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Hardinge best?

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
"Another POS, in your view, too, I suppose?"
That's a lie. I never said either the myford or the atlas were anthing other than decent lathes.

I just drew a sharp parallel between the two. You're the one passing out the insults.
 

Mark Rand

Diamond
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Location
UK Rugby Warwickshire
Not sure about the 'very expensive' bit, but my* long bed ML7B long bed was £168/10/5d. Ok, that was in 1966 But it's still here and still in in good condition. 7" swing, 10" in the gap bed, 30" between centres, Norton gearbox. Having said that, after I used it to make all the shafts, gears and clutches for the complete rebuild of my 1952 HLV's apron gearbox, it has seen very little use.But without the Myford, I wouldn't have a working HLV.

*Dad said it was my birthday present. I didn't get sole possession of it until 2004, but I learned 'the art' on that lathe.
 

trevj

Titanium
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Interior British Columbia
"Another POS, in your view, too, I suppose?"
That's a lie. I never said either the myford or the atlas were anthing other than decent lathes.

I just drew a sharp parallel between the two. You're the one passing out the insults.

Gee, sorry you feel that way. Especially about the 'lie' thing, as that was a question, not a lie.

In an environment where Atlas Lathe are generally not even allowed to be talked or asked about, pretty much, describing any lathe as being any kind of similar to an Atlas, is an insult to it. And, to be truthful, your earlier description of the Myford as "Myford = very expensive self-important Atlas 9" machine.", is too.

I'd figure you'd stick to what you know. And I figure you should, too.

Try one out if you ever get a chance. They have little in common with an Atlas, other than the basic shape of the ways.

What Myford did, was produce a 'decent' quality lathe, in an era when, to be frank, most of what was available to a home shop guy, was at a level of crap, that would have to look up, to meet the standards of even the cheapest Chinese mini lathe. If you look at the adverts that were running in the trade and hobby magazines at the time the Myford was introduced, you would see that the truly horrible stuff that was foisted of at hobbyist accessible prices, was no where near the value or use that a small Atlas machine was, though even an Atlas would have been a huge step up!
I have read of a great many small Industrial and War Effort shops that ran Myfords, and South Bends, but Atlas never seemed to come up, even in the Post War period.

They are not a competitor with the Hardinge (other than price-wise, at the end), now or then, but they certainly are not in the same class as an Atlas, ever!
 

Doozer

Titanium
Joined
Jul 23, 2001
Location
Buffalo NY
A Myford is light years better than an Atlas.
A Myford is like a SouthBend, only with box ways instead.

When a Hardinge HLV-H is worn out, they are really worn out.
Water based coolant will KILL a Hardinge lathe.
Another thing about HLV-H lathes, is that the dovetail bed is a design flaw.
Force to move the carriage comes from the drive pinion or the half nuts.
Being at the front of the lathe (side of the bed), these movement forces
are distributed diagonally across the bed to the opposite corner from where
the force was applied. So force from the drive pinion moves the front half
of the carriage dovetail and it causes the rear of the dovetail to bear on
the bed, back near the oil pump area. This long diagonal bearing forces
serve to crook the carriage. When wear develops in the carriage and bed,
this will cause the carriage to crab. This means, and OD cut or move away
from the chuck causes the tool tip to retract. It also means an ID cut with a
boring bar, causes the tool tip to drag, when moved away from the chuck.
Sooo... The classic inverted vee way bed suffers from this to a much lesser
extent. The diagonal drive force is distributed along the front vee way itself,
and the angle is much more shallow. Just the width of the vee way, not across
the width of the bed. Tool pulling away and dragging effects are much less
pronounced with inverted vee way lathes.
So when Hardinge lathes develop wear, it really shows up in the ability to
hold size more than a inverted vee bed lathe. It is either an oversight or
they thought it was not a problem when their lathes were new.
My 1920 Caratact QC swing lathe is an inverted vee way bed.
They should have stuck with this design. This is why the 10EE has it
over the Hardinge HLV-H. Better bed intrinsic design.

-----Doozer
 

BGL

Hot Rolled
Joined
Sep 14, 2010
Location
Maryland, USA
Dear Morsetaper 2,

It is obvious that you are going through "The Hardinge Rush".

The South Bend makes noise. the Hardinge doesn't.

The Hardinge is smooth as hell, older South Bend's aren't apt to be.

The Hardinge is the Flashy Las Vegas Blende Girl, The South Bend is the Girl Next Door.

Yeah, a guy can get excited. I know the feeling.

Only one thing. I apprenticed at The National Bureau of Standards (That is NIST now, just down the street from you in Gaithersburg)

I ran the HLV-H 'till I got tired of it. It was our everyday lathe.

When I went into business for myself, my NBS ticket would get me into The Univesity of Maryland shops when things got slow and I had to support a wife and daughter.

I worked at the Physics Department Shop and at The Wind Tunnel Shop. I bought the Hauser No 5 jig borer out out of the shop you worked at. (Space Science).

Keep your South Bend, Bub!

Tha Hardinge HLV-H is no good at slow speeds. In Low Motor, you are apt to stall the motor if you are working steel at sensible speeds in a three or four jaw chuck.

