Haas vs Makino

[SND]

And the " how its been rated" detail... funny that on a thread about comparing machines for what they really are and reading past the advertized BS. We end up with exactly it being fully believed. I want bigger colorful stickers that go fast.

In this world its very rare to get more for less.


I wish there was a proper standard for all builders to abide to, no cheating and playing on the buyers inability to read the tiny print, if it can even be found...

 

[Edster]

Now compared to the Robodrill Eco, the DT-1 has 20% more spindle speed, 18% faster rapids, 18% more torque, 50% higher toolchanger capacity and costs 21% less.

How does the Robodrill Eco get me ahead? I'm not trying to sound flippant... I'd love the Robodrill, but I just don't see it.

The DT used to come with a 15k spindle and they changed it to 12k because they were failing. Does that inspire confidence. Spindle acceleration on the robo is .25 sec from 0 to 5k and .87 sec from 0 to 10k. What's it on the DT?

The advertised torque is 45 ft/lbs for the DT and 39 ft/lbs for the robo that's not taking in account Haas' Reputation for over rating their spindles like vacuum cleaners. Hp on the robo is 14.75 for 1 min, 7.5 for 10 min, and 5 continuous.

DT holds 20 tools compaired to 14 for the robo, but it uses a Haas designed / built side arm toolchanger unlike the robodrill toolchanger that has very few moving parts and is rated at 5 million toolchanges MTBF.

Big plus BT30 spindle on the robo drill. Haas has no Big plus spindles on any machines. Big plus would be a big advantage with a 30 taper spindle IMO.

The advertised rapid speed for the DT is 2400 ipm and for the robo 2125 ipm with 1.5 G acceleration. What's the DT's acceleration?

Robo has nano interpolation with absolute encoders with 16 million pulses per rev. Haas did improve there encoders a few years back to around 1 million pulses per rev IIRC. The old stuff was around 250k per rev IIRC.

Table load cap on the robo is 660# and 250# on the DT, most of the capacity is used up with a 4th or vises / fixture on the DT.

The biggest difference IMO is that the robodrill has built an excellent reputation for reliability in high volume production. The brothers are in the same league as the robodrills, but their prices seem to be better. They also have a very fast built in pallet changer that would really make the machine shine. In my opinion there is no way for a 20% discount I would take a DT over a robodrill or a brother machine.

 

[SRT Mike]

Look at the brother....

You compared all of the specifications for the Robodrill vs the Haas.....except one minute detail.........reliability record.

I agree with you - however I doubt anyone outside the manufacturer can really say anything about reliability. It's like cars... everyone "knows" American cars aren't as good as Japanese cars, but the JD Power numbers come out and sometimes show that to be untrue. We're always dealing with anecdotal evidence on reliability... but I will say this. Haas offers a 1 year warranty on their machine. If the Fanuc is much more reliable than the DT-1, then how much longer are they willing to stand behind their machine?

 

[dstryr]

I agree with you - however I doubt anyone outside the manufacturer can really say anything about reliability. It's like cars... everyone "knows" American cars aren't as good as Japanese cars, but the JD Power numbers come out and sometimes show that to be untrue. We're always dealing with anecdotal evidence on reliability... but I will say this. Haas offers a 1 year warranty on their machine. If the Fanuc is much more reliable than the DT-1, then how much longer are they willing to stand behind their machine?

Mori drill / tap machines that were made for Apple to compete aginst the Robodrill come with 2 year warranties....

 

[SRT Mike]

The DT used to come with a 15k spindle and they changed it to 12k because they were failing. Does that inspire confidence. Spindle acceleration on the robo is .25 sec from 0 to 5k and .87 sec from 0 to 10k. What's it on the DT?

The advertised torque is 45 ft/lbs for the DT and 39 ft/lbs for the robo that's not taking in account Haas' Reputation for over rating their spindles like vacuum cleaners. Hp on the robo is 14.75 for 1 min, 7.5 for 10 min, and 5 continuous.

DT holds 20 tools compaired to 14 for the robo, but it uses a Haas designed / built side arm toolchanger unlike the robodrill toolchanger that has very few moving parts and is rated at 5 million toolchanges MTBF.

Big plus BT30 spindle on the robo drill. Haas has no Big plus spindles on any machines. Big plus would be a big advantage with a 30 taper spindle IMO.

The advertised rapid speed for the DT is 2400 ipm and for the robo 2125 ipm with 1.5 G acceleration. What's the DT's acceleration?

