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dami

Plastic
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Hello to All

I have VCE 750 machine and I have a problem with RESET key.
It gets stuck sometimes. Anybody know maybe if it is possible to open this keyboard and clean (repair) or
I need to change it. If anybody have it for spare parts, Iˇm ready to buy it- also used.

Regards, Damijan IMG_20220106_204201 (1).jpg
 

dami

Plastic
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Hello, Everybody

I ordered new keyboard and it will arrive this days, but Iˇm not 100% sure that this is my main problem. After 1 hour of work computer freeze, kayboard is not
active enymore and machine stops.
With new restart, I get strange screen (picture), obviously system can not load correcty and on the processor board only +5v and halt light are on.
I suspect that the problem is on main processor board.
My opininion is that one element - after heating stop to working. ( after one hour machine start normally)
I read a lot of posts on forum and one possibility is also C40 capacitor on processor board...(picture)
If anybody could help me with suggestions- what to check - I will be very grateful.
(I just start my own business and problems have already begun)

Regards, Damijan
 

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countryguy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Location
Mich, USA
I've seen this odd display (or similar) before in overheat conditions on the PC board stack. On mine: The fix, open the back and put a fan blowing up. Do you run w/ the back open and/or a fan on it to keep it cool and this happens? I would try that. And keep the heat-gun to a minimum IMO. Good way to ruin an IC and then your SOL. Also; Is the fan on the door working , and does your unit have filters in the door? Mine does and when I got it used, they were like mud-bricks and zero air would circulate in /out.

On the keyboard, you bought it... slap it on. I think you'll enjoy a shiny new keyboard! :-) The SKBIF (serial keyboard interface) is probably ok. Others have noted mice and critters in the long tube arm, and problems with the long cable connecting it to the rear. That is the far end of the spectrum... Change the keypad, and go from there IMO.
 

dami

Plastic
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
I finally manged to change the keyboard with new, but situation is the same.
Machine freeze after 1 hour of work. And yes - countryguy you are right, it is overheating. I open the back door and put
big fan to blow air in to the electric cabinet. With fan I can work 5- 6 hours without error.
But this is just temporary solution - I need to find which element is critical and on which plate??
Has anyone already solved similar problems ??
On which board I need to put my attention? Is it also possible that the problem come from I/O board?
 

dami

Plastic
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Good idea with a thermal camera. I will ask some friends for it, or I will buy it.
I will report about the results...
Thanks.
 

dami

Plastic
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Today I borowed a thermometer and check some elements on the boards. I found out that on i/O board
I have an elevated temperature on two resistors and capacitors. (pictures attached)The temperature reaches almost 90 degrees.
I thing that this is absolutely to much.
I made the same measurement on a machine of my friend (little different board-last picture), but temperature does not exceed 40 degreeson resistors and capacytors. Near this elements is a cabel conectet with number 880A (SP SOLENS IOPCB P12)
Now the question: Does anybody know what should be reason for this overheating, what function have this elements and would be enough that I just replace them or the reason for overheating is somewhere else?
Maybe Iˇm closer to solve the problem with freezeng the coputer, it also explains to me that machine work longer with
close doors, because fan of macine blows air directly on this elements.
So, any idea is welcome..
 

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friesen

Cast Iron
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
The Io board won't cause the processor issue. These old machines #1? Problem is probably the power supply.(basically a PC 12v supply) Have you checked voltages?
 

dami

Plastic
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Yes this machine is produced in 1993.#1, Tomorow I will check all power supplys again. Today I measure voltage between the resistor and ground and it show me 200V. ??? I don t know from where I receive 200V? Max voltage should be 160- this is for servo cards.
I will check also main transformer- maybe it is conected on wrong pins (wrong voltage).
It is also interesting that the temperature of this resistor rise even machine is not fully started( before open-close the doors and get ef.point)
Just power on and after 30 sec. I have on resistor 50 degreese.
 

friesen

Cast Iron
Joined
Jul 13, 2016
The 5v and 12+- is most important. Without comparison 50 deg C? the IO board could just be a red herring.
 

dami

Plastic
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Ok, I will check all voltage first and then check also conection on a back side of IO board- but there are so many cables connected.. it is not quick job.
For me also is not logical that this overheating cause the problem on procesor board.. but anyway
this overheating is not good and need to find the reason for that.
It will be good to have a electic plan of IO board if somebody have it???
 

countryguy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Location
Mich, USA
Hi dami, I doubt very much it's the I/O board. In my opinion only, the area I would check (on mine)is in the PC Stack with the 3 or 4 stack board set where the CPU board, Video, and Motion control boards are lined up. (more or less). This unit is older than mine so you could/should review the Haas manuals but the keyboard only ( not) display is run and governed by a 'brain' inside the keyboard case. It's a SKBif. (Serial KB Interface). The white operator has a few IC's and mini-computer in there. The operator keyboard talks to the 3 board CPU stack via true RS-232 communications. (Not logic 232 that only runs on 5volts dc). The Video on the other hand is done by a special video board and is sent TTL to the display. The electrical service manual will tell you the board name and Part number if you locate the PDF on the web). Example from ebay (Redirecting to https://redirect.viglink.com?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fitm%2F363827455670%3Fhash%3Ditem54b5ce66b6%3Ag%3AdJQAAOSwP9ZicyPy&key=a7e37b5f6ff1de9cb410158b1013e54a&prodOvrd=RAC&opt=false )

Personally, I think your issue is possibly in there. Also there are a LOT of connectors and a ribbon buss that link them all together ( if yours is like mine). Send some pics of the CPU and other stack? It's under a metal cover w/ a Fan.