There are no Back Gears on That Thing.

Forget about short, skinny pieces between centers. There is too much tailstock interferance to allow room for the carriage to take the turning cut without extending the tailstock spindle way out too far for good lathe practice.

If you have a contract to turn and thread complex aerospace parts on a production basis, go ahead and invest in the Hardinge Lathe, there are few better lathes for the work than that

If you want a lathe for the Home Shop, stick with the Good Ole South Bend.

There is no reason to use a Ferrari to make a milk run to the 7-11.

There is no reason to use a Hardinge HLV-H for Home Shop Work.

Don't impoverish your family because you are fascinated by the Blonde Girl you saw at The University of Maryland.

I dated her for four years, she ain't the girl you want to have meet the folks.

I have run the Hardinge, I have run the South Bend. I will turn out the same lathe work to the same tolerances and the same finishes on either machine.

I am a Machinsit

"I'll Take Your Bet, You're Gonna regret.

I'm The Best There's Ever Been!"

Jim Kizale

That HLV he speaks of was in MY shop in JM Patterson @ UMD. There are few I allowed to touch MY girl.

I walked past an HLV at the tender age of 16 in 1976.
Like my first, she [spindle] whispered in my ear, take me to your room. I haven't recovered from either experience yet.

I just picked one up last week, we are the same age and she has been well cared for and freshened up - as smooth as new.

Your are not wrong about her short list of limitations. Have you tried insert tooling on steel, 1/3 the power required and the finish astonishing.

No one tool or machine does everything perfect - no one girl is perfect but she's the girl for me and now I have her and she's all mine.
I will bejewel her with the latest tooling and DRO.

We will be happy together.
 

triumph406

Titanium
Joined
Sep 14, 2008
Location
ca
Another thing about HLV-H lathes, is that the dovetail bed is a design flaw.


-----Doozer

Hard to understand that Hardinge would use the same flawed design thru to the CHNC Super-Precision lathes.

But then you've probably forgotten more about lathe design sitting on the toilet then Hardinge engineers will ever know.
 

majohnson

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Erie, CO
Even with some wear on one you can hold some amazing tolerances. To rebuild an HLV-H last year was $30K from Paul Babin, and about double that from Hardinge direct. For those that need UN and Metric but can’t find a dual thread machine, look at the servo unit that Paul Babin has developed. The servo unit eliminates the need for change gears.
 
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Peter Colman

Stainless
Joined
Sep 22, 2004
Location
Rugeley UK
I have run Hardinge and Myford in my home workshop. The Myford even new is not in the same class as the Hardinge, yes there is no backgear or gap in the bed but there is no comparison in stiffness, try parting off.
the ideal is to have a larger machine as well.
 
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
HLVH, South Bend, Atlas, Shaulblin, 10EE, Myford, Take your blinders off guys the best small lathe by far is the Holbrook C13. The carriage on this 30" center distance lathe is 26" wide. The bed is 12" front to back, it cuts any thread without any change gears, just move the lever. It is the stiffest lathe I have ever used, part off whatever you want it will not chatter. It weighs over 4000 lbs! More than 4 SB "heavy " 10s. If you have never used one you don't know what you are missing. I have used all the lathes listed except a Shaublin so I have a pretty good idea what I am talking about,
 

trevj

Titanium
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Interior British Columbia
I have run Hardinge and Myford in my home workshop. The Myford even new is not in the same class as the Hardinge, yes there is no backgear or gap in the bed but there is no comparison in stiffness, try parting off.
the ideal is to have a larger machine as well.
I agree fully. My point was, that comparing Myford to Atlas, was high order foolishness.

I had the pleasure of running a Schaublin 150, in one of the shops I worked in. An amazing machine tool by about any standards. Should I win a lottery, I'll own one! Meantime, I am pretty happy with my Myford, as worn as it is, as it has helped me to be able to repair a great number of minor little projects along the way, and is quite a serviceable, though small, lathe.

Myford is =/=to a Hardinge! Myford =/=Atlas too, in the other direction.
 

trevj

Titanium
Joined
May 17, 2005
Location
Interior British Columbia
HLVH, South Bend, Atlas, Shaulblin, 10EE, Myford, Take your blinders off guys the best small lathe by far is the Holbrook C13. The carriage on this 30" center distance lathe is 26" wide. The bed is 12" front to back, it cuts any thread without any change gears, just move the lever. It is the stiffest lathe I have ever used, part off whatever you want it will not chatter. It weighs over 4000 lbs! More than 4 SB "heavy " 10s. If you have never used one you don't know what you are missing. I have used all the lathes listed except a Shaublin so I have a pretty good idea what I am talking about,
Keep preaching gospel like that and soon enough, you won't be able to buy a Holbrook for love or money! LOL!
 

majohnson

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Erie, CO
My introduction to HLV-H was by luck. There was one for sale, I bought it not even knowing how to turn it on. I had to replace some parts, but I had figured that out beforehand. It been an amazing machine, they have such a big advantage over lathes when it comes to threading. My next purchase for it will be Babin’s threading conversion. Since I do so much threading it will be a great addition.
 








 
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