Has anyone tried "Piece Work" to pay employees?

[William Payne]

How does that work, are you expected to pay the increase in minimum wage out of your wages?

Its a joke among myself and other workers, minimum wage goes up but our wages stay the same so we joke that every increase we are getting closer to minimum wage.

 

[john.k]

Income Tax is another reason......every time the wage rises,you pay more tax ,so the government gets a fraction from 10% to 50% of your raise back.

 

[Seesecurity]

Its a joke among myself and other workers, minimum wage goes up but our wages stay the same so we joke that every increase we are getting closer to minimum wage.

You need to hit your boss up for a raise then, or go and take that call ctr job for the extra $5/hr, isn't that how the free market is supposed to work?

 

[Seesecurity]

Income Tax is another reason......every time the wage rises,you pay more tax ,so the government gets a fraction from 10% to 50% of your raise back.

That's the problem with living in a civilised society.

 

[William Payne]

You need to hit your boss up for a raise then, or go and take that call ctr job for the extra $5/hr, isn't that how the free market is supposed to work?

I agree with what you are saying, but in what world should skilled trades pay less than entry level jobs? Nothing economically makes sense anymore.

 

[john.k]

The problem is US skilled trade is competing directly with 3rd world skilled trade on a much lower wage ,.....but soon ,both will be competing with AI,as will the call centre employee.

 

[Fal Grunt]

You guys do know that Tier 1 automotive is still predominately piece rate?

10 minutes from my house is one of the largest torque converter manufacturers in the world and the vast majority of the over 2500 employees there, ie, everyone in production, run piece rate. From the guys running the $35 million dollar stamping presses, to the girls assembling blades, to the guys running the heat treat furnaces, nearly every facet of production is piece rate. Today, in 2023.

Every stamping house I have ever been in has been piece rate to some degree or another. Most production machine shops I have been in were piece rate. Even the heat treat company I use has piece rates.

I was really surprised.... at the surprise.... in this thread. I thought piece rate was normal. I guess I am naïve!

I offered a job to my son recently, and he really did not want to do it. I REALLY did not want to do it. It was a stupid short cycle time... less than a minute. I offered him a nickel for every part he ran that passed QC. He added $1.25/hr to his $5/hr wage. He was stoked. All the planets aligned. It hit him like a ton of bricks. The harder he worked, the more he earned.

 

[William Payne]

I wouldn’t object to piece rate as a bonus. I have worked under that before where you get bonuses for hitting production numbers and that was actually quite enjoyable as everyone became really competitive and worked together as a team so that we all prospered. But I wouldn’t want it on anything low volume and complicated.

 

[Strostkovy]

You guys do know that Tier 1 automotive is still predominately piece rate?

10 minutes from my house is one of the largest torque converter manufacturers in the world and the vast majority of the over 2500 employees there, ie, everyone in production, run piece rate. From the guys running the $35 million dollar stamping presses, to the girls assembling blades, to the guys running the heat treat furnaces, nearly every facet of production is piece rate. Today, in 2023.

Every stamping house I have ever been in has been piece rate to some degree or another. Most production machine shops I have been in were piece rate. Even the heat treat company I use has piece rates.

I was really surprised.... at the surprise.... in this thread. I thought piece rate was normal. I guess I am naïve!

I offered a job to my son recently, and he really did not want to do it. I REALLY did not want to do it. It was a stupid short cycle time... less than a minute. I offered him a nickel for every part he ran that passed QC. He added $1.25/hr to his $5/hr wage. He was stoked. All the planets aligned. It hit him like a ton of bricks. The harder he worked, the more he earned.

Piece rate is really easy for things in high volume

 

[jccaclimber]

You guys do know that Tier 1 automotive is still predominately piece rate?

10 minutes from my house is one of the largest torque converter manufacturers in the world and the vast majority of the over 2500 employees there, ie, everyone in production, run piece rate. From the guys running the $35 million dollar stamping presses, to the girls assembling blades, to the guys running the heat treat furnaces, nearly every facet of production is piece rate. Today, in 2023.

Every stamping house I have ever been in has been piece rate to some degree or another. Most production machine shops I have been in were piece rate. Even the heat treat company I use has piece rates.

I was really surprised.... at the surprise.... in this thread. I thought piece rate was normal. I guess I am naïve!

I offered a job to my son recently, and he really did not want to do it. I REALLY did not want to do it. It was a stupid short cycle time... less than a minute. I offered him a nickel for every part he ran that passed QC. He added $1.25/hr to his $5/hr wage. He was stoked. All the planets aligned. It hit him like a ton of bricks. The harder he worked, the more he earned.

None of the tier 1 places I have worked or audited (edit, when I was in the midwest, no where I live now) were piece rate. I wouldn't be surprised if it was regional or in specific parts.
Many of the places worked and bought from had been piece rate, but got out of it in the 90's. I was told this also overlapped with a major decrease in finding machines that all of the safety interlocks bypassed, go figure.

 

[jccaclimber]

Income Tax is another reason......every time the wage rises,you pay more tax ,so the government gets a fraction from 10% to 50% of your raise back.

