Hardinge / Elgin lathe restoration

[Dave.Phillips]

Irby and Jim

Jim it will be interesting to see what the dating info will show if Larry can help Larry dated mine at 1907.

Irby thanks!!! To much information for me to respond back on all of that however the chuck information you gave was exactly what I was thinking!

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Today I got the headstock apart actually this was extremely simple!! I will post my process on disassembly soon.

Ok what can we use to replace the oil wicks inside the casting?

 

[jim rozen]

I think I used round felt stock.

 

[IrbyJones]

So Jim's headstock is earlier than mine., #182 vs #306. Looks like they changed the shape of the bearing thrust preload thing that is fastened to the cone pulley between the two headstock versions.

And Jim's has the collet closer that is attached on the bottom to the headstock. Mine didn't come with any collet closer and I hadn't noticed the two tapped holes on the back of my headstock, so mine could have also had the same type of collet closer. Although I think those holes are also for attaching the threading attachment, and mine did come on a bed with the rear T-slot.

Mine is also missing the rear brass collar that shields the bearing. I'll have to scrounge one or make one some day.



Irby

 

[IrbyJones]

Today I got the headstock apart actually this was extremely simple!! I will post my process on disassembly soon.

Ok what can we use to replace the oil wicks inside the casting?

BE EXTRA CAREFUL OF THE BEARINGS! THEY ARE EXTREMELY FRAGILE AND BREAK EASILY! And no replacements can generally be found. You would have to make them!

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

BE EXTRA CAREFUL OF THE BEARINGS! THEY ARE EXTREMELY FRAGILE AND BREAK EASILY! And no replacements can generally be found. You would have to make them!

Irby

The collet looking things that are basically sleeves Irby is what they call bearing I believe. They came right out!!

 

[IrbyJones]

The collet looking things that are basically sleeves Irby is what they call bearing I believe. They came right out!!

Yeah, the adjusting screw is about all that holds them in once the spindle is out. And figuring out which one goes where is easy - the thicker looking one goes in the rear where the spindle diameter is smaller. Hardinge seemed to make the bores in the headstock ends and the bearing OD's the same, so the bearing ID's had to vary.

I didn't mean to make you think they are as fragile as glass, but they are brittle and thin walled, so if they roll off your work bench onto the floor, they will probably break.

Irby

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Thanks Irby ... wouldn't be the first time things end up on the floor it's like magic lol

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Hi all ... just wanted to give an update on we're I'm currently at....

Remember I'm not a machinist or expert anything!! Just having some fun and posting my progress for some help and that others may have a reference if and when they may be following along at home

Talking about help as mentioned before we have been discussing a lot of stuff regarding this lathe in the below link that maybe of interest to others at sometime..

Elgin / Hardinge lathe help

Hello all!! I can use some help with my next resurrection... I just got this lathe and I'm needing some help with the thread size on the head and some ideas what changes this lathe had. Ok what I know ... ( or I think I know lol ) 1) The bed is a number 4 Elgin 32" with the optional...

www.practicalmachinist.com

Tailstock: Ok I'm not going to get into detail on assembly because if you disassembled it then assembly is straight forward. However I wanted fix a statement above regarding that threaded tube inside the we're the lead screw threads in. I didn't remove mine and mentioned that a flathead screwdriver should remove the unit if you needed to. After a closer look it appears that it's actually lightly pressed in. I'd imagine that one should be able to access it using the access hole on the bottom of Tailstock lightly tapping it out.

Ok the tailstock casting is now painted and partially assembled. I'm waiting for handles to dry and it's taking FOREVER errr... I will send photos of it soon when completed and discussing the handles at that point.

Tailstock casting: Well I'm not actually impressed with the quality of work done at the foundry. A lathe of this caliber I was expecting to see better casting cleaning and minimal tooling marks and I didn't. Now I'm a big fan of painted casting without glazing the casting and or using fillers to smooth it all out. I just like that raw look and it appears Hardinge painted this that way also for I didn't see any glazing or fillers used to hide the mess.

Tailstock prep and painting: Normally I would use my diy grinder however my shop isn't setup because of the move so I used my sandblaster. Medium grit metal oxide medium. This works great and leaves a good finish for the primer to grip into. I'm also a fan of Rust-Oleum whe using a spray can paint. Self etching gray primer was used and semi-gloss black paint. Remember don't sandblast or paint the bottom of stock or inside the tube we're the ram slides or you will regret it!!!
As mentioned I just painted over the raw casting as I'm not making a museum lathe lol. I live in Florida so anything not painted will rust away in a day!

Photos cuming when paint is dry

 

[Dave.Phillips]

It's the weekend again and getting hot in Florida and that slows things down for me also...

Well looks like I have to start over with the handles because the paint isn't curing. I tried using Rust-Oleum chrome and it's either not liking the Rust-Oleum primer or maybe the handles have oil still in trench even though they we're sandblasted. Anyway back to blasting and I will use another paint

 

[Dave.Phillips]

This weekend brought some closure...

Tailstock: below you will find photos of the completed tailstock. The handles we're a bit tricky with this chrome paint. The primer was the problem causing the chrome paint not to dry. So I didn't use any primer. I was originally spraying lightly however I noticed spraying a bit heavier worked better. I also sprayed the handles with a clear coat to protect them better and it dulled the chrome look to something more of a off silver something lol anyway they are adequate for preventing rust and the tailstock runs nice and smooth.