Robo has nano interpolation with absolute encoders with 16 million pulses per rev. Haas did improve there encoders a few years back to around 1 million pulses per rev IIRC. The old stuff was around 250k per rev IIRC.

Table load cap on the robo is 660# and 250# on the DT, most of the capacity is used up with a 4th or vises / fixture on the DT.

The biggest difference IMO is that the robodrill has built an excellent reputation for reliability in high volume production. The brothers are in the same league as the robodrills, but their prices seem to be better. They also have a very fast built in pallet changer that would really make the machine shine. In my opinion there is no way for a 20% discount I would take a DT over a robodrill or a brother machine.

Fair points - I'm interested in both machines.

As for the spindle speed, 12k is still 20% over the Robo. I would absolutely make use of that spindle speed all day long, 20% is a lot for what I do. I don't know which spindle (or axes) accelerate faster, I'd guess maybe the DT-1 since it requires a significantly higher breaker but honestly, I don't think acceleration of the spindle or axes matters much to me. I do all production work and I tweak my programs to remove as many moves as possible. I'm probably at 95% cut time vs. 5% rapid time, so any difference would be moot. But you said the Robo has a big plus spindle. I believe that is not the case on the Eco, right? Unless they made a mistake in their brochure. The full robo has it, but again, it's over twice the price of the DT-1.

Now the tool changer is the big one. You and I both know that MTBF on a toolchanger is totally irrelevant. I have an umbrella changer on my machine now that I don't look at and think "if only it were more reliable" - toolchanger reliability is just not something anyone who does machining cares about. On the other hand, everyone cares about tool capacity a whole lot. 14 tools vs 20 is huge for me and would have me spending a lot more time changing out tools and setting offsets than a 20 tool changer. Over the course of a year, I'm confident the time spent changing out tools to change over jobs in the machine would dramatically outweigh the gains from improved acceleration (even if the Robo has improved acceleration, it may be slower, I don't know).

Table capacity is not an issue, I don't think. Couple of vises is 150lbs and that's about all that will fit. I do small aluminum parts, and none of my stock/fixtures are over 20lbs before machining. Although the 660 on the Eco is nice - but does it support 5 axis simultaneous cutting (if I wanted to add a 5th later?).


Now about the Brother machines... I really like 'em. I've never used one but heard a lot of good stuff, and did some research and it seems they are almost universally loved by their owners. So I called Brother and discovered the Brother machine costs *more* than the Robodrill! (not the Eco, the full Robodrill).

TC-S2Dn-O with the big plus spindle starts at $108k - and they want $3k more for thread milling, a spindle speed switch and RS-232. Then it's $50k for a 5th axis (including the column extension you need) and the machine can't do 5-axis simultaneous cutting. The machine needs to be about 30-40% less than it is, IMO.

 

[SRT Mike]

Mori drill / tap machines that were made for Apple to compete aginst the Robodrill come with 2 year warranties....

Thanks for the tip. Any idea what they go for? I'm not looking to buy something right away (or maybe not even that soon), but I hate calling the sales guys when I am just looking - all they want to say is "they cost around.... " and "give us a call when you're ready to buy"

 

[ewlsey]

Now about the Brother machines... I really like 'em.

The machine needs to be about 30-40% less than it is, IMO.

You need to rub noses with one and you will understand. The Brother machines are the most reliable things I have ever seen. I worked in a shop with an S2C. That thing probably ran half a million parts/year. Always one part per cycle. Just drilling and tapping bolt patterns.

We pushed it pretty hard. Tapping at 4000 RPM. Running insert drills and port tools.

I watched it for 3 years and the only thing that ever broke was the cap on the cycle start button. It was literally pushed to death.

The control is a little weird, but rock solid.

 

[Joe788]

TC-S2Dn-O with the big plus spindle starts at $108k - and they want $3k more for thread milling, a spindle speed switch and RS-232. Then it's $50k for a 5th axis (including the column extension you need) and the machine can't do 5-axis simultaneous cutting. The machine needs to be about 30-40% less than it is, IMO.

I'd check out the Brother pricing again now that the Yen is nosediving. Robodrills have always been pricey, but Brothers had a great price point just a few years ago. I'd expect today's price to be wayyyyy less than the $108K you were shown before.

 

[dstryr]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dPtu0zD03CI

This is the baby you want..... I almost bought a used one but I needed 2 machines and the S2b and S2C I added were a better fit but man I wish we got that 22....It came with 1000 psi thru spindle coolant and a 4th axis rotary that spanned the whole x axis.

