Gorton 375-2 Tool Cutter Grinder

[texasgeartrain]

This thread is a bit of a continuation from a thread I started prior to purchasing this machine. That thread is here:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/abrasive-machining/opinions-gorton-375-2-tool-grinder-400181/

Having purchased it, and brought it home, thought I'd start a new thread with a cleaner title and pics to start. I'll probably add quite a bit to this thread over time, but I have other projects going on, so mostly I'll be looking to get this operational in the short term.

I was working in NY for a few weeks, and was determined to drag something home while I was in a more favorable buying market. This machine was it . Found it in Birdsboro PA, about an hour and half from where I was staying. Here's a pic outside the 200 year old stone building I got it from:



Machine model number is part of the casting. Serial Number 26815:



More pics after I got it home:

 

[texasgeartrain]

Some info found on Vintage Machinery from a 1940 Accessories Brochure on pages 20-23:
George Gorton Machine Co. - Publication Reprints - Gorton Acceeories - Cutters and Grinders - Catalog 1317-E | VintageMachinery.org

The pdf:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2136/23590.pdf

I also downloaded the pdf, if for whatever reason that is unavailable in the future, and someone needs it.

The cover of brochure:



Top half of page 20:



Bottom half of page 20:



Page 21 in two pieces:

 

[texasgeartrain]

Info on the grinding wheels. Looks like originally 3" to 4" wheels. Mine had a 6" on it:



The lamp was optional, Luckily I have it:



Now in a 1960's brochure, they show the collets as 4NS for the standard 717-1 tool head. The 1940 brochure didn't mention collet size that I saw. This is from the 1960's accessories brochure:



That brochure is here:
George Gorton Machine Co. - Publication Reprints - Gorton Small Tools & Accessories Form 2720-G | VintageMachinery.org

The pdf, page 17:
http://vintagemachinery.org/pubs/2136/26111.pdf

That 717-1 tool head that takes 4NS collets is here:

 

[texasgeartrain]

More pics:



The cover for motor and belt area:



Pedestal has a tool area and collet rack:



A little tool tray area up on the back and a removable water cup:

 

[texasgeartrain]

There's a vented cover on top side:



Lifting that cover will allow you to access the other end of spindle, you can hold this end with a wrench while changing grinding wheels.



The shaft for grinding wheels is 7/16", so you'll most likely need a bushing for any regularly available wheels. The wheel I took off had a 1-1/4" mounting hole with a bushing. The washers had no problem grabbing the wheel itself though:

 

[michiganbuck]

Texasgunsmith, You do such a great job of taking and posting photos, how about you making a collection of various cutter sharpening set-ups on the Gorton.

 

[stephen thomas]

You might be aware:
One of GG's descendents built/maintains a website devoted to all machines Gorton, and all the published materials.
History of, and reference material for Gorton Machine

All the manuals & catalogs:
George Gorton Machine Company form index

Where were you here in NY?

smt

 

[texasgeartrain]

You might be aware:
One of GG's descendents built/maintains a website devoted to all machines Gorton, and all the published materials.
History of, and reference material for Gorton Machine

All the manuals & catalogs:
George Gorton Machine Company form index

Where were you here in NY?

smt

No, I was not aware ! Wow, what great links, thanks a lot.

Prior to you posting, I had purchased a 375 manual from ebay:
Gorton Lars 375, Cutter Grinder Form 2006-A, Operations & Parts Identify Manual | eBay

That manual can also be found on industrialmanuals.com:
Gorton Lars 375, Cutter Grinder, 717 Head, Instructions & Parts Manual 1964 : Machinery Manuals | Parts Lists | Maintenance Manual | Service Instructions | Schematics

That manual is supposed to be forms 2006-A and/or 2842-C. In checking the Gorton Manuals link you posted, I didn't find either there, but did see some other info which I'll post later when I go through everything.

Pics from the Manual I purchased, but didn't receive yet, supposed to be 17 pages:



I was working at GMD Shipyard inside the Brooklyn Navy Yard. I'm posting another thread about that, which will take a few days to get pics and such sorted out. The thread started here:
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...vy-yard-manual-heavy-iron-400364/#post3900155

 

[texasgeartrain]

Thanks again to Stephen Thomas for posting the link of all the Gorton manuals, as well as who is maintaining that site, which I believe to be Richard Gorton.

Probably need a few posts to link and post what I found. Each item is listed as a form number. Some of those forms are only a pic or two with no description. An example of that is here on form 2508:
George Gorton Machine Co. Cutter grinding set guage, Form 2508

The two pics from there:



Another is form 2614, which shows an electric motor driving tool head:
George Gorton Machine Co. Cutter Grinder attachment, Form 2615

 

[texasgeartrain]

Now many brochures and such seem to have been updated yearly with generally the same info. One such case is form 1385. Form 1385 has multiple updates with letters at the end, so form 1385A through 1385F that I have found.

Starting with 1385C, with a copywrite of 1942, The 375-2 tool cutter is shown, and has a bit of a parts breakdown starting on page 31:
George Gorton Machine Co. Instruction and Parts Manual for Pantographs, 1942, Form 1385-C

I wanted to show the 1942 pics. . .just because . But I can see and read the 1950 version a little better. That is form 1385F. You can see the cover is for a pantograph, but "also cutter grinding":



Also starting page 31 for the 375-2. Here's the top half of page 31:



The bottom half of page 31:



And page 32 in two pieces:

 

[EmanuelGoldstein]

No, I was not aware ! Wow, what great links, thanks a lot.

