Hardinge Tm Um

[jordan6679]

Would anyone know if a service manual was available for the older model? Also I have the M head, what collet fits the spindle? It sure is a small. Another question for you all, I posted a picture of the power box and the ratings this mill can handle. It states 3hp on 220 single, and 7hp on 220 3 phase. Can anyone confirm these? I'm am just getting into home machining and want to get this vintage beauty running smooth.

 

[jim rozen]

Neither the M head or the UM miller have anything near 3hp at the spindle.

The UM has a two speed motor when delivered from the factory, that one is
3/8 or 3/4 hp depending on which speed you've selected. An M head is around
a half hp I suspect.

M heads come in just about two flavors in the spindle: morse taper no. 2 or
brown and sharpe taper no. 7 and the best way to tell is to try one of your
lathe tailstock tools in there to see if it locks up or not. If the spindle is
B&S, it will be obviously wrong.

There are aftermarket sources of both of those collets right now so they
are relatively inexpensive. Before setting the machine up with the vertical
head try it for a while as a pure horizontal. You can put end mills in the
5C spindle and do some serious work. Also recognize that plain milling cutters
on an arbor can move a lot of stock in a short time if your work is appropriate
for those. Plain cutters are real cheap on the re-sale market.

 

[L Vanice]

"..It states 3hp on 220 single, and 7hp on 220 3 phase..."

Your photos show that you have the OEM 2-speed 3-phase motor rated 3/4 HP at 1750 RPM and 3/8 HP at 875 RPM. Your motor starter is larger than needed, but does no harm.

You have a UM model. It is one or the other, not a TM-UM. The table swivels on the UM model and the TM is a plain mill.

You will need a phase converter for the mill and first need to find the motor data plate to see what voltage it is. The H head motor may be a different voltage, or even single phase.

Larry

 

[morsetaper2]

Are UM & TM acronyms? If yes, what do they stand for?

 

[Other Brother]

Would anyone know if a service manual was available for the older model? Also I have the M head, what collet fits the spindle? It sure is a small. Another question for you all, I posted a picture of the power box and the ratings this mill can handle. It states 3hp on 220 single, and 7hp on 220 3 phase. Can anyone confirm these? I'm am just getting into home machining and want to get this vintage beauty running smooth.

I have a manual if you want to send a PM with your email address. It's too large to post here. Daryl

 

[L Vanice]

The mill is a "UM". Note the "universal' table angled-over. The horizontal's 5C is easy to find tooling for, and a by-1/8ths inch set should cover endmills pretty well.

The head is not an "M", which has a moving quill, but the earlier lighter-duty "high" RPM (over 4,000 possible) 1/4 HP Bridgeport "C" head, which has a fixed quill.

Tony's lathes.co.uk site lists the "C" head as having shipped with a "B3" taper. Never HEARD of it meself, but PM's archives say it resembles a miniature R8, has a 9-degree taper angle, and those who need them generally have to make their own.

Unless some tooling came with it you might find the least-hassle way to tool that to be shop-fabbing ONE adaptor to ER-32 and just leaving it in place.

Bill

Thanks for making me pay more attention to the pictures of the Bridgeport head, which is certainly not an M head. Hardinge had Bridgeport make an H head for the TM and UM mills. It used 2VB collets (1/2" max), which also fit the Hardinge BB2V bench vertical mills. The H head can easily be mistaken for the other little Bridgeport heads, but the serial number will start with H. The 2VB collets are very rare, though I have some extras for sale.

As for 5C tooling being easy to find, that statement is true of lathe tooling like collets. But Hardinge and Weldon made 5C tooling specifically for the mill and those items are very rare. There were various size Weldon end mill holders and Hardinge fly cutters, shell mills and cutter arbors. The cutter arbors were 7/8 and 1 inch long ones for use with the overarm (also hard to find) and smaller short ones that did not use the overarm.

The pictures show the long 5C arbors, an H head (115 V motor) and a set of 2VB collets.

Larry

 

[jim rozen]

TM I think is "toolroom mill" and UM is "universal (toolroom) mill."

Stick with the 5C spindle. Unless you want to spend more money.

