What's new
What's new

Hardinge HLV-H 220v motor RPC and VFD questions

marinegrunt

Plastic
Joined
May 21, 2022
Hi everyone. I recently purchased an HLV-H and in the process of figuring out how I want to power it. I'm completely new to Lathes, mills, etc so I apologize for my ignorance. I've been a welder for 15 years and finally got the itch to get into machining since I enjoy tinkering with metal. Anyways, I've read through many posts about converting these to vfd's or using a RPC. It seems both have their pros and cons. Many of those threads talk about 460v machines. The nameplate on mine says it's 220v and the motor label backs that up. Although, there is a 230/460 volt transformer in the electrical box. I'm not sure if that makes a difference though. I planned on just getting a 5hp RPC but thought I'd ask if anyone would recommend the VFD route since it's a 220v? It's my understanding if I go with a RPC I don't need a separate transformer since I don't need to step up the voltage to 460v.

Another thing worth mentioning is I'm not an electrician. I've wired up a couple vfd's for my 2x72" belt grinder and a round column mills but I understand it would be quite a process with the Hardinge due to multiple motors, speed control, etc. I have very basic knowledge but would definitely need guidance. That's another reason why I kind of planned on going with a RPC.

I know all of this has been talked about many times on here but I just wanted to make sure that the vfd isn't the better way to go for a 220v machine. It's not like it'll be running everyday so I'm not too concerned about power consumption. Although, I know I'd prefer the quieter operation of the vfd's.

I appreciate the help. I know I'll have plenty of other basic questions about the lathe in general and operation so you might be seeing me around quite a bit. I'm going to need some advice on getting the correct chuck for it but will worry about that after I get it up and running. There are a couple Hardinge 5" on ebay that might fit the bill. My lathe has the 5c closure with the threads.

Thanks!
 

Attachments

  • 20220701_133309.jpg
    20220701_133309.jpg
    738.1 KB · Views: 14

FredC

Titanium
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Location
Dewees Texas
The HLV-H has three 3 phase motor. I have used the coolant only once in the last 25 years, but you will use the speed change often. It will definitely be best to use an RPC. Five horse will be overkill unless you think another bigger machine is in your future. One RPC can handle any number of machines at the same time as long as no one machine is larger than the RPC's capacity. A 3 horse RPC will be plenty for the HLV-H and a few other Bridgeport class machines running all at the same time. Not a whole lot to wiring them up, I would wire the RPC into a separate box and be sure to connect the first 2 wires to the native 220 and the added phase to the third connection. If the spindle turns the correct direction when hooked up all is OK. If not DO NOT HIT the speed buttons or it will jam up the varidrive. Reverse the 2 native wires on the first 2 connections and you should be good to go. Or get an electrician to do it and let him know spindle direction is important before touching the speed button.

https://www.practicalmachinist.com/...hlv-h-chuck-jaws-not-closing-parallel.403816/ Look this link over before buying a chuck. 5 or 6 inches is a good size for this machine
 

car2

Stainless
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
Apex, NC
As FredC alluded to, the VFD will not handle multiple three-phase motors, nor the low-voltage controls on the lathe. So a rotary converter is easiest, and keeps all the existing function, if your electricals have not been tampered with ,it is plug and play. Make sure you do not hook up the "wild" (manufactured) leg of the RPC to the control transformer (the transformer reduces the 220 volt to the 110 volt control circuits). You can easily trace the wires from the control transformer back to the input switch/fuses. The wild leg will have some oddball voltage to ground or to the other two legs. Cheers
 

L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
I hope you got a tailstock with that lathe.

The threaded mount (2-3/16-10) used chucks tend to be less expensive than the taper mount. New chucks cost about the same for either mount.

I guess that 220/440 transformer you mentioned is the control transformer, with a choice of 220 or 440 V input and only 110 V output.

Yes, a rotary phase converter is the simple way to power that lathe from a single phase supply. And, as warned, pay attention to which wires go to the control transformer and verify spindle rotation before using the speed changer.

Larry
 

marinegrunt

Plastic
Joined
May 21, 2022
Thanks for all of the great info. RPC it is. It still had a cord and plug attached so it's easy to see where the power wires hook-up. I'll definitely get some help hooking it up if I need it.

From reading the thread that Fred linked it sounds like I should probably just get a new chuck instead of messing with used. Although, I did come across this one but a new isn't a whole lot more.


I do have the tailstock Larry. I had removed it before the picture when I was wiping things down. Unfortunately, that's about the only thing that came with it. No tooling, chucks, collets, etc.