The tailstock is sitting on the unfinished bed showing the difference. Please excuse the mess because I should be working on the house and unpacking lol lol prioritizing isn't my strongest point

One photo shows that threaded lock at the end of the ram. If you're putting you're tailstock together and find that the ram is not smooth you can adjust this collar until it runs nicely. Also adjust the collar if you want the handles tick numbers to be utilized. 10 complete rotations of the handle will move the ram approximately 1".

Headstock: Like I mentioned before I will post how I disassembled it after I have completed it for it will require multiple posts and I think it will be easier to see for people.

If you have never used a sandblasting system before this is probably not a good part to be your first attempt at it. One shouldn't sandblast the inside we're the bearing sit!! Leave it alone!! Also notice how I protected the inside and threads in the photo below before painting. Now is a good time to practice you're art's and crafts lol. If you run you're finger inside we're the bearing will go you should feel basically a key on each side of the casting. The key is located inside on the top. I believe this key will align with the bearing groves when installing them.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Tailstock

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Headstock painting preparation.... also don't forget to tape the bottom of the casting we're it sits on the ways of the bed...

Also notice I have covered the flat surface on the casting. This is we're the pulley bearing and pulley system rides.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Sitting on the bed is the finished painted headstock ready for assembly. Painted using the same procedure and products as the Tailstock

 

[jim rozen]

Let me know if you want some of that round felt.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Hi Jim!!

Thanks much I appreciate it!!! ...

I have some now and something else I'm working on. I will post something on the oil wicks shortly.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Well I have been thinking about this lathe and how to approach the assembly of this. I'm going to post my thoughts in probably several post below... remember just my thoughts and hopefully feedback from others as I tinker thru this...

First I thought it would be interesting to understand what or should say whom this lathe was designed for.

Because my lathe is currently disassemble take a look at the pictures previously posted from Jim and Irby lathes and then look at the photo in the next post of my rescued G.boley watchmakers watchmakers lathe I did last year. Other than size I see striking similarities.

1) The bed or ways are the same. They both use the AKA split bed design. Although some watchmakers lathe also used a tube design.

2) Headstock used a bronze bushing designed not that far apart from the collet bearing design in the Hardinge lathe. Extreme accuracy was the goal in both lathes.

3) Primarily designed to use collets with both lathes having chuck options.

4) Each lathe had options for compound or hand engraving post's.

5) Tailstock we're deployed around runners for accuracy Although the Hardinge had other tooling also.

So I'd imagine that the Elgin/Hardinge lathe lines like this we're probably designed mainly for the watchmakers, clockmakers, jewelers and the need to have that style of accuracy, options and versatility in a larger lathe for medium to small work.

 

[Dave.Phillips]

I see it's a bit dusty from the move lol ... G.boley lathe

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Everyone like me that has encountered this style of headstock seams to have the same questions I did so let's look at this ....

Oil wick: well what should I replace the wick with? Some options I have recently found are...

1) Worsted yarn: From what I have seen is worsted yarn was originally used. This should be a good replacement however oil types today may effect it's tinsel strength.

2) Pipe cleaners: Probably not a good idea because of the metal inside them.

3) lantern wicks: I didn't look closely at this one however at face value might be a valid option however again today's oil's may have some effect on it.

4) Round felt: Apparently today's mostly used replacement. A bit harder to work with compared to worsted yarn and maybe requires more oil over the original because of it density.

Just my thoughts above...

I chose 1/4" round felt. Why? Mainly because of today's oil and the oil I chose to use.

Oil type: Well this is always a question in everything lol. Now first I thought how is the oil actually applied to this headstock? I looked at this just like the old babbitt bearing with drip oilers like one would see in the old steam engines. The idea is basically the same that they require a constant flow of oil between the shaft and inside wall of the medium used for the bearing. Ideally I think one should use ISO#6 or ISO#10 spindle oils. My problem with this oil is it's shipping costs in today's market around $20 and availability is usually 1 to 2 weeks I'm seeing. Now some give and take I think was needed and I chose to use 0W-16. It's also a very lightweight oil like ISO#6 however it is synthetic meaning that synthetic may have some effects on the replacement wick one chooses. 0W-16 or 0W-20 is available at most automotive stores making the extra shipping cost disappear and availability today not having to wait for shipping.

At the end of the day one will need to make a choice I think regarding the oil and wick


Now next post is installation of the felt oil wick ...

 

[Dave.Phillips]

Felt wick installation: This is easier than I thought however I will share two methods I used for getting the felt into the casting holes...

Method 1.
1) Re-install the two wick screws located under the headstock that was previously removed during disassembly.

2) Working only with the rear section slide the felt down the hole until it hits the screw you just installed.

3) Slide into place the rear and front bearing collets. Remember don't install the front piece of felt yet. And don't install the bearing screws!!!

4) Form the felt around and inside the collet felt keepers.

5) Remove the excess felt hanging out of the other end of the collet.

6) Using oil lube up the felt.

7) Slide the spindle into both collets. I bit of wiggling with your hands will be required as we are trying to shape the felt around the spindle.

8) With the spindle in place rotate it around with your hands shaping the felt. It will have drag at this point. Add more oil if needed.

9) Let the assembly sit overnight or longer if you like.

10) Remove the spindle and install the front portion of felt the same way as described above for the back section.

11) Install the spindle again and repeat the above spindle instructions only now with both felt wicks installed.

Photos below...