 

[Edster]

I don't know which spindle (or axes) accelerate faster, I'd guess maybe the DT-1 since it requires a significantly higher breaker but honestly, I don't think acceleration of the spindle or axes matters much to me. I do all production work and I tweak my programs to remove as many moves as possible. I'm probably at 95% cut time vs. 5% rapid time, so any difference would be moot.

The DT has 1G of axis acceleration with a table load of 150# according to their 2010 brochure. They say up to 500# in that brochure with reduced acceleration. You don't make any sense when you say you don't need fast spindle or axis acceleration. If not than why even look at a machine like this in the first place? Anyone looking for a drill tap machine is looking for the fastest machine possible, otherwise they would be looking for a standard 40 taper vmc.

http://haasfactoryoutlet.web12.hubspot.com/Portals/176604/docs/Haas DT-1 Data Sheet.pdf

But you said the Robo has a big plus spindle. I believe that is not the case on the Eco, right? Unless they made a mistake in their brochure. The full robo has it, but again, it's over twice the price of the DT-1.

The eco has big plus in the brochure I have downloaded. I didn't see it in the brochure on line so I don't know for sure now without calling methods.

Now the tool changer is the big one. You and I both know that MTBF on a toolchanger is totally irrelevant. I have an umbrella changer on my machine now that I don't look at and think "if only it were more reliable" - toolchanger reliability is just not something anyone who does machining cares about. On the other hand, everyone cares about tool capacity a whole lot. 14 tools vs 20 is huge for me and would have me spending a lot more time changing out tools and setting offsets than a 20 tool changer. Over the course of a year, I'm confident the time spent changing out tools to change over jobs in the machine would dramatically outweigh the gains from improved acceleration (even if the Robo has improved acceleration, it may be slower, I don't know).

MTBF on the toolchanger is just as important as MTBF on any part of the machine. If the cycle start button broke what would you do? If you measure your tools offline there won't be much difference between setup times with 14 tools vs 20 tools. Just put in the tool and type in the offset. Even if your measuring tools in the machine as long as you don't break the tool down you can still write down the offset and save it for next time. The only time the smaller carousel will matter is if you need more that 14 tools for a part your machining.

Table capacity is not an issue, I don't think. Couple of vises is 150lbs and that's about all that will fit. I do small aluminum parts, and none of my stock/fixtures are over 20lbs before machining. Although the 660 on the Eco is nice - but does it support 5 axis simultaneous cutting (if I wanted to add a 5th later?).

Your not adding a 5th to an eco. To a standard robodrill you can add a 5th. The eco allows only a 4th but it can be the direct drive 4th which is fast as hell.

Now about the Brother machines... I really like 'em. I've never used one but heard a lot of good stuff, and did some research and it seems they are almost universally loved by their owners. So I called Brother and discovered the Brother machine costs *more* than the Robodrill! (not the Eco, the full Robodrill).

TC-S2Dn-O with the big plus spindle starts at $108k - and they want $3k more for thread milling, a spindle speed switch and RS-232. Then it's $50k for a 5th axis (including the column extension you need) and the machine can't do 5-axis simultaneous cutting. The machine needs to be about 30-40% less than it is, IMO.

There probably giving you the "tire kicker" price. The experience I've had is the brothers are more economical than the robodrills. There also more options to the brother line. They have moving table designs and moving column designs. They have the robodrill style toolchanger or a side arm toolchanger with 40 tool capacity. They also have models with built in lazy susan style pallet changers. The high torque spindle option has 67 ft/lbs of tq and 35 HP! I better stop talking before I sell my self a brother.

 

[SRT Mike]

The DT has 1G of axis acceleration with a table load of 150# according to their 2010 brochure. They say up to 500# in that brochure with reduced acceleration. You don't make any sense when you say you don't need fast spindle or axis acceleration. If not than why even look at a machine like this in the first place? Anyone looking for a drill tap machine is looking for the fastest machine possible, otherwise they would be looking for a standard 40 taper vmc.

Not being too concerned with axis and spindle acceleration makes perfect sense. The job I run now takes about 1.5 hours for a fixture that's loaded with parts. Probably 99% of that time is in the cut, 3D profiling, with the spindle flat out. I don't care if one machine accelerates a bit faster, because it's irrelevant to me other than bragging rights. If the machine is jumping all over the place from feature to feature and using lots of tools, then I think those numbers matter a lot. But for what I do, there are very few changes in spindle speed and very little rapid movements because I've optimized my programs to the maximum.