 

[jordan6679]

Thanks for all the information all, I have no experience with repairing and rebuilding machines, I have always worked for others. I will take more pictures of what I have, but so far I cannot find an information plate on the main motor. Also, the electrical configuration on my mull is completely different than any other UM I have seen. All the others have the electronics stashed away in a single box on the right side of the machine, where mine has several compoents attached to the back, a power switch on the left, and another yet to be identified small box on the right side. This machine was at one point military property, maybe it was completely 're-wired for ship shop purposes? Also, I have a 3 wire coming out of what looks like a transformer to power the vertical head. The information plate on the vertical is unreadable, and the motor had no information. It's starting to look like a crap shoot. He only information I have is from the PO before it was stashed away 10 years ago. He claims it was wired up 220 single, because a grinder took its place and outlet when this mill moved out.

 

[jordan6679]

Luckily enough for me, it came with a big box of 5c collets in working order. I'm not sure if the set is complete, but I have plenty to start out with. I have a single collet for the Bridgeport C head, I will get some dimensions for it.

 

[dkmc]

Different perspective...
Got mine years ago in a 'gaggle' of machines, averaged out to $275/per...with pile of tooling.
Use it about 2-3 times a year, keyway on the end of a long shaft, best approach I've found for the task at hand.
Hate the .200 screw... and no table lock??? WTF?

 

[L Vanice]

Different perspective...
Got mine years ago in a 'gaggle' of machines, averaged out to $275/per...with pile of tooling.
Use it about 2-3 times a year, keyway on the end of a long shaft, best approach I've found for the task at hand.
Hate the .200 screw... and no table lock??? WTF?

My TM has 10 pitch feed screws and nylon dials with 100 divisions on all three axes.

Not much need for a longitudinal table lock on a horizontal mill unless you have an add-on vertical head. But there is a T-slot on the front of the table for a pair of fine adjustment travel stops. You can set both stops hard against the saddle to prevent the table from moving. My TM has conventional locking levers on the cross and vertical travel.

Larry

 

[jordan6679]

Here are a couple pics of the power setup. The lower transformer? is not hooked up at all.

 

[jordan6679]

Motor plates

 

[jim rozen]

The 5C collets will work just fine for your horizontal spindle, they'll do everything you want.
Would be nice to have the correct lug-driven arbor if you can locate one.

That motor can be started right across the line with no starter, that's how I run mine. You
can basically delete anything aside from the two drum controller boxes on the side. You'll
need to do one of two things: either rig up a rotary converter or buy a VFD to power that motor.
Either approach has plusses and minusses.

 

[dkmc]

My TM has 10 pitch feed screws and nylon dials with 100 divisions on all three axes.

Not much need for a longitudinal table lock on a horizontal mill unless you have an add-on vertical head. But there is a T-slot on the front of the table for a pair of fine adjustment travel stops. You can set both stops hard against the saddle to prevent the table from moving. My TM has conventional locking levers on the cross and vertical travel.

Larry

Oh boy.......I meant .100 pitch screw....but wrote .200
I don't think any ever had .200 but I wish mine did.
I have the T slot but no stops and no idea what they look like.
Problem now is, there is a DRO scale blocking access to the T slot.

 

[L Vanice]

Oh boy.......I meant .100 pitch screw....but wrote .200
I don't think any ever had .200 but I wish mine did.
I have the T slot but no stops and no idea what they look like.
Problem now is, there is a DRO scale blocking access to the T slot.

If the long feed screw was 5 TPI, it would take twice as much torque to feed into the work. Maybe the power feed mechanism could not stand the load.

Here are the TM and UM adjustable table stops. They are similar to the ones Hardinge supplied with their little bench mills. You would not use the stops while using power feed, which has its own stop to disconnect the worm from the worm wheel.

There are brass discs between the knurled thumb screw ends and the long stop screw threads. The long screws are 1.18" below the center of the T-slot in the table.

Larry

 

[atwatterkent]

Table stops for a TM

Woops, I see L Vanice posted some pics while I was posting this.
Here are pics that someone sent me a few years ago of the stops with some dimensions. Two different types. The last pic and 2 in the next post kick off the auto feed is my understanding.
These mills also came with metric feed screws as special order. Mine has metric screws which I didn't know when I bought it so I installed a DRO because I don't speak metric.

 

[atwatterkent]

I never did make the stops though. I never needed them.

I used a bolt with a thinned head and a couple of nuts for the auto feed stop. (last pic)

I only use it to put lines on dials and cut gears.

I did machine a set of arbors for it including 7/8" 1", and 1 1/4" as it only came with a 1" arbor.

 

[dkmc]

Thanks for the pictures of the stops guys!

 

[jordan6679]

Progress is slow, but it will be worth it.