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Hardinge Conquest 42 SP experience?

Mike RzMachine

Cast Iron
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Location
Utah
I'm looking at a 2 axis 1992 CS-SP 42 with an 0TC control, 36k hours on the counter in the enclosure and wanted to get some thoughts. I'm coordinating with the rigging warehouse where it is stored to power it up. The current owner doesn't know much about it and isn't a machinist. All of the machine work I do is in support of my design work, with the largest number of parts in the hundreds for now. From what I've read, these were very accurate and light on spindle power, which is a good trade off for me, this is within the capacity of my RPC. This would be my first cnc lathe and I've never run one. I'm planning to check for intact parameters, and run/inspect for gross issues with the spindle, axes, turrent, and tail stock.

Aside from the major functions, can anyone point me to any problem areas to look over more thoroughly? My understanding is that this machine is built from a polymer granite. Are there common areas that crack? It was moved from the last shop by a solid rigging company so was likely handled properly.

Any thoughts on living with an older 0T control? will it rigid tap? It doesn't have a tool probe arm, is that reasonable to retrofit? I'll post the build sheets.

Thanks,
Mike20220825_092056_resized.jpg
 
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Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
A) I scrapped out my probe arm. I just "touch off".
A flashlight and a good eye and a test cut get you there with no issues.

B) I don't know of any issues with the base. Just don't try to take it to the scrap yard.

C) No on the Rigid Tap unless someone bought the option. IF it was even an option on a 0 control, or in '92 at all?
I highly doubt it!

D) 36K hours - sounds like it's almost new?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
I have a 1990 42SP

The control is plenty capable. 0TC is not anything to get excited over, but it's the most produced CNC control in history. It works and does everything a new lathe control does. Hardinge tried to put their own fancy UI spin on the Fanuc operator console so that takes some getting used to. They tried to Haasify the Fanuc with a ton of buttons.

On mine, the tailstock mounts fractured out of the indestructible "Harcrete" early in it's life. Definitely wouldn't have happened if it were iron.

These aren't bad machines, but IMO, buying one of these was a big eye opener because I'd always heard great things about Hardinge.

Nothing whatsoever about the Hardinge has impressed me at all. Build quality is poor. Nothing is thought out. Concrete base makes it a liability when it's dead.

I only bought mine because it has a bar feeder, live tools and low electrical needs so I can run it and my HMC at the same time on RPC power. It runs and makes good parts. I shake my head any time I open the electrical cabinet and see the shitshow Hardinge calls cable management.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Well go ahead and mention them, whatever you feel that they are.

The bulk of my turret issues are self induced (bad crash) or from a bad I/O card.
Not something that the next guy is likely to emulate.

???


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

wmpy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
We bought a brand new Conquest 42 in 1988. It was our first CNC, and we still have it. We also have another one that we bought used about 15 years ago. They are both used every day in a production environment with the ability to hold .0005” diameter tolerances. If the machines were problematic, we would not still have them.

The biggest problem area over other lathes would be the turret. We have rebuilt the turret on our original machine, I think, three times. The first time wasn’t too long after we got it. Hardinge wanted us to send them the turret for rebuilding with some crazy lead time, but we didn’t have time for that, so we rebuilt it ourselves. We had to make some special tools to get it apart, but we did it. The Hardinge engineers actually wanted us to send them photos of the tools we made. We were a little bitter about the whole situation, so we did not oblige. Knock on wood, but the turret has been problem free for quite a while now. I think we must have really nailed the rebuild the last time we did it. I believe the problem was coolant infiltration into the gearbox that would then destroy the bearings. I don’t think we’ve ever had to do the turret on our other machine. It’s a few years newer, and they might have changed the gearbox design by then. Anyway, I would just watch and listen to the indexing while indexing the turret in both directions. Make sure nothing sounds bad or looks remarkably loose.

