Hardinge GT Barfeed Interface Help...

[Booze Daily]

Ox, no it doesn’t know if it didn’t push far enough. It’s on an encoder and just keeps pushing until it reaches the encoder count to signal the end of the bar.

 

[Ox]

Yeah, I have one [ONE] like that.
I have no intention of having two.

If you want to walk away from something, you want it to fault out if the bar doesn't advance as far as it should.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Rick Finsta]

Will the 18T take a G31 torque skip command? You could always do a position check using a toolholder and alarm out of the bar didn't advance.

 

[Ox]

If the cut-off dies, or even maybe if the drill dies, and the cut-off doesn't go to C/L, the part could still be hanging on.

In your case - you are qualifying that there is bar there, but you don't know if it is fresh bar, or something that is still hanging on via a train wreck.

Next cycle could be worse, or it could run just like that indefinately.

The smarter barfeeders will know if the bar didn't feed out the min length, and they will know if they overfed (expecting to hit a stop), or even if the bar pushes back (a ways) during cycle.

The smarter feeders are well worth having if you are going to be running parts unattended at all.
And - isn't that the whole point of a magazine style barfeeder?

A used smart feeder isn't that much more than a dumb one that still runs.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[DanASM]

I got all of the documents today from the original sale. Same stuff Rick sent me on his machine. Except a whole lot more parameters are in mine. I ran through the first page and will do the rest this week.

Tom and Hardinge Service got in touch with me this morning and this afternoon with all the files they had on it.

Most are all 0's, so it wont be too time consuming to go through it all.

I like Ox's info on the bar feeders. The goal is to run unattended and I can justify spending more on a good one for sure.

I have some .500" square shank carbide form tools I use on my Brownies. I can fit those and all my 3/4" shank tooling on this machine. I just need something to run unattended and not fill up the base of the machine with chips. This machine should solve all those issues (Barfeeder, Chip Conveyor).

 

[Ox]

If you are looking for a feeder, you doo NOT want an LNS Quick Load Servo, or S2.
Those are running GE (Black Fanuc) PLC's, and they are poor quality, and they are not supported anymore.
The CPU's like to go out on them, and GE doesn't build replacements anymore.
LNS actually had GE/Fanuc make one last run of them a few years ago, and they were not cheap then!

This is why LNS went to a Mits (?) set-up on the newer units.
I believe that the S3 has the Mits (?) controls on it, and that unit has been out for at least 15 yrs by now, and likely closing in on 20 yrs by now, so I recommend that you look there, and verify that it does NOT have a Fanuc in the control cabinet.

I am sure that there are other equally good units other than LNS, but IDK anything about them to say yeah/neh.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Rick Finsta]

Ox, the G31 would feed from the Z direction with an out of position tolerance so you'd know if there was still bar hanging on.

 

[Ox]

I have 5 Hardinge lathes with 18/18i, and none of the prog manuals for any of them mention G31, but:
(I guess I have one with a 16 as well (not Hardinge) but no dedicated manual for that one)

So, what are you saying?

Would you [directly after the cut-off] run your stop up to X0 Z.1, and then run it back almost to the cut-off position to see if clear,
Then race back to Z.025/.1 (dead or pull-back) and cycle your collet,
Then try to push back in Z- to make sure that it DOES trip now?

Since my list doesn't show G31, I am hesitant to try to cycle it in MDI w/o knowing how to cancel it.
I'd like to think that it would be canceled at re-boot, but who knows eh? LOL!



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Rick Finsta]

My memory is fuzzy, but we used G31 for pass off to the sub spindle. You give it a feed rate, torque value, and position range, and have it advance to that position and it stops when it hits that torque value. If it hits the torque value early, or doesn't hit it by the other end of the tolerance, it alarms out.

So it would make sense to start the torque skip where a missed-cutoff part would be, and move to where the front of the stock should be after a bar pull. If it hits the torque value outside of maybe a +/-0.010" range then it alarms and you know that either the last part didn't cut off or the stock wasn't pulled to proper length.

I think it has to hit the torque value or a RESET to cancel the mode but knowing FANUC it is probably all parameter-based.

I have no idea if the early machines had any of this. I was running 32i and 0i controls on brand new machines a few years ago.

 

[Ox]

I have heard of sub hand-off using a feature like this, but also for using a live center in your sub-spindle.