Thanks again for the help. I haven't posted much on here over the years but I've definitely learned a ton from all the knowledge that is shared. I'm excited to learn this new hobby and can't wait to get everything I need to start putting it to use.
 

Attachments

  • 20220702_105717.jpg
    20220702_105717.jpg
    538.6 KB · Views: 2

marinegrunt

Plastic
Joined
May 21, 2022
After posting that link to the chuck above I said a new wasn't a whole lot more. Well, I can see I was wrong about that. I thought I saw chucks for around $800 but I'm having trouble even finding a new 5" chuck with the 2-3/16-10" threads. Does anyone know where to purchase one? This is for a home shop so I don't want to break the bank but I do want a quality chuck. I just want to make sure I spend wisely because I have to add tooling as well.

Is there a better option like adding an adapter to use a different style chuck? A threaded chuck backing plate?
 

car2

Stainless
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
Apex, NC
There are a couple of used 6" back plates on Ebay (search "Hardinge chuck back plate"); a Hardinge "faceplate" can also be modified to use as a back plate. Larry can chime in, but I don't think anyone any longer makes an "integral" spindle interface machined into the body. Even new ones, including adjust-tru chucks and such, require mounting on a back-plate. Seems you can buy taper-mount back plates (they're pricy), but I haven't seen any new threaded plates.

I've bought three used Hardinge (taper mount) chucks 5" off ebay, and a nice 6" from a member here, but they had enough pictures and information to ascertain that they were about new condition, so the risk was worth it; they weren't cheap, but reasonable deals, and took extended time/patience to find among all the beat-up offerings. So, IMO, unless you have some definitive info on the condition, paying a lot for a used one is very risky (your link above didn't have much info, but even the single blurry picture indicates that chuck has had a lot of use, if not abuse) . Also, it's good to check that the jaw serial numbers match the body serial number.
 

L Vanice

Diamond
Joined
Feb 8, 2006
Location
Fort Wayne, IN
Hardinge used to sell only 5" 3-jaw chucks for all their 5C collet lathes. Then, some years before they stopped making the HLV-H, they sold 6" 3-jaw chucks for the HLV-H lathes. All of the lathes were available with threaded or taper nose spindles, so all the chucks, faceplates and other spindle nose tooling is available with taper or thread mount. For the last few decades, Hardinge has sold Buck chucks, most recently with tags that say Hardinge by Buck.

I have a number of 5" and 6" 3-jaw chucks and Hardinge threaded adapter plates to suit. Some new, some like new and some not. All will be a lot cheaper than Hardinge new prices.

Larry
 

marinegrunt

Plastic
Joined
May 21, 2022
Thanks for all of the replies. I ended up ordering a RPC from American Rotary and received it a couple days ago.

I'm considering installing the rpc motor in the open space in the middle of the cabinet base. I would just have to weld in a couple supports. I would then mount the box on the right hand side of the cabinet. Is there any issues with doing this? I doubt I'll ever use the rpc for any other machine. If I did that would be the only downfall I can think of but I can cross that bridge when I get there. I kind of like the idea of having it all contained as part of the lathe. I'm also considering putting it in a back room off my garage for noise control but that means 60' more feet of wire and conduit. I don't mind spending it if the rpc is noisy but would think having it in the cabinet would help some. Then again, that's $200-$300 I could put towards tooling.

What do the experts say? Inside the base cabinet or in the back room off the garage?
 

thermite

Diamond
Thanks for all of the replies. I ended up ordering a RPC from American Rotary and received it a couple days ago.

I'm considering installing the rpc motor in the open space in the middle of the cabinet base. I would just have to weld in a couple supports. I would then mount the box on the right hand side of the cabinet. Is there any issues with doing this? I doubt I'll ever use the rpc for any other machine. If I did that would be the only downfall I can think of but I can cross that bridge when I get there. I kind of like the idea of having it all contained as part of the lathe. I'm also considering putting it in a back room off my garage for noise control but that means 60' more feet of wire and conduit. I don't mind spending it if the rpc is noisy but would think having it in the cabinet would help some. Then again, that's $200-$300 I could put towards tooling.

What do the experts say? Inside the base cabinet or in the back room off the garage?
Third option. Start-out with it "close" but not INSIDE the lathe's "space budget".

Gain experience!

THEN decide if the noise-reduction remote wire run is worth it.

Mine is a near-as-dammit "freebie". Bargain on a coupla used-but-good transfer switches lets it share the five-wire (Wye 3-P .... with Neutral ... plus ground..) #4 Copper wire & conduit run with the Diesel gen set. Also configured 3-P "Wye".