I have never heard of a Harcrete base cracking except in Garwood’s case. The tailstock has a breakaway feature where it can get pushed down if you hit it with the turret from above. There is also a limit switch that puts the machine in E-stop if the tailstock does get moved. I have a hard time imagining how the machine could have had the tailstock mounts broken off even in a bad crash. Maybe the crash was in the Z+ direction, and the tailstock couldn’t move down? Or maybe they tried to lift the entire machine by the tailstock?

The 0T control is fine as others have said. The only downside is that the related Fanuc components can be a bit expensive to get repaired if they fail. This is compared to newer Fanuc spindle and servo drives. All the Fanuc stuff can be repaired, it’s just that the age of it has the repairs more costly.

@Garwood, what is this fancy UI that you have on your machine? Mine both look exactly like standard Fanuc 0T controls that I have on other machines (Takisawa, Miyano, Wasino). If you have a picture of it, I’d be curious to see it. Maybe your SP machine is different from my non-SP machines? I’m not really sure of all the differences between the two. I think the SP has a cooling unit on it to try to stabilize temps. I imagine there is something different about the positioning feedback. Scales?

I don’t find the build quality to be any different from the Japanese machines I have from the era. Maybe the cable management is bad. I don’t know. That’s not something that affects your day-to-day functioning of the machine.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Did you have to replace the curvic coupling on yours?
Mine (51) was shot after not that many years. But I have way more hours on it since then,. and it is in great condition yet, so ....

I've never heard anyone else ever mention that, so I'm guessing that it's not normal.

???


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

wmpy

Hot Rolled
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
No, I don't believe we ever had to replace the curvic coupling. I would have to look in the records. I have seen some pitted curvic couplings that still work fine. What was wrong with yours that warranted replacement?
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
It bottomed out and had (radial) slop.
I was getting inconsistencies in something, and it took a bit to figger out.

Last I had it apart, there was still a lot of daylight in there.
IDK what the issue was?

Possibly the 1850 value in a somewhat bind?
Maybe they weren't hard?
I have no clue, b/c the replacements have been super, and likely has at least 2wiced as many hours on it since?

However, my current set-up on that machine doesn't have a worm drive on it anymore, so there is no bind, even if it is set wrong.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

Mickey_D

Stainless
Joined
Apr 18, 2006
Location
Austin, TX
I am not as good as Ox so I never want another lathe without a touchsetter. They just make setups so much easier and faster for the parts that I run. As for Hardinges, I have a Talent 8/52 lathe, a GX480APC mill, and an HLV-H and an ancient HLV-BK lathes. They seem to keep a decent parts inventory but talking to the right person can be an adventure, but I have always been able to get parts or they have helped find a generic replacement. Are there any good service guys in your area?
 

GENERALDISARRAY

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Well go ahead and mention them, whatever you feel that they are.

The bulk of my turret issues are self induced (bad crash) or from a bad I/O card.
Not something that the next guy is likely to emulate.

???


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
I remember all the work you did on a conquest turret, I guess it was self induced. But I think that is how it should have been designed from the factory.

The issues I have had were the aluminum toothed belt pulleys corroding, the gearbox being sloppy and the curvic teeth rusting away.

I think they are great lathes. But if you had to populate a con column I think the turret issues should be on there.

And I dont think the membrane operator panel is available anymore.
 

Garwood

Diamond
Joined
Oct 10, 2009
Location
Oregon
I have never heard of a Harcrete base cracking except in Garwood’s case. The tailstock has a breakaway feature where it can get pushed down if you hit it with the turret from above. There is also a limit switch that puts the machine in E-stop if the tailstock does get moved. I have a hard time imagining how the machine could have had the tailstock mounts broken off even in a bad crash. Maybe the crash was in the Z+ direction, and the tailstock couldn’t move down? Or maybe they tried to lift the entire machine by the tailstock?

I didn't break the tailstock off. I bought it that way. Hilariously, I bought it under the pretense that it never had a tailstock. Chips covered the Harcrete nubs when I looked it over. All the hydraulics and wires were tucked away neatly hidden from view.

