teaches Boeing costly lesson on outsourcing - Los Angeles Times

Adam
 
Adam,

I have to agree with most everything you said. I didn't even touch on what this "lowest bidder" outsourcing has done for the end products. I can't see where it has kept costs down but it has affected quaility and dilivery.

20-25 years ago we used to manufacture everything that we could make money on that went into our product. Of course we couldn't make fasteners, pin, ect. cheap enough but you know what I mean. Hell, we had some parts that were sent out for operational work that we couldn't do one op. on like a ID thread grind or something. That's unheard of now. If you purposed something like that today they would have you drug tested.

I'm aware of the 787 story as we have content on the airframe and the GE & PW engines. I hope it wakes some people up but I think the upper management people that make the outsource decisions never see something like that happening to themselves or their company.
 








 
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