H630 spindle related problem

[oldmansimek]

I am here to grasp at straws. About 4 months ago my Mazak H630 started having a new problem, randomly the spindle will just stop running. When this happens the drive knows that it stopped and the control also shows no rpm, the problem is the machine keeps running. Has anyone had this or a similar problem? To date I have done everything Mitsubishi asked me to try, I have replaced all of the boards on the spindle drive and the power supply, reinitialized the control and checked every wire/cable and re-seated every cable connection. Mitsubishi does not think it is a problem with the drive and they don't recommend sending it in for repair because they can not do any load testing and the problem is random. Mazak has been here twice and have no further solutions. The machine is m32 control H-630, and the machine does not get any alarms other then sometimes an overload when the spindle is stopped and the axis is trying to move inside a part. At this point any advice will be helpful, Thanks.

 

[dbreeze]

Try calling my boss, Scott Pruett, at 828-280-5804. He was Mazak trained at their factory in Japan. He's been doing nothing but Mazak repair for ~25 years. I'm his bench tech, I handle component level electronic repair here at his shop while Scott does mostly field service/troubleshooting. If there's an answer, Scott can likely help you find it....

 

[noname777]

I am here to grasp at straws. About 4 months ago my Mazak H630 started having a new problem, randomly the spindle will just stop running. When this happens the drive knows that it stopped and the control also shows no rpm, the problem is the machine keeps running. Has anyone had this or a similar problem? To date I have done everything Mitsubishi asked me to try, I have replaced all of the boards on the spindle drive and the power supply, reinitialized the control and checked every wire/cable and re-seated every cable connection. Mitsubishi does not think it is a problem with the drive and they don't recommend sending it in for repair because they can not do any load testing and the problem is random. Mazak has been here twice and have no further solutions. The machine is m32 control H-630, and the machine does not get any alarms other then sometimes an overload when the spindle is stopped and the axis is trying to move inside a part. At this point any advice will be helpful, Thanks.

explain this:
the drive knows that it stopped -???? what is on FR-SF LED indicator when it stopped?

what is more likely happening is FR-SF stops AC motor for some reason ( could be loss of communication through BUS cable with NC control, black cable that connects all servo and spindle ) and after that doesnt update NC on AC motor status, like SPINDLE UP TO SPEED. So NC basically doesnt understand what is happening with AC motor.

You have R2105 , bit 2 M5017 relay - WAITING CUTTING FEED UNTIL SP. UP TO SPEED parameter ( 1 is valid) means , if you make it 1 machine wont move axis unless spindle up to speed. If it moves when spindle stopped means, NC has no feedback from FR-SF

the other thing is R2140/5 is SPINDLE UP TO SPEED PERCENTAGE, NC always is looking for spindle RPM feedback.



how do you get rid of the issue? Main power cycling? if yes, then when it happens again have a look on VERSION screen, if you can see Spindle drive software version ( means machine is still talking to FR-SF) if version number is missing, no communication at all.


Have a look when it stops inside PLC ladder on signal -\\- X245, that is NC --> PLC signal that spindle is UP TO SPEED. If that signal is ON when SPINDLE stopped that it means NC wasnt updated properly.

 

[oldmansimek]

explain this:
the drive knows that it stopped -???? what is on FR-SF LED indicator when it stopped?

The FR-SF shows 0 rpm no alarm, if you sit there and wait for it to happen you can watch the rpm change (reads the same on the control), I would also expect the spindle to coast to a stop but it is almost like it got an M5 command. <script src="https://adservice.google.com/adsid/integrator.sync.js?domain=www.practicalmachinist.com" ></script><script >processGoogleTokenSync({"newToken":"FBS"},5);</script>


what is more likely happening is FR-SF stops AC motor for some reason ( could be loss of communication through BUS cable with NC control, black cable that connects all servo and spindle ) and after that doesnt update NC on AC motor status, like SPINDLE UP TO SPEED. So NC basically doesnt understand what is happening with AC motor.

We already tried swapping the cable from another machine.

You have R2105 , bit 2 M5017 relay - WAITING CUTTING FEED UNTIL SP. UP TO SPEED parameter ( 1 is valid) means , if you make it 1 machine wont move axis unless spindle up to speed. If it moves when spindle stopped means, NC has no feedback from FR-SF

Mazak told me because we were not using mazatrol the control doesn't care that the spindle stopped I will have to try the r2105

the other thing is R2140/5 is SPINDLE UP TO SPEED PERCENTAGE, NC always is looking for spindle RPM feedback.

Same as above

how do you get rid of the issue? Main power cycling? if yes, then when it happens again have a look on VERSION screen, if you can see Spindle drive software version ( means machine is still talking to FR-SF) if version number is missing, no communication at all.

I can just restart the spindle as there is no alarm, I thought it might have been program related but I have seen it happen in mdi or jog mode. The worst part is sometimes the machine will run for a week (3 shifts) with no problems, and sometimes it happens multiple times a day.

Have a look when it stops inside PLC ladder on signal -\\- X245, that is NC --> PLC signal that spindle is UP TO SPEED. If that signal is ON when SPINDLE stopped that it means NC wasnt updated properly.

I will check this but I think we already verified that it is fine.

Thanks

 

[noname777]

I will check this but I think we already verified that it is fine.

Thanks

what is strange in here... is why FR-EF doesnt give you alarm 23, which is- The difference between the referenced speed and motor speed is 50 rpm or more and it takes for 12 sec or more.

What is MAzatrol by the way? Just the shell that translate your conversation with it into normal G-code and the feeds this G code to M300 Mitsubishi control. Try this bit any way. Here is 2 pictures.

1- M239 is when spindle up to speed and it takes data from R2145 ( tolerance ) and then make a decision if spindle is running good and up to speed.

2- CUTTING START INTERLOCK . N . that is numerical signal to NC control, the way I understand it. If 5017 is ZERO it will ignore M239 and sort of move axis when spindle is not up to speed.


p.s. if FR-SF isnt alarming 23 , then it was sent ZERO speed deliberately from NC control for some reason.
that kind of data ( I will assume ) can be monitored in R18 - effective spindle speed, R8,R9 - spindle command rotation speed input. I wonder if Mitsubishi people can tell you where exactly to look ( what R- register) to see what speed command is going into SERVO and what speed feed back coming back into NC.

then inside PLC there are bunch of relays like M614 - spindle stop... or M617 SP.ST HOLD. They all can be used to see if PLC has stopped spindle, or put on HOLD or NC gave a command with zero speed. You can check a lot if you have ladder diagram in front of you and someone helpful working for your local Mitsubishi department


p.s.s if you can just restart it and problem is gone for a while, what if I/O board is failing and all of the sudden, in the middle of running a program, it sends signal (PUSH BUTTON- spindle stop) to NC control to stop it.

 

[Neven13]

Hi oldmansimek,

I have the same problem on two H-630. Did you find solution? How did you fix it?