In the Harcrete, you can see hundreds of small fractures with coolant infiltration and discoloring on the chuck side broken mount. Like it was cracked, but not broken away for awhile. Total speculation, but it looks more like a long term fatigue type of failure than a crash bang instantaneous thing on the front mount. The rear mount looks like it failed suddenly. Big chunks missing, no small fractures.

There's no possible way you could lift the machine with the tailstock. Come on.

I don't care for the Hardinge membrane button UI. It works, but it's not for me.

I don't believe the build quality is anywhere near the same as most other CNC lathe builders. It works, it makes money, but it's not a machine that would ever make you say "Boy Hardinge sure knew what they were doing and really engineered a winner here!" It's just so-so IMO.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
I am not as good as Ox so I never want another lathe without a touchsetter. They just make setups so much easier and faster for the parts that I run. As for Hardinges, I have a Talent 8/52 lathe, a GX480APC mill, and an HLV-H and an ancient HLV-BK lathes. They seem to keep a decent parts inventory but talking to the right person can be an adventure, but I have always been able to get parts or they have helped find a generic replacement. Are there any good service guys in your area?

Didn't see this post:


"My guy" was a Hardinge tech that got spun off to Gosiger when they changed gears. Gosiger's service schedule is behind - like everyone else these days.

Hardinge is trying to get their own sales and service back going, but I don't think that they have gotten much gain there as of yet. I think that they are likely concentrating more on growing their in-house building dept in stead.

I mostly only use their service for dicking with the Siemens control tho.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

Mike RzMachine

Cast Iron
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Location
Utah
thanks for all of the info everyone. It sounds like its probably a solid basic machine if everything functions quietly and I will look closely at any spots I can on the harcrete structure for cracks.

This machine has a bar feeder, but It is not on site. Can anyone point me to the parameter that disables the barfeeder to allow me to run without it connected? I'm assuming it's similar to my robodrill pallet changer, where the control needs to get feedback from the bar feeder in order to enable the drives.
 

GENERALDISARRAY

Hot Rolled
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
you put the machine in e-stop and hold down a button I dont remember which one, that puts it into option display mode. You can toggle the barfeed on and off in that mode. Its in the manual.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
We may be able to help you if you post a pic of the lower half of your HMI.
As was posted above, it involves pushing this and that, but I don't know your 1988 keyboard.

Ass_u_ming that it is the same as my 1994 18T HMI, then I think that you would:

A) Put into E-stop
B) Press the E-stop Reset button down. You should see a few LED's light up towards the left of your panel
C) Hit BLOCK SKIP to turn OFF the LED.

Does that fit with your machine?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

Mike RzMachine

Cast Iron
Joined
Feb 4, 2007
Location
Utah
I got to check this machine out under power yesterday. I had to work through a few items to get it to power up and run but it does run. I got the 2 axes to zero reference and the spindle running. All seemed smooth.

The headstock collet closer works but I couldn't get the tailstock to.move. Also couldn't figure out the turret zrn procedure from the manuals.

Is there a trick to getting the tailstock to jog? I tried the tailstock arrows in jog mode and no motion. The right arrow led was lit up solid. Not sure if there's some reference procedure or if this is just not working.

The turret zrn procedure in the manual was pretty cryptic. From what I read, if I got to this point, the turret is likely fine, with some possibility of needing to mess with the prox sensors. Does it seem low risk to buy without seeing the turret index?

Thanks again for all the advice.
Mike
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Not sure what a '92 panel looks like (prolly the same) but on a '94 you hold down the ZERO RETURN button down by the E-STOP, and then also hit the TURRET INDEX button above the turret station dial.

It will HOME to pos1. The dial is not functional in this app.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

DouglasJRizzo

Titanium
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Location
Ramsey, NJ.
From the data sheet provided, the machine does not have the G80 series of cycles, so tapping is not provided. However, it DOES have Custom Macro B, so you could write your own cycles and then access them when needed. You could also use a floating holder or a tap head to accomplish tapping. It also has extended memory, G70 series cycles, and corner radius/chamfer. It will get your parts done.
 








 
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