MTBF on the toolchanger is just as important as MTBF on any part of the machine. If the cycle start button broke what would you do? If you measure your tools offline there won't be much difference between setup times with 14 tools vs 20 tools. Just put in the tool and type in the offset. Even if your measuring tools in the machine as long as you don't break the tool down you can still write down the offset and save it for next time. The only time the smaller carousel will matter is if you need more that 14 tools for a part your machining.

This argument is ridiculous... you're really arguing that MTBF on a toolchanger is more important than tool capacity? There are exactly 0.0 guys in the entire world who prioritize toolchanger MTBF over tool capacity. I could measure my tools offline and drop them in the changer and punch in an offset, but with a larger changer, I don't need to do that ever. I just leave the tools in. 14 tools is not a deal breaker, but you might as well argue that spindle speed doesn't matter.

Your not adding a 5th to an eco. To a standard robodrill you can add a 5th. The eco allows only a 4th but it can be the direct drive 4th which is fast as hell.

That's another area where the Eco falls short.

There probably giving you the "tire kicker" price. The experience I've had is the brothers are more economical than the robodrills. There also more options to the brother line. They have moving table designs and moving column designs. They have the robodrill style toolchanger or a side arm toolchanger with 40 tool capacity. They also have models with built in lazy susan style pallet changers. The high torque spindle option has 67 ft/lbs of tq and 35 HP! I better stop talking before I sell my self a brother.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a tire kicker price - it came from the President of Brother North America just before he visited our shop to talk about getting us into Brother tools. Everyone talks about the Brother machines as if they are a bargain. Maybe I'm just frustrated with hearing that so often, but how many people saying that have a price?

When I got the quote, I heard "oh that's just list price... they'll come WAY down". Nope. It was already a good bit below list. Now I hear "Oh, that was back then, I'm sure they are MUCH lower now". They ain't. That's what those Brother machines cost. They start at $100k with no options. I wish they were less - but they aren't.

 

[SRT Mike]

I'd check out the Brother pricing again now that the Yen is nosediving. Robodrills have always been pricey, but Brothers had a great price point just a few years ago. I'd expect today's price to be wayyyyy less than the $108K you were shown before.

But what was the price a few years ago? Did you get a quote? When was it and for what machine and options and what was the quote?

I think the "Brother machines are a great value" thing is an Internet myth. Everyone says it, but nobody knows anyone who got any of these great deals, except back in 1995

 

[CBlair]

It is always so much more fun spending someone elses money rather than your own....

The tool change on the Haas seems almost to fast to believe, I also would worry about it failing and what damage that can cause. The arm is long and seems small from the perspective you get in the videos I have seen of it functioning. For that design I would prefer it worked slower and perfect every time rather than trying to make it out pace itself. It will be fine for the first year or two but I do wonder how long it can last.

Of course my mill is 13 yrs old and the rigid tapping still seems like magic to me. I am sure the engineers would have figured out most of the problems. But then I look at the short comings on my TL1 lathe and I wonder if these were just dumb ideas that got missed or did Haas just decide they had spent enough money and needed to get the product out no mater how it performed? I am sure a bit of that goes with any machine but I would not generally expect that from the Japanese.

Charles

 

[Edster]

Not being too concerned with axis and spindle acceleration makes perfect sense. The job I run now takes about 1.5 hours for a fixture that's loaded with parts. Probably 99% of that time is in the cut, 3D profiling, with the spindle flat out. I don't care if one machine accelerates a bit faster, because it's irrelevant to me other than bragging rights. If the machine is jumping all over the place from feature to feature and using lots of tools, then I think those numbers matter a lot. But for what I do, there are very few changes in spindle speed and very little rapid movements because I've optimized my programs to the maximum.

This argument is ridiculous... you're really arguing that MTBF on a toolchanger is more important than tool capacity? There are exactly 0.0 guys in the entire world who prioritize toolchanger MTBF over tool capacity. I could measure my tools offline and drop them in the changer and punch in an offset, but with a larger changer, I don't need to do that ever. I just leave the tools in. 14 tools is not a deal breaker, but you might as well argue that spindle speed doesn't matter.

That's another area where the Eco falls short.

I'm pretty sure it wasn't a tire kicker price - it came from the President of Brother North America just before he visited our shop to talk about getting us into Brother tools. Everyone talks about the Brother machines as if they are a bargain. Maybe I'm just frustrated with hearing that so often, but how many people saying that have a price?