Not sure if applicable to just any axis or not?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[TeachMePlease]

Dunno how FANUC does it, but the G31 torque skip is similar in function to the G160 Axis Torque Skip I use in my Mitsubishi controllers. You can use it on any servo controlled axis, you give it a position and a torque value (percentage of total torque of the motor). If it reaches that torque value, it stops motion. You have to use some macro logic to get the current position of that axis and compare it to the programmed position and figure out if the machine reached the desired position, +/- your tolerance. The G160 is canceled by the next G1/G0 command on my controls.

Used properly, it can be used to do things like check for a pilot hole before sending in a $300 gun drill, or check the depth of a drilled hole, or check a turned diameter (and offset the machine if necessary).

 

[DanASM]

So I got a chance to get the parameters set up. I had some alarms so I went through again and found a few mistakes. Got them corrected and then cleared.

I now have the 1040 alarm and the 100 PWE alarm. I guess these are both normal and I should not be far from getting this thing running.

I noticed that I could get the spindle to turn on its own by holding the spindle job button ( only at 40 rpm ). I couldnt get that to work on its own before. I was still wondering if I needed a transformer to get from 208 to 230. I guess not.

I cannot get the x and z axis to jog yet. I also know the collet is closed as I cannot screw a collet into the drawtube. The control shows the chuck is open.

Any ideas on what to do next?

 

[Ox]

You will need to find out the HOMING proceedure.

Also - if that machine is anything like the bigger machines of the same age, to get it to JOG away from the spindle [before you git it HOMED] you need to hold down the E-STOP OVERIDE button (if you have one) while trying to JOG it away.

Not 100% sure why they doo this, but they doo.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[DanASM]

There is a note on the inside of the door that says if I lose home to hold Op and Cancel while powering up the control. Hold for 30 seconds and it will bring me to the home screen. I tried this and nothing happened that I couldnt do before.

Some of what you say makes sense Ox. I feel like I have read the process before in one of the manuals.

 

[Ox]

P/CAN is only to dump the presumed X and Z locations.
The control stores where it last knew that it was, and if it doesn't match when you HOME, it doesn't like it.
I'm really not sure the benefit if it dooing that in the firth place, but I wasn't consulted, so ...

And, just fer the records, NEVER hold anything else down during boot unless you know exactly what it is that you want to dump!

Again - I've never ran a machine like yours, nor doo I know your control board (HMI) so IDK exactly what all buttons that you have to play with.
But I doo have other Hardinge lathes with 18 controls, so ... I have enough info/experience to be dangerous at least.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[DanASM]

P/CAN is only to dump the presumed X and Z locations.
The control stores where it last knew that it was, and if it doesn't match when you HOME, it doesn't like it.
I'm really not sure the benefit if it dooing that in the firth place, but I wasn't consulted, so ...

And, just fer the records, NEVER hold anything else down during boot unless you know exactly what it is that you want to dump!

Again - I've never ran a machine like yours, nor doo I know your control board (HMI) so IDK exactly what all buttons that you have to play with.
But I doo have other Hardinge lathes with 18 controls, so ... I have enough info/experience to be dangerous at least.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

I will take a pic of the control when I get a chance. I am going through the manuals again and things are getting more and more clear for me. I am starting to get used to navigating the control.

Some other notes on the machine say that the least harmonics happen at 2800 rpm.

I got a ball bar test report from 2018 that shows it passing the test. I dont know how to read the chart but it says its good.

 

[Ox]

Yeah, well that stuff all goes into the "whatever" file...



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[DanASM]

So, today I got the X and Z axis to jog. I could not get the machine to Home correctly and I went by the book. Had to hold E-Stop Reset down for 5 seconds, then I could move the slides by the arrows. I moved them towards the spindle an inch. First Z ax then X ax. Then the book says push Z+ and it will home on its own and the Z axis home light will be on.

I got it to hit the first limit switch and slow down until it got to .0000

The light never lit up and I was not able to do the same with the X axis as the book told me to.

After I move the axis in the - direction, the Zero Return light stops flashing and stays solid. I then can only move Z+, and on its own it starts to home itself. It does seem to finish homing but the control still shows the zero return alarm 1040.

I had to hold P/Can a few times after I over traveled the Z a few times. I learned a bit about the limit switches/etc, today.

 

[Ox]

On my machines, you need to start far enough away so that you can get enough movement in both axi's to satisfy the routine w/o stopping. On my machines that is a min of 2.5" of travel. It sou ds like you must be close enough to "see it from here" but just not quite past the last hurdle.

Shirley there are several folks here wigh the same machine/control, that they could confirm the homing routine?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[DanASM]

I feel like I am only a few buttons away from being confident in buying the toolholders.