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Hardinge Re-shoring Turning / Milling Machinery

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
Northwest Ohio
IM/HO it is more of a "Shoring" campaign than "re" shoring, as they never built mills that I know of in the US. Maybe they did some final assembly and inspection at first, but before long I think they imported directly to the dealers. Same with the entry level turning machines as far as I know.

They did build the Cobra's here - back in the day, but since the early naughts, I think the only machines coming out of Elmira have been the flagship lathes, and that's it.

With that said - I think that the iron coming out of Taiwan is VERY stout. Comparing similar machine to my old '80's Cinci VC series, and my chum's 90's and early naughts Cinci Arrows and Sabres, the C frame is MUCH bigger! Rails a mile wide.... Real deal shtuff!

I cannot compare to anything else - as I have no experience with anything else.


So, anyhow, I seen a small writ in the new Production Machining Magazine last night, and while I cannot find anything about it on the hardinge site, Thomas Register has a nice page on their site.

Not that there is any details to speak of, just waving the flag over here for finally another US option!
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Production Machining March 2021 Page 8

Machine Tool Maker Hardinge Reshoring from Taiwan to New York




Machine Tool Maker Hardinge Reshoring from Taiwan to New York

Andy SzalDec 30, 2020
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Welcome to Thomas Insights — every day, we publish the latest news and analysis to keep our readers up to date on what’s happening in industry. Sign up here to get the day’s top stories delivered straight to your inbox.


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A Pennsylvania maker of machine tool equipment and technology announced plans to relocate manufacturing currently conducted in Taiwan to its existing facility in upstate New York.

Hardinge Inc. said moving its milling and turning machining center solutions to Elmira, New York, would allow the company to house its turning and milling product development, supply chain, and assembly operations for the Americas and Europe in a single location.

The decision will impact the company's Bridgeport XR Series vertical machining centers and TALENT Series turning products, company officials said in a statement.

"We are very excited to make this move, as it brings the products closer to the customers we serve and leverages the many years of experience we have in Elmira," said Hardinge President and Co-CEO Chuck Dougherty.

Hardinge makes advanced metal- and material-cutting tool solutions and accessories — particularly precision, computer-controlled machine tools for complex metal parts. The Elmira facility, which dates to 1931, currently makes workholding products, CNC lathes, and knee mills.

The company said it is investing "significant resources" in the plant's equipment and assembly capabilities to support the new products, and said it anticipates a "substantial increase" in the Elmira workforce by the end of the 2021 fiscal year. Further details, including capital investment and the projected number of added jobs, were not disclosed.

Hardinge's site in Taiwan will retain its engineering, sales, and fulfillment capabilities after the transition.

Image Credit: @HardingeInc / Twitter


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
I'm not 100% sure if they "Hardinge" in their earlier press releases really meant they are building the XR series of mills in the USA ? Or at least integrating the Taiwanese castings and other components on US soil - especially as the XR series in their current form were only offered in EUROPE - i.e. Slightly nerdier tighter tolerance offerings with Heidenhain controls and scales etc. (maybe with a Siemens option) - Right now their Bridgeport-Hardinge verticals are more based or focused on Mits controls and spindles (on their newer V series). GX verticals being older / different from XR.

Not sure if the XR "Thing" was a cut and paste job from Hardinge management or whether they really mean XR ?

@OX good point about "repatriating" something that was never on US soil to begin with lol.

I agree (for example) the Hardinge super precision machines [Turning centers] have a lot of "iron" per linear "Foot" / heavier than a lot of near equivalent machines out there.

[The super precision T series (Originally) are supposed to be final fit and finish in USA - I think it's just a bearing alignment thing + other tweaks and fits to make it truly "Super Precision" ;-) . ]

For sure a lot of robust / "Stout" Taiwanese iron.

The earlier Hardinge Bridgeport V series of mills had some problems. So having a US based, pre-checked machines before shipping (capability) would probably improve things pretty dramatically + better knowledge of the machines themselves on US soil [for tech support].

Taiwan is still their main international hub + China.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________


XR-Series | Hardinge

^^^ place holder for XR - series ? (On US side).



^^^ A bit of context for XR machines / spec / use + Hardinge Bridgeport history in Europe.