When I got the quote, I heard "oh that's just list price... they'll come WAY down". Nope. It was already a good bit below list. Now I hear "Oh, that was back then, I'm sure they are MUCH lower now". They ain't. That's what those Brother machines cost. They start at $100k with no options. I wish they were less - but they aren't.

Does the DT have a faster spindle than the ECO, YES.

Is the DT more powerfull with an advertised 6 ft/lb advantage, Highly doubtful because Haas overrates their spindles.

Is the DT faster with 2400 IPM at 1G vs the ECO at 2125 IPM at 1.5G, possibly under the right circumstances but 99% of the time, NO.

Does the DT hold 6 more tools in it's magazine then the ECO, YES.

Does the DT have anywhere near the reputation of a Robodrill for reliability, HELL NO.

Is the DT's list price 16k less than the ECO's list price, YES. But the more important question is which machine has the lowest cost of ownership.

I dont know what to tell you except go back and re-read what everybody has told you in this thread about robodrills and brothers. And just because you didn't get the price quote you wanted doesn't mean everybody else is FOS.

It's obvious that you have your rose (Haas) colored glasses on. That's fine I don't care which machine you choose to buy. I didn't chime in to try to spend your money either (charles ) But for some reason I just can't keep my mouth shut when someone is spewing total BS about how they can buy two DT's + tooling + air compressor + a trip to london for the price of a robodrill.

 

[Edster]

Thanks for the tip. Any idea what they go for? I'm not looking to buy something right away (or maybe not even that soon), but I hate calling the sales guys when I am just looking - all they want to say is "they cost around.... " and "give us a call when you're ready to buy"

If you think the price of robodrill and brother machines is high get ready for serious sticker shock if you get a quote on a mori milltap. Our mori sales guy doesn't even like to quote them because he knows he doesn't stand a chance with them.

 

[SRT Mike]

Does the DT have a faster spindle than the ECO, YES.

Is the DT more powerfull with an advertised 6 ft/lb advantage, Highly doubtful because Haas overrates their spindles.

Is the DT faster with 2400 IPM at 1G vs the ECO at 2125 IPM at 1.5G, possibly under the right circumstances but 99% of the time, NO.

Does the DT hold 6 more tools in it's magazine then the ECO, YES.

Does the DT have anywhere near the reputation of a Robodrill for reliability, HELL NO.

Is the DT's list price 16k less than the ECO's list price, YES. But the more important question is which machine has the lowest cost of ownership.

I dont know what to tell you except go back and re-read what everybody has told you in this thread about robodrills and brothers. And just because you didn't get the price quote you wanted doesn't mean everybody else is FOS.

It's obvious that you have your rose (Haas) colored glasses on. That's fine I don't care which machine you choose to buy. I didn't chime in to try to spend your money either (charles ) But for some reason I just can't keep my mouth shut when someone is spewing total BS about how they can buy two DT's + tooling + air compressor + a trip to london for the price of a robodrill.

Come on, you're a well known Haas basher (as I just today discovered when looking at Haas threads - you're in all of them and always bashing the Haas). You're so biased that you make ridiculous arguments like "it doesn't matter if it holds 6 more tools, MTBF matters more" , and you think anyone who doesn't think Haas are total shit has "Haas colored glasses on". I'm realistic. I don't think the Haas is as capable as the Brother. But neither does Haas - that's why they sell it for less than half the price.

Fact of the matter is the Robodrill is (alot) more than twice the price of the DT-1. The Eco is not the same machine. It has some of the same features, but is lacking in some key areas. I may end up getting an Eco or a Robodrill. I don't have a conclusion I am trying to work towards. I think the Robo is probably more reliable than a DT-1, but I don't buy the anecdotal evidence like when people say they know a guy who sold ten Haas machines at half what he paid a year earlier, just to get a Mori that produces more than the 10 Haas' did. There is a shop near me with ten DT-1's that run 24/7 and have for about 2 years and the Haas salesman showed me the service history which consisted of a door switch and a cable. They cut titanium all day. That's what I have seen with my own eyes.

As for pricing, well that is something that there really is no room to debate. The price is the price. I have quotes from Methods on a Robodrill D-series and Brother for a SD-2N. Do you? The Brother and Fanuc prices are what they are. Don't try to put the machines on a level footing because you know a guy who knows a guy who said he once bought a Brother for the same price as a Haas. Unless we are talking about a different Methods machine or a different Brother Yamazen. They don't cost the same as the Haas, not even close.