I'll make you a deal, I'll pay you $10 less per hour so you can save $5/hour on your government taxes. Does this sound good to you?

 

[john.k]

Wow ,thats a deal,Ill take it!.

 

[pennswoodsed]

Jack Stack wrote a book called "The Great Game of Business" about his incentive system. It is one of thousands of business books, but his take on piece work is from personal experience. I recommend it, among others, before starting down that road.

Just a few of the problems that will have to be answered, preferably before starting:
Who decides who runs the gravy jobs, and who gets the low pay jobs?
Nobody wants to change the inserts 10 parts before shift end and let next shift get the gravy.
When shop buys better tooling or other job improvements, who recalculates the job time, even though worker is doing exact same loading and qc checks?
You will have to pay minimum wage if employee doesn't make enough parts to make minimum.

As soon as the system is announced, both management and workers will be working their hardest to game the system. To the OP, if, in your example, the operator was able to change things so they could make $40/hour and still turn out perfectly acceptable pieces, what would you do? If you would find that acceptable because you are also making more money, how will you handle the internal conflict with other employees who are making less than half as much?

Ownership and management will scramble to cut that rate ! The shop will go from being a work place to being a knife fight , maybe literally .

 

[tdmidget]

You guys do know that Tier 1 automotive is still predominately piece rate?

10 minutes from my house is one of the largest torque converter manufacturers in the world and the vast majority of the over 2500 employees there, ie, everyone in production, run piece rate. From the guys running the $35 million dollar stamping presses, to the girls assembling blades, to the guys running the heat treat furnaces, nearly every facet of production is piece rate. Today, in 2023.

Every stamping house I have ever been in has been piece rate to some degree or another. Most production machine shops I have been in were piece rate. Even the heat treat company I use has piece rates.

I was really surprised.... at the surprise.... in this thread. I thought piece rate was normal. I guess I am naïve!

I offered a job to my son recently, and he really did not want to do it. I REALLY did not want to do it. It was a stupid short cycle time... less than a minute. I offered him a nickel for every part he ran that passed QC. He added $1.25/hr to his $5/hr wage. He was stoked. All the planets aligned. It hit him like a ton of bricks. The harder he worked, the more he earns.

What up when he finds out that you fucked him be cause the minimum wage is $7.25 and you fucked him out of a buck? Good prep for life in the real world , I guess. Or he files a suit.

 

[jccaclimber]

What up when he finds out that you fucked him be cause the minimum wage is $7.25 and you fucked him out of a buck? Good prep for life in the real world , I guess. Or he files a suit.

I’m guessing we’re talking a juvenile here. Dad didn’t pay me minimum wage when I was a kid either.

 

[gustafson]

I offered a job to my son recently, and he really did not want to do it. I REALLY did not want to do it. It was a stupid short cycle time... less than a minute. I offered him a nickel for every part he ran that passed QC. He added $1.25/hr to his $5/hr wage. He was stoked. All the planets aligned. It hit him like a ton of bricks. The harder he worked, the more he earned.

What was this 1979?
LAst time I made 5 bucks an hour was about 1982
My 17 year old made better part of 20 bucks an hour as a lifeguard last year

Those Tier one plants you speak of? Massive investment in equipment and productivity
I have said many times that if you have good products that you are running on good equipment it almost doesn't matter what you pay the guy standing in front of it.
Too many guys running 20 year old Haas' complaining about productivity

 

[CarbideBob]

You guys do know that Tier 1 automotive is still predominately piece rate?
For relA;

You guys do know that Tier 1 automotive is still predominately piece rate?

For real.? This outside of any laws in the USA I know of.
Add ons for higher performance fine. Base?
Yes I know the floor, workers and pay in many tier one and tier two plants so perhaps say a name.

 

[michiganbuck]

Some piece work is/was regulated by break time..if you make X number of good parts, you can sit in the break room for the rest of the shift.
A whole-shop-by-weekly productivity bonus of about the amount of a dinner out (perhaps $200 on a good period ) would enhance better work habits. Good workers would encourage poor workers to do better. It must be honest and include output, scrap, absenteeism, and bottom line.
Certainly, you driving a Pininfarina and you guys driving old Yogos, the jig would be up.

 

[mhajicek]

I pay my ten year old $20/hr if he's keeping to it instead of goofing off.

 

[???]

Interesting reading. I haven't written down the actual numbers but it seems the predominant view is that the worker is a f**with just waiting to slack off or rip you off in some way. As some have said take a good look in the mirror.

Regarding complicated jobs not being suitable for piece work I've worked in contract tool rooms where it's essentially that. Jobs 100k minus materials and designers cost, job gets split down the middle between owner and toolmaker. Take a 3 weeks you get your money take 6 weeks you get the same money. Looks like you'll miss delivery you get help and you have to pay them.

Base pay and a agreed bonus exceeding targets in staggered amounts with a deduction for non compliant parts has worked well for me in the past.

For all those running Haas for a while you may have noticed a period of real low quality, before you say it I know it's a pretty low bar. We had a machine where we blew a few Vector drives and everything started rusting, there were also ATC problems. The technician said Haas had been paying bonuses on output and when they changed to bonuses on warranty returns or lack thereof quality went back up.