1993....
I'll try to find you a guide.
Peace,
CG


Ok, I will check all voltage first and then check also connection on a back side of IO board- but there are so many cables connected.. it is not quick job.
For me also is not logical that this overheating cause the problem on processor board.. but anyway
this overheating is not good and need to find the reason for that.
It will be good to have a electic plan of IO board if somebody have it???
 

countryguy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Location
Mich, USA
Sorry Rushing and on zoom after zoom call...
PDF for the 93 VF here.
https://www.haascnc.com/content/dam...english---vf-series-service-manual---1993.pdf
Pg 121 for the Video board as some general text.

There are many reasons for the heat signatures on your I/O board. Wont go into that here...

Don't just stay researching and using the 1993 guide for all your datum in owning a older Haas. The manuals drifted over the years with technical details in and out which gets you considerably farther at times in a problem (at least that I found). So google for the 1994, 95 and 96 guides. THere may not be a new one for each year, and I know the 96 manual for VF is a re-design. But you'll get a lot of good information among those a few years apart.

Peace,
CG
 

magno_grail

Cast Iron
Joined
May 29, 2014
Location
ca, US
Cable 880 is 110VAC to the spindle head solenoids, page 113 in the 1993 manual. These solenoids operate the piston for the tool release.
160VDC is the nominal, there is a transistor on the servo power board that dumps the extra into the large power resistor mounted below the servo boards (on a '91). Bad place for it as it then heats up the servo boards. I relocated mine on top of the cabinet inside a duct with a fan. Later machines use cook top heating elements, much cheaper than the power resistor. They are mounted in a cage with a fan on top of the cabinet.
Check the transformer connections are right for your AC supply. There are several options of taps.
 

dami

Plastic
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
Hello, guys

I am really grateful to you for taking the time and try to help me with this issuie. Any suggestion can be helpful..
Here is update from today:
First I measure low voltage +5, -5, +12, -12 - this values are all OK.
Then I measure 160VDc on servo boards and receive 178V - this is absolutly too much. Then I check incoming voltage and it is 414V,
check the main transformer and saw that conection is wrong.
I moved the hitch for one step left and now I have 164V on servo drives. Other voltage didnˇt change (still 5 and 12V)
Then I run the machine and check temperature on I/O board (resistor and capacytors), temperature drops for 20 degrees- now I have around
65. (it is still hot but much better then before)
Then I close the cabinete doors and work with machine all day without an error.I checked the temperature periodically and it didn’t exceed 65 degrees.
I know - it's too fast to say I've fixed the mistake, I need test a few day more, but first results are good.

Countryguy- also i am in doubt that the I / O board affects the PCB- but we will see. I remember that two times I want to change the tool, push the button and in that moment computer freeze.
About CPU board, Video, and Motion control boards- this I already de-assemble one time, check all conections and made visual check - but without success.
Magno_grail- You were right about transformer conections, now when the voltage is lower also I have lower overheating. About big power resistor - I do not undertand very well- whic resistor and where do you move it. ( I want to check also on my machine)
I will make a picture of complete cabinet and you can mark me ??
Ok, now I will try to work with machine and give you a feedback - I hope positive:)
Thanks, again
 

countryguy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jul 29, 2014
Location
Mich, USA
Slide to the 20sec mark... Favorite quote thing I use often enough. LOL
Expert Power Apollo 13 Movie CLIP 1995 HD - YouTube

Dami, you may find that you have power that goes up and down depending on the season and area.... Keep an eye on it. I need to move mine around usually from Summer (it's LOW) and then move back down in Winter (when it's not sagging and goes back up over the tap range).

Super call on the Xformer taps MG! "power is everything"



Cable 880 is 110VAC to the spindle head solenoids, page 113 in the 1993 manual. These solenoids operate the piston for the tool release.
160VDC is the nominal, there is a transistor on the servo power board that dumps the extra into the large power resistor mounted below the servo boards (on a '91). Bad place for it as it then heats up the servo boards. I relocated mine on top of the cabinet inside a duct with a fan. Later machines use cook top heating elements, much cheaper than the power resistor. They are mounted in a cage with a fan on top of the cabinet.
Check the transformer connections are right for your AC supply. There are several options of taps.
 

dami

Plastic
Joined
Jan 20, 2022
One more update:
I attached the picture of my upper fan on electric cabinet-awful.Completely blocked with dirty.
I always just watched the bottom fan. After cleaning I found out that it is burned out and replace it with new one.
Now machine working a few days without problems- I hope that it will stay that.
So, two most important things on my case : correct voltage and adequate cooling
 

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