 

[dstryr]

I have a price on the s2d from 3 months ago....they have come up. We paid somewhere in the low 60s for our s2b. Price on s2d was 80k. We bought 1 more s2b and a s2c-0 used for 65k instead but I still feel for 80k you get a killer machine. We have used brother cncs since 1999 and have no complaints. A couple spindles over 13 years and one tool gripper. Do you think that haas will give you 13+ years of service at 100%? Compare 20-30k total price difference on a 3-5 year lease payment.

 

[Edster]

Come on, you're a well known Haas basher (as I just today discovered when looking at Haas threads - you're in all of them and always bashing the Haas). You're so biased that you make ridiculous arguments like "it doesn't matter if it holds 6 more tools, MTBF matters more" , and you think anyone who doesn't think Haas are total shit has "Haas colored glasses on". I'm realistic. I don't think the Haas is as capable as the Brother. But neither does Haas - that's why they sell it for less than half the price.

Fact of the matter is the Robodrill is (alot) more than twice the price of the DT-1. The Eco is not the same machine. It has some of the same features, but is lacking in some key areas. I may end up getting an Eco or a Robodrill. I don't have a conclusion I am trying to work towards. I think the Robo is probably more reliable than a DT-1, but I don't buy the anecdotal evidence like when people say they know a guy who sold ten Haas machines at half what he paid a year earlier, just to get a Mori that produces more than the 10 Haas' did. There is a shop near me with ten DT-1's that run 24/7 and have for about 2 years and the Haas salesman showed me the service history which consisted of a door switch and a cable. They cut titanium all day. That's what I have seen with my own eyes.

As for pricing, well that is something that there really is no room to debate. The price is the price. I have quotes from Methods on a Robodrill D-series and Brother for a SD-2N. Do you? The Brother and Fanuc prices are what they are. Don't try to put the machines on a level footing because you know a guy who knows a guy who said he once bought a Brother for the same price as a Haas. Unless we are talking about a different Methods machine or a different Brother Yamazen. They don't cost the same as the Haas, not even close.

LOL! Like I said buy what you want I don't care.

The robodrill ECO is about as close as your gonna get to the base model DT. Are there some trade offs, yes, but I believe the ECO still comes out on top. If all you can see is the list price of the machine and you must have 6 extra tools and 2k more rpm than by all means go with the DT.

The prices I have for brother machines and Robodrills have come from Yamazan and Methods. I don't know what to tell you here. You may not have got the price you wanted but that doesn't mean I or others that have posted here are FOS.

 

[Seekins]

If you guys are pricing machines only based on the initial "price" you are missing the boat big time. With 3 robodrills (24000rpm ones that "dont last") in 3 years i have replaced um....the way lube..and they have ran pretty much 24/7 and rarely get shut off. Buddy has 2 DT's one first generation 15k spindle and one new one. Both have had more than 2 spindles replaced (4 on the first i belive). sure they are cheaper, sure they make parts but the accell/decell is not on par, surface finish is not the same and tool life is not the same.

Now the DT's are out of warentee, so he can expect 2+ spindles per year (based on experience). We all know life expectancy of haas machines are not as long, so add life expectancy, repair, less tool life and down time into the cost and then tell me how much cheaper they are?? My VF2SS thats about 2 years old is starting to show some signs of getting loose and its babied..Maybe it doesnt matter to some but for us the Haas is the most expensive machine we have owned even if the initial cost was less.

If the DT was only 20% of the cost of X machine i still wouldn't have one.

 

[Seekins]

My understanding from talking with Seekins about it at a shooting match is- small aluminum parts (he runs his scope rings) with a 3/8" tool or smaller. He said 17K RPM, HSM toolpaths, and stand back and watch the thing rip. He said his Robodrills gave better finish than his VF2SS or his Mori and did it much faster.

So if you have steady demand for a smallish aluminum part, and cycle time is the bottle neck.... the Robodrill seems to make sense. From what I hear, they are dead reliable, Seekins said his having been running for 3 years without a single issue. He has a buddy across town with a few DT's and between performance and service calls they do not match the output of a single Robodrill.

We run quite a few steel parts on the robodrills as well. Its all in the programming. They dont have the power to take a very big cut with a 1/2" endmill but they have the accuracy and speed to take smaller cuts at stupid feed rates. Ya my programs are larger. When you figure out how to work within the parameters of the machine (not your old school standard programming methods) and take advantage of the speed they have i have won on cycle time every single time with the VF2SS.