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hardinge vertical cut off slide for HLV-H
- Thread starter entoffice
- Start date
- Replies 16
- Views 6,355
jim rozen
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Location
- peekskill, NY
Hi, how did you finally decide to deal with
the infamous 'spindle squeak?'
I was unaware that hardinge made a vertical
headstock mounted cutoff for the HLVH. I know
that the number 7 one I bought for a DV-59 did
not *quite* fit my split bed lathe, so I had
to do a bit of impromptu modification to the
bolt circle.
But in use it is set up just like a regular
cutoff blade - I use no 'back' or 'side' rake
and the top edge of the tool is right on the
centerline so it cuts off without leaving a
nub. So for me it is flat, no back or side
rake for brass, steel, plastic, or whatever.
Just be careful that the slide gibs are tight
enough that the tool does not fall on its own,
there is no spring to keep it up!
Jim
the infamous 'spindle squeak?'
I was unaware that hardinge made a vertical
headstock mounted cutoff for the HLVH. I know
that the number 7 one I bought for a DV-59 did
not *quite* fit my split bed lathe, so I had
to do a bit of impromptu modification to the
bolt circle.
But in use it is set up just like a regular
cutoff blade - I use no 'back' or 'side' rake
and the top edge of the tool is right on the
centerline so it cuts off without leaving a
nub. So for me it is flat, no back or side
rake for brass, steel, plastic, or whatever.
Just be careful that the slide gibs are tight
enough that the tool does not fall on its own,
there is no spring to keep it up!
Jim
Milflyer
Cast Iron
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Location
- Wiltshire : England
Hi Jim, in the Hardinge Tooling Manual for the HLV-H /TFB-H it is listed as Model number VCHC, Part number HCB0009650
I got one a few months ago and its been superb, of course if you're doing mixed machining (Collet v Chuck) ... then its a pain taking it on and off.
John
Milflyer
Cast Iron
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Location
- Wiltshire : England
Hi Joel, Mounting is simple, you'll see the six cap head bolts retaining the the forward headstock cap ring, simply remove every other bolt (total three) and then offer up the Vertical Cut-off Slide into position. Now attach it with three longer 5/16" x 2-1/4" UNC bolts (The bolts you've removed will be too short to grip)
Have fun
John
jim rozen
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Location
- peekskill, NY
And I seem to recall that the longer ones had
to be an odd size for my split bed machine. I
had to shorten standard length screws.
Jim
to be an odd size for my split bed machine. I
had to shorten standard length screws.
Jim
Milflyer
Cast Iron
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Location
- Wiltshire : England
Hi Joel - Yes the HC is the VCHC, as for torque; well I simply make sure the three bolts are tight as they are holding your Vertical Cut-off to the headstock and taking the down forces with the cut-off unit/blade.
As for blades, that I can't answer as I've got two new ones and have not looked for others.
John
As for blades, that I can't answer as I've got two new ones and have not looked for others.
John
jim rozen
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Location
- peekskill, NY
That hole's a bit less than 1/2 inch in diameter,
right?
On my number 7 cutoff, it's so you can get
an allen wrench onto the top one of the three
mounting bolts. Otherwise you have to take
the tool mounting block off the front of the
slide.
Jim
right?
On my number 7 cutoff, it's so you can get
an allen wrench onto the top one of the three
mounting bolts. Otherwise you have to take
the tool mounting block off the front of the
slide.
Jim
Thanks Jim
Its interesting-on the HC the top mounting bolt is to the right of the vertical slide so access is not a problem yet the toolholder is the same-I guess they figured they would save money instead of making one without the access hole
Joel
Its interesting-on the HC the top mounting bolt is to the right of the vertical slide so access is not a problem yet the toolholder is the same-I guess they figured they would save money instead of making one without the access hole
Joel
L Vanice
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2006
- Location
- Fort Wayne, IN
Joel, the Hardinge cut off tools, whether vertical, quick change or back mounted, use Luers Patent blades from Empire Tool. The patent is expired and you can now buy the blades from any industrial supply source. They are called P Type or T-shape. Do not use beveled type blades. See the MSC web site, page 550 in the big book. You will see several widths, brands and materials for sale.
Clamp the blade in your holder so that the overhang is just enough to reach the center of your bar and not hit the bar with the holder. Adjust the blade position so that the tip lines up with the bar center just before it hits the travel stop.
If the vertical cutoff is assembled correctly, it cannot accidentally fall when the blade is all the way to the top. A spring is not required.
The beauty of the Luers blade is that it is incredibly easy to sharpen. You just grind the end, never anything else. I have seen used blades that have been wrecked by operators that did not know the correct grinding procedure. The tool holder determines the back rake. Both side relief angles are ground into the bit, as is a hollow on the top that creates a double side rake. You grind the end relief angle, which can simply copy the angle on a new bit. The cutting edge of the blade is usually ground square across with no corner radii, so that the blade does not bend and bind in the cut. That is especially important with narrow blades and deep cuts. Sometimes it will work out OK to grind across at a small angle so that the dropping part does not have a pip remaining in its center. The angle is such that the pip will be almost entirely on the bar end still in the collet when the part drops. The remaining pip will be cut off as the blade travels on past the centerline.
Clamp the blade in your holder so that the overhang is just enough to reach the center of your bar and not hit the bar with the holder. Adjust the blade position so that the tip lines up with the bar center just before it hits the travel stop.