You say that now, but what about when you've spent the family money on a 4NS fix, the kids have holes in their shoes, the wife's ready to leave, you haven't been to work in a month because you're too busy searching craigslist, facebook and the local flea markets for that power-driven flute radiuser you saw in Publication 147, only three ever been made ? Hunh ? how about then, when your whole life is crashing down but all you can think of is licking another 36 grit wheel with the Geroge Gorton label on it, eh ? Will you still thank that tool pusherman then ?

 

[texasgeartrain]

You say that now, but what about when you've spent the family money on a 4NS fix, the kids have holes in their shoes, the wife's ready to leave, you haven't been to work in a month because you're too busy searching craigslist, facebook and the local flea markets for that power-driven flute radiuser you saw in Publication 147, only three ever been made ? Hunh ? how about then, when your whole life is crashing down but all you can think of is licking another 36 grit wheel with the Geroge Gorton label on it, eh ? Will you still thank that tool pusherman then ?

Its cheaper than whiskey and women. . . I think.

Plus no hangovers.

 

[EmanuelGoldstein]

Its cheaper than whiskey and women. . . I think.

Plus no hangovers.

Good point. Maybe I should rethink this

 

[texasgeartrain]

Back in post #2, I posted info from an accessories brochure from VM dated 1940, and was the earliest info I had found up to that point.

Going through the info on gorton-machine.org, I found an earlier version of the same brochure dated 1937, and is listed as form 1317a. This 1937 pub is now the earliest publication or info I have found on a 375-2:
George Gorton Machine Co. Cutters, Grinders, and Accessories catalog, 1937, Form 1317-A

Also the brochure actually shows the machine on the cover:



I found mostly the same info, but the pic was larger and more clear in this brochure:



One difference was the weight in shipping data, Its listed as 500 lbs total here, which I feel is more accurate than the 700 listed in the 1940 brochure. I say that because I split the top of grinder from pedestal for transport, and me and another fella set the top down by hand. I could not have lifted the weight listed in the other brochure .



Wheel data the same, but slightly expanded info:

 

[texasgeartrain]

My machine had a 6" wheel on it when I bought it. Looking at the specs these were originally set up with 4" wheels. Was looking to order some wheels and also a belt, which is on its last leg. Belt is a 2L or 1/4" width:



I have a lathe tool grinder that takes 6" wheels, and I know the max rpm is like 3450 rpm on those. Got me to thinking if the previous owners were overspeeding wheels. That's because the max speed on 4" wheels is in the area of 5000-5300rpm.

I have a had held photo tach, and first shot the speed at like 3250. The belt being terrible, I had off to get a measure and reinstalled and then shot 3400 rpm. So whoever put 6" wheels on was smart enough to do a pulley change anyway.

I wanted to put the machine back to 4" wheels. One reason being alignment of the tool head to wheel. This is the Gorton with a 6" wheel. For perspective, that inner step on wheel is 4":



Now measuring the pulleys, the motor pulley is 3.5" and the spindle pulley is 2". I can't see a data tag on motor, but using 1800 rpm on this calculator puts me in the area of the numbers I shot with a tach:
Pulley Calculator. RPM, Belt Length, Speed, Animated Diagrams

First catch 22, 2L pulleys not really available in abundance unless I want plastic, and I don't. I can get 2L belts, but not sure how easy in every fractional size. Even 3L belts not as convenient.

So now I'm down to either making my own 2L pulley. Or maybe up-sizing to 4L for greater convenience. Or deal with slower speeds on 4" wheels, or use 6" wheels till I'm ready to make a project of it. I'm going to think on that a little bit.

Also motor is not original, belt alignment is off, need to fix that.

 

[EmanuelGoldstein]

First catch 22, 2L pulleys not really available in abundance unless I want plastic, and I don't. I can get 2L belts, but not sure how easy in every fractional size. Even 3L belts not as convenient.

So now I'm down to either making my own 2L pulley. Or maybe up-sizing to 4L for greater convenience.

Or go to poly-v and either suppliers have pulleys or make your own. I am a big believer in poly-v on a grinder, much smoother and nicer. Have done a few. The only drawback to them is they require more tension, so if the machine is especially feeble, maybe not so good. But otherwise, they are great.

 

[eKretz]

You could always swap to a 3-ph motor and a vfd too and run whatever size wheel you want with variable speed. That's what I do on the Monoset.

 

[texasgeartrain]

You could always swap to a 3-ph motor and a vfd too and run whatever size wheel you want with variable speed. That's what I do on the Monoset.

I looked at that possibility a bit, and may swap motor for a 3 phase at some point. For now I've ordered some pulleys, belts and wheels.

I was looking at the start box, which may be original, though I'm not 100% sure. And I'd like to be able to keep it. Its a little banged up, but when I clean up the machine I'd like to straighten it out and have it look nice:



Though currently single phase, thought I'd check if I can run 3 phase though it. It turns out I can:



One interesting part, it still had the original Cutler Hammer print inside:



The date on the print is May, 1943:



A few factors I don't know. Is the box original ? Was the print used for several years in production ? Maybe the box was purchased as war surplus by Gorton, who knows.

But I'm thinking this particular machine was probably made between 1943-1953.

 

[EmanuelGoldstein]

One interesting part, it still had the original Cutter Hammer print inside:

If you do a search, should be Cutler-Hammer. I see the print is boogered in that area. They were pretty big in industrial electrics, good quality. Would be cool to keep it.

 

[eKretz]

Yep, Cutler-Hammer. I'd keep it too. Output from the switch could power the eventual VFD parked right next to the box. Could run a remote for start/stop fwd/rev and freq up by the motor.