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Hardinge ESM taper mount

Papatewks

Plastic
Joined
Jan 28, 2024
I have a Hardinge ESM from the 40’s. It runs very well, but having trouble locating parts for it. One issue is the taper mount. It has what looks like a standard 4 degree taper mount, but it’s smaller than newer models. The taper runs from 1-1/2” to 1-11/16” in diameter. First, can someone tell me what this mount is called (to aid in googling). Second does anyone know where I might find a chuck that would fit this mount? Thanks!
 
Everybody just calls it the "Hardinge 4 degree taper spindle nose". I wasn't aware the ESM used a smaller version of that mount. (Learn something every day.) Unless Larry Vanice or somebody has an old ESM chuck to fit, haunt eBay until something comes up, because they are not something common. Unfortunately, odds are extremely good that the seller will have no idea the mount is for ESM, and will probably list it as just a Hardinge taper mount. So you should hit up old catalogs and get the model numbers for the Hardinge chucks that fit, then search/filter for those specific models.
 
Post up a photo of this lathe - it might be a late model split bed cataract which were made with 4C spindles, with a smaller version of the taper mount chuck. I owned one at one time (since donated to rhinebeck aerodrome) and it did indeed come with a taper-mount chuck for that spindle.
 
You probably already know your lathe takes 4C collets, though you did not say. That type collet is not terribly hard to find, used or new.

The Hardinge ESM and TR split bed underneath V-belt drive lathes made circa 1940-1945 can have 7" or 9" swing, the spindles can take 3C, 4C or 5C collets and the noses can be threaded or tapered. I have never seen a 3C threaded spindle, so they must be quite rare if they even exist. The 3C, 4C and 5C tapered nose spindles are pretty common, but chucks and tooling for the 3C and 4C taper are very hard to find. The threaded 4C and 5C exist, but the 4C threaded chucks and tooling are very scarce. One characteristic of these lathes is that the beds are all the same, so you can put a different headstock and tailstock on them. For instance, a 7" 3C could be converted to a 9" 5C, the most common size for these lathes. And the exterior dimensions of the spindles (except the nose) are all the same, so a 5C spindle can be put in a 3C or 4C headstock.

I have a very small selection of the 3C and 4C taper mount and 4C threaded mount chucks and tooling that I do not use and would sell.

Of course, the 5C chucks and tooling, whether taper or threaded, are still made and used stuff is common.

Larry
 
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You probably already know your lathe takes 4C collets, though you did not say. That type collet is not terribly hard to find, used or new.

The Hardinge ESM and TR split bed underneath V-belt drive lathes made circa 1940-1945 can have 7" or 9" swing, the spindles can take 3C, 4C or 5C collets and the noses can be threaded or tapered. I have never seen a 3C threaded spindle, so they must be quite rare if they even exist. The 3C, 4C and 5C tapered nose spindles are pretty common, but chucks and tooling for the 3C and 4C taper are very hard to find. The threaded 4C and 5C exist, but the 4C chucks and tooling are very scarce. One characteristic of these lathes is that the beds are all the same, so you can put a different headstock and tailstock on them. For instance, a 7" 3C could be converted to a 9" 5C, the most common size for these lathes. And the exterior dimensions of the spindles (except the nose) are all the same, so a 5C spindle can be put in a 3C or 4C headstock.

I have a very small selection of the 3C and 4C taper mount and 4C threaded mount chucks and tooling that I do not use and would sell.

Of course, the 5C chucks and tooling, whether taper or threaded, are still made and used stuff is common.

Larry
Good info! Would a 5c spindle
Clean looking lathe.
thanks! I pulled it out of someone’s basement (in parts) about 6 months ago. Stripped it, used good quality paint, refinished base, fresh bearings/belts... Now I want to use it!
 
You probably already know your lathe takes 4C collets, though you did not say. That type collet is not terribly hard to find, used or new.

The Hardinge ESM and TR split bed underneath V-belt drive lathes made circa 1940-1945 can have 7" or 9" swing, the spindles can take 3C, 4C or 5C collets and the noses can be threaded or tapered. I have never seen a 3C threaded spindle, so they must be quite rare if they even exist. The 3C, 4C and 5C tapered nose spindles are pretty common, but chucks and tooling for the 3C and 4C taper are very hard to find. The threaded 4C and 5C exist, but the 4C threaded chucks and tooling are very scarce. One characteristic of these lathes is that the beds are all the same, so you can put a different headstock and tailstock on them. For instance, a 7" 3C could be converted to a 9" 5C, the most common size for these lathes. And the exterior dimensions of the spindles (except the nose) are all the same, so a 5C spindle can be put in a 3C or 4C headstock.

I have a very small selection of the 3C and 4C taper mount and 4C threaded mount chucks and tooling that I do not use and would sell.

Of course, the 5C chucks and tooling, whether taper or threaded, are still made and used stuff is common.

Larry
Hi Larry please let me know what you have for 4C taper mount. Feel free to contact me directly [email protected]
 
That is interesting, and every time it comes up, mine and Larry's experience diverge. :)

I have several 4c split beds with threaded spindles (as well as a couple 5c taper mount).
I have never seen a taper mount 4c OD (other than pictures).
When i still got around to shops and auctions, threaded 4c tooling was somewhat common, e.g. pot chuck closers, tooling plates,(got drawers full); and threaded back chucks not completely uncommon. Also never saw any taper mount 4c OD tooling.

Maybe it was a regional thing?

smt
 
Photos of a 4/7 cataract machine, with a taper nose. This is the machine that had been donated to Rheinbeck. Tooling included some 4C collets and 4C taper mount four jaw chuck.
 

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The first Hardinge lathe I bought, in 1978 or so, was a circa 1920 Cataract with 32" bed and 47 threaded nose plain bearing headstock. It had no tailstock or slide rest, but did have a thread chasing attachment. Cost me $25 plus a bunch more to get it useful. I got a new Myford Super 7 tailstock, and Myford wood lathe slide rest from England, for instance. After that, I got maybe six or eight more Cataract 47 and 49 headstocks, all with the taper nose. I think I have a couple of the 1940's ball bearing 49 flat belt headstocks with threaded noses, but none with a taper nose. So, as I said, Hardinge built them both ways and in several sizes. But in these 45 years, I have been able to buy only a tiny number of chucks and other spindle mount tooling for any of the 3C and 4C headstocks. The picture is my entire pile of 4C taper nose tooling, including the one David is buying.

Larry

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