If the vertical cutoff is assembled correctly, it cannot accidentally fall when the blade is all the way to the top. A spring is not required.
The beauty of the Luers blade is that it is incredibly easy to sharpen. You just grind the end, never anything else. I have seen used blades that have been wrecked by operators that did not know the correct grinding procedure. The tool holder determines the back rake. Both side relief angles are ground into the bit, as is a hollow on the top that creates a double side rake. You grind the end relief angle, which can simply copy the angle on a new bit. The cutting edge of the blade is usually ground square across with no corner radii, so that the blade does not bend and bind in the cut. That is especially important with narrow blades and deep cuts. Sometimes it will work out OK to grind across at a small angle so that the dropping part does not have a pip remaining in its center. The angle is such that the pip will be almost entirely on the bar end still in the collet when the part drops. The remaining pip will be cut off as the blade travels on past the centerline.
Hi Larry. Joel has been trying to talk me into one of these. Do you find it a big inconvenience to remove from the machine when you decide to use a chuck?
What do you find to be the biggest advantage of the attachment when compared to a tool held in a quick change tool post, or rear tool post?
Mike
What do you find to be the biggest advantage of the attachment when compared to a tool held in a quick change tool post, or rear tool post?
Mike
L Vanice
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2006
- Location
- Fort Wayne, IN
Mike, the attachment is very easy to install and remove, since only three screws are used. Adjusting for a different diameter bar takes a few minutes.
For everyday work on one or a few parts, I use a quick change tool post on my lathes' slide rest. Each of my lathes has cutoff tools on QC holders. The Hardinge QC post uses the Luers bits, which are my favorite.
I have not used my vertical cutoff since the early 1980's. I bought a new Feeler brand vertical cutoff for a DV59 to use on my 1945 split-bed 59. I had to do a little slotting of the three screw holes to line up with my machine, but it was otherwise a perfect fit. I only used it to make batches of several hundred parts at a time for a local maker of .22 machine guns. The lathe came with the chasing attachment and a tailstock and slide rest. But it also included a lever cross slide and conical head turret. At first, I bought a Hardinge rear cutoff for the lever cross slide, but ran out of stations for making some of the complicated parts. That is when I got the vertical cutoff. The bolt handles for the guns required a skiving tool, which had to be mounted to the back of the lever cross slide, leaving no place for the rear cutoff tool.
I taught myself how to do mini-mass production by making Tippmann gun parts. I even got to make replacement parts for an original .45-70 Colt Gatling gun Tippmann restored. Payment included getting to shoot it when it was restored - a priceless memory.
To answer your other question, the biggest advantage of the vertical cutoff is that it frees up a station on the rear of the lever cross slide. I would only use it for mass production. The Hardinge vertical cutoff that fits the HLV-H was really meant to be used on the HC and the TFB-H, which are production machines. Of course, the HLV-H can do production work of some kinds, too.
For everyday work on one or a few parts, I use a quick change tool post on my lathes' slide rest. Each of my lathes has cutoff tools on QC holders. The Hardinge QC post uses the Luers bits, which are my favorite.
I have not used my vertical cutoff since the early 1980's. I bought a new Feeler brand vertical cutoff for a DV59 to use on my 1945 split-bed 59. I had to do a little slotting of the three screw holes to line up with my machine, but it was otherwise a perfect fit. I only used it to make batches of several hundred parts at a time for a local maker of .22 machine guns. The lathe came with the chasing attachment and a tailstock and slide rest. But it also included a lever cross slide and conical head turret. At first, I bought a Hardinge rear cutoff for the lever cross slide, but ran out of stations for making some of the complicated parts. That is when I got the vertical cutoff. The bolt handles for the guns required a skiving tool, which had to be mounted to the back of the lever cross slide, leaving no place for the rear cutoff tool.
I taught myself how to do mini-mass production by making Tippmann gun parts. I even got to make replacement parts for an original .45-70 Colt Gatling gun Tippmann restored. Payment included getting to shoot it when it was restored - a priceless memory.
To answer your other question, the biggest advantage of the vertical cutoff is that it frees up a station on the rear of the lever cross slide. I would only use it for mass production. The Hardinge vertical cutoff that fits the HLV-H was really meant to be used on the HC and the TFB-H, which are production machines. Of course, the HLV-H can do production work of some kinds, too.
jim rozen
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2004
- Location
- peekskill, NY
"Had to do some slotting of the screw holes..."
Boy does that sound familiar. Also for a split
bed 5-9 machine.
Aside from freeing up a X-slide station, the
other really impressive thing about those
headstock mounted cutoff slides is how well
they work, because of the inherent rigidity.
No chatter, no muss, no fuss. Just pull the
lever and the part drops off. Made me realize
that most problems folks encounter with cutoff
tools (aside from dull or incorrect grind) has
to do with lack of rigidity in the setup.
Jim
Boy does that sound familiar. Also for a split
bed 5-9 machine.
Aside from freeing up a X-slide station, the
other really impressive thing about those
headstock mounted cutoff slides is how well
they work, because of the inherent rigidity.
No chatter, no muss, no fuss. Just pull the
lever and the part drops off. Made me realize
that most problems folks encounter with cutoff
tools (aside from dull or incorrect grind) has
to do with lack of rigidity in the setup.
Jim
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