Another typical configuration / offering for XR series (three years ago) in U.K. / Europe**.


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


** No affiliation.
 
I have no idea what machine the castings were for but I did make some patterns for some Hardinge machines about 15 years ago. They were cast at a foundry here in Ontario. These may have been prototype machines but the tooling was not really low volume tooling.
 
I'm not 100% sure if they "Hardinge" in their earlier press releases really meant they are building the XR series of mills in the USA ? Or at least integrating the Taiwanese castings and other components on US soil - especially as the XR series in their current form were only offered in EUROPE - i.e. Slightly nerdier tighter tolerance offerings with Heidenhain controls and scales etc. (maybe with a Siemens option) - Right now their Bridgeport-Hardinge verticals are more based or focused on Mits controls and spindles (on their newer V series). GX verticals being older / different from XR.

Not sure if the XR "Thing" was a cut and paste job from Hardinge management or whether they really mean XR ?

@OX good point about "repatriating" something that was never on US soil to begin with lol.

I agree (for example) the Hardinge super precision machines [Turning centers] have a lot of "iron" per linear "Foot" / heavier than a lot of near equivalent machines out there.

[The super precision T series (Originally) are supposed to be final fit and finish in USA - I think it's just a bearing alignment thing + other tweaks and fits to make it truly "Super Precision" ;-) . ]

For sure a lot of robust / "Stout" Taiwanese iron.

The earlier Hardinge Bridgeport V series of mills had some problems. So having a US based, pre-checked machines before shipping (capability) would probably improve things pretty dramatically + better knowledge of the machines themselves on US soil [for tech support].

Taiwan is still their main international hub + China.

__________________________________________________ ___________________________________


XR-Series | Hardinge

^^^ place holder for XR - series ? (On US side).



^^^ A bit of context for XR machines / spec / use + Hardinge Bridgeport history in Europe.



Another typical configuration / offering for XR series (three years ago) in U.K. / Europe**.


_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


** No affiliation.

When the Harcrete shed is full of product again then I'll believe they are doing big things in Elmira. They sold all the actual metal cutting equipment off not all that long ago, this is just assembly moving back to the states, I'll take it. It's better than nothing.
 
A Pennsylvania maker of machine tool equipment and technology announced plans to relocate manufacturing currently conducted in Taiwan to its existing facility in upstate New York.

What ???????
 
Yeah, they moved their offices to Penn a few years ago.
IDK what that is all about, but prolly a tax issue is my guess?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Yeah, they moved their offices to Penn a few years ago.
IDK what that is all about, but prolly a tax issue is my guess?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

looking at google maps, it appears to be a simple rented office, part of a larger building with multiple tenants.
 
I'd be interested to see how this really pans out. Our Taiwan built '06 Hardinge VMC had/has some issues related to it's quality of design and construction. The kinds of things that could have been caught if it wasn't built as a commodity machine and they had a little tighter grip on QC. We've been really happy with our Korean built Doosan VMC, but.... I'd love to keep our money state-side....
 
When the Harcrete shed is full of product again then I'll believe they are doing big things in Elmira. They sold all the actual metal cutting equipment off not all that long ago, this is just assembly moving back to the states, I'll take it. It's better than nothing.

"It's better than nothing" ~ Agreed :-)

That would be quite a sight wouldn't it Shed full of Harcrete,

I believe they bring the claimed XR line and Talent line of lathes / turning centers. + newer heat treat equipment so maybe a stab at improved quality ? [for some of the hardware ].
 
None of the machines mentioned in this subject would have Harcrete bases - would they?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
None of the machines mentioned in this subject would have Harcrete bases - would they?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

AFIK - you are correct.

I think they still use it on their smaller gang tool lathes.
 
I have no idea what machine the castings were for but I did make some patterns for some Hardinge machines about 15 years ago. They were cast at a foundry here in Ontario. These may have been prototype machines but the tooling was not really low volume tooling.

Honestly super interesting that a pattern maker would come out of the wood-work.

[Most of the machines I've seen of late are meehanite castings. ~ Epoxy "Granitan' type "castings" can be pretty amazing [fine surface finishes/ vibration dampening] but always another level of 'Spend"/$. [not everybody needs that.].
 