No FINE Way I'd put an RPC inside a Hardinge base cabinet, nor even close, BTW.

Far better to utilize any "spare" space for machine-specific goods, even if they be but lubricants, coolant & chip "management" ... and spare parts ...as well as workholding and tooling.

There won't be any "left over" space. Trust THAT much. Hardinge tooling options offer a whole universe of clever s**t.

Many of them readily adapted to 10EE's. DAMHIKT!

:D
 
Last edited:

car2

Stainless
Joined
Sep 19, 2009
Location
Apex, NC
If you're considering a RPC just large enough to run the lathe, it should not be noisy or large (2 hp should be fine for the 1hp motor). I have a "15HP CNC" from American Rotary which has worked very well. It has a rather large Baldor idler motor which is not noisy (just a steady hum, not distracting), I have it tucked under a stairwell, bolted to a sheet of plywood with a rubber mat underneath, with the control box bolted to a nearby stair stringer. I run the Hardinge lathe, horizontal mill, bridgeport, belt (5hp) and disc sanders, wood lathe, wood bandsaw off the converter. I have a few outlets, but for infrequently used tools, I have a long twist-lock cord hanging from the center of the shop, which can be dragged around to power anything. If you think you may use something 3-p a bit larger in the future, you may want to consider a larger rotary converter. There are more "deals" on tools using 3p since homeowners frequently don't want to deal with swapping motors and controls, and the 3p motors are better to begin with. The VFD's are handy for smaller motors (under 2hp), especially ones that benefit from speed control, and of course you have to purchase and install them.
But, if you think the lathe is definitely the only thing you'd need with a rotary converter, and perhaps VFD's would work for anything else, I'd get the smallest idler needed, and your converter would be small, and quiet. I'm lazy. so I wouldn't install it in the base, crawling around on the floor in in the machine, when you can mount it on a sheet of plywood, and it's probably no larger altogether than a couple of shoe-boxes.
 
Last edited:

FredC

Titanium
Joined
Oct 29, 2010
Location
Dewees Texas
I have true 3 phase now. When I had converters, they went outside next to the electrical box. They were both weather proof so the noise and heat were outside. In south Texas when it is 100+ outside even a little extra heat is not welcome. Up north when you heat more than 3 months a year may be a different story.
 

thermite

Diamond
Up north when you heat more than 3 months a year may be a different story.

My recent cost of heating under inflation?

That.. and the heat shed by the "consumers", AKA the machine-tools (which I already have the means to "share" with the residence) .. actually CAN be useful.

WELL worth putting the RPC rig on wheels ... or at least making it readily "hand-truckable" .....for winter/summer relocation?

Yes!

Thanks for the reminder!

:)
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
"...even a little extra heat is not welcome."
That's how I can tell the seasons here. When I open up the crawl space door to shut off the converter at the end of the night, and I say "ooh nice and warm in here" then it's wintertime!
 

thermite

Diamond
"...even a little extra heat is not welcome."
That's how I can tell the seasons here. When I open up the crawl space door to shut off the converter at the end of the night, and I say "ooh nice and warm in here" then it's wintertime!
WTH?

Spend half yer life living off the "electronics" game, and you cannot be bothered to remote an ON/OFF switch and indicator lamp?

Does yer motorsickle have a MOTOR.. or is it just an over-weight push-bike?

:)
 

jim rozen

Diamond
Joined
Feb 26, 2004
Location
peekskill, NY
Which one?

Unlike you, I can spend all night running machines in the shop. The disconnect switch has a red handle which has to be in the down position when I head upstairs at the end of the night.
No need for fancy ge-gaws.

Real question you should be asking, is how I'm not smart enought to put a small room AC unit in the basement shop in the summertime....
BTW, these days it's mostly jack of all trades at work. Vacuum technology. Failure analysis. Mechanical design. Stuff's breaking faster than
we can fix it....
 

thermite

Diamond
... how I'm not smart enought to put a small room AC unit in the basement shop in the summertime....

Cheap-out. Wait 'til the "season" ends. Real Soon Now.

Grab one for about $100 as 'Big Box' clears inventory.
Decent "heat-pump" model if you can. Price cuts are right severe.

Now you have a plain fan, a skosh of heat, and/or humidity control, too.. and not "just" the hottest part of the summer, either.

Worst of them average several years of life, best ones ten or more.
 

majohnson

Aluminum
Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Location
Erie, CO
A VFD isn’t need to run your HLV-H, the motor needs full voltage from the RPC. Speed control is done with a variable speed belt drive system, which is very efficient since you are not changing the voltage to the motor.
 
Last edited:








 
Top