None of the machines mentioned in this subject would have Harcrete bases - would they?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Probably not, GTs and maybe the T lathes but I'm not sure. They farmed out the harcrete process even before they sold off the machines I think. Like I said it's good news but it's not the good ole days again.

They are hiring, so they are adding back capability and heat treat is probably for work holding which I don't think ever left, but it could be for spindles.
 
Heard some commentary on the radio which makes me wonder what the impact it may be having on this. The commentator said if you read the Chinese press these days they are speaking in all the same ways towards Taiwan as they once did towards Hong Kong right before taking over. He was thinking this may be the China's first major test of the Biden administration.

Unlike Hong Kong, I believe Taiwan has a real military, whether or not they would fight an invasion and or whether the world has the stomach to stand up for them if the Chinese try to invade is a different question, but if what the commentator said is true one has to think should US corporations be considering the safety of their assets in Taiwan and or China for that matter if conflict breaks out.

I wonder if this had anything to do with the decision?

The other thing I am curious to if anyone knows, are there restrictions on importing Chinese made CNC machining centers to the USA? What about the use of them on govt' contracting. Would certain customers of Hardinge have trouble purchasing a machine made in China if the government of Taiwan changes? For whatever reason despite seeing "Made In China" on virtually everything else over here I haven't seen it as much or at least as obviously on Chinese machine tools. Are there export laws that may be facilitating this?

Am I a conspiracy theorist on this one? It was interesting analysis that made me think of this thread.
 
Heard some commentary on the radio which makes me wonder what the impact it may be having on this. The commentator said if you read the Chinese press these days they are speaking in all the same ways towards Taiwan as they once did towards Hong Kong right before taking over. He was thinking this may be the China's first major test of the Biden administration.

Unlike Hong Kong, I believe Taiwan has a real military, whether or not they would fight an invasion and or whether the world has the stomach to stand up for them if the Chinese try to invade is a different question, but if what the commentator said is true one has to think should US corporations be considering the safety of their assets in Taiwan and or China for that matter if conflict breaks out.

I wonder if this had anything to do with the decision?

The other thing I am curious to if anyone knows, are there restrictions on importing Chinese made CNC machining centers to the USA? What about the use of them on govt' contracting. Would certain customers of Hardinge have trouble purchasing a machine made in China if the government of Taiwan changes? For whatever reason despite seeing "Made In China" on virtually everything else over here I haven't seen it as much or at least as obviously on Chinese machine tools. Are there export laws that may be facilitating this?

Am I a conspiracy theorist on this one? It was interesting analysis that made me think of this thread.

Hardinge China is for Chinese market and Hardinge Taiwan is for world market non Chinese + USA.

I used to get very 'Twitchy" about Taiwan but (personally) I think Xi Jinping has missed his/their window of opportunity even though the CCP is ramping up pressure on Taiwan to a claustrophobic degree. [Taiwanese jets constantly scrambled and various tit-for tat incursions on various sea lanes.]. Hong Kong will continue to be engulfed by the "System" for cited reasons of 'Stability".
 
I do believe Covid made us realize just how dependent we are on offshoring. I'm certain some of you noticed the article in the last MMS re' the ongoing research at ORNL on machine design. Additive printed the form/mold for casting a concrete machine base. Before pouring the concrete add carefully designed rebar. I did notice they welded the rebar rather than using tie-wire. Time will tell. (Re)search is just that; you get a thumbs up or down or maybe.
 
With $400/week extra, many employers in the US can't keep enough help even now, so IDK what "in-house" really does to edit this circumstance?

I understand that it at least seems different, but I'm not sure just how much?


4 month back-order on kitchen appliances, go figger?
Used fridges and deep freezers likely have the highest resale value in history!
Like a year old Harley - before the days of overproduction?


-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
With $400/week extra, many employers in the US can't keep enough help even now, so IDK what "in-house" really does to edit this circumstance?

I understand that it at least seems different, but I'm not sure just how much?
Big companies can't turn on a dime, this might have been in the works since the Trump admin.
There was a "buy USofA" campaign then, and I'm sure there was some inducements
given.

When the change actually get's completed, who knows if the savings/benefits of this
move will be realized.
 








 
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