What's new
What's new

Have Canode upped their game yet?

Ok so I left this longer than I intended- a full week. First pic is before cleaning. Second is after only windex. Cleaned three times with windex then twice with acetone. There is a full on discoloration that doesn’t come off - even the red has created microscopic corrosion that’s down in the pores. But you can see in the closeups how the blue spots leave the marks. This will easily come off with a little elbow grease and a grey scotch brite pad - but there’s no doubt leaving it on the plate causes issues.

Incidentally the canode/windex side is a good deal worse than the canode/Charbonnel side.

But in the end canode - whatever it’s mixed with - is worth it to me for ease of cleanup. And cleaning it before stopping for the day totally eliminates any problems.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1933.jpeg
    IMG_1933.jpeg
    2.7 MB · Views: 12
  • IMG_1938.jpeg
    IMG_1938.jpeg
    2.9 MB · Views: 12
  • IMG_1937.jpeg
    IMG_1937.jpeg
    3 MB · Views: 11
  • IMG_1936.jpeg
    IMG_1936.jpeg
    3 MB · Views: 10
  • IMG_1935.jpeg
    IMG_1935.jpeg
    2.6 MB · Views: 9
  • IMG_1934.jpeg
    IMG_1934.jpeg
    3.1 MB · Views: 11
If there’s any doubt that canode WILL cause corrosion if left on too long here’s proof positive that it will. Despite acetone, mineral spirits, brake cleaner, windex and scotch brite the staining remains. This is a practice scraping project that’s still being scraped so not a big deal - but on the compound of a 10EE or my 2D’s saddle it certainly would be.
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    2.6 MB · Views: 12
After 50 plus years of scraping I have learned to clean off bluing at least every 3 bluing or when it gets dirty. That's why you have to wipe your hand thru the wet ink with the fingers and the palm so you can feel the dirt. Also I never leave canode or other ink on the parts when I'm not scraping. Complaining about it staining when you leave it on overnight is silly. In all my years of using Canode when the original makr Imk Specialty. I never had anyone complain when I was selling it. Possibly Artco is using a new recipe or someone deleted it with water or Windex and left it on. I wipe of the ink whether it's the bluing or highlighter after use.
 
Tried a brass brush and WD40. No luck.
In the end it took brushing some evaporust on it and letting that sit for about 15 minutes to remove the staining.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_1945.jpeg
    IMG_1945.jpeg
    2 MB · Views: 5
After 50 plus years of scraping I have learned to clean off bluing at least every 3 bluing or when it gets dirty. That's why you have to wipe your hand thru the wet ink with the fingers and the palm so you can feel the dirt. Also I never leave canode or other ink on the parts when I'm not scraping. Complaining about it staining when you leave it on overnight is silly. In all my years of using Canode when the original makr Imk Specialty. I never had anyone complain when I was selling it. Possibly Artco is using a new recipe or someone deleted it with water or Windex and left it on. I wipe of the ink whether it's the bluing or highlighter after use.
Nobody is complaining about it Rich. This was just an experiment to prove to those who doubted that if one were to get distracted and left it on for a few days that the water content would indeed cause staining and corrosion which was the whole crux of the recent discussion on this thread.

I too clean the canode off after every session for precisely this reason. This wasn’t a thing where we were talking bad about canode just a pseudo-scientific hunt for knowledge. Canode/Charbonnel is still my go to per your recommendation.
 
I like the Canode particularly after some replacement of lost water with Windex.

I have left it in place for a week or two, with no visible staining. However, what I have is the old type, before they lost the recipe and stopped making it for a while.

And, the test was made in winter, when the humidity was quite low, 15% to 20% maybe. The Canode was dried to a slightly soapy/greasy film very quickly after application. Results at higher humidity might be different.

I also cover the reference surface at all times other than when I am actually using it to spot a surface, so that I can spot with it a number of times before it needs cleaning off and re-bluing. There might be some staining effect from dust, fine swarf, or grinding dust etc that settles on Canode applied to an uncovered surface.

It is also entirely possible that the old stuff does not stain, or has very minimal staining effect. There were apparently a number of years development for the original, and some ingredient may be either missing, or added, in the new version vs the old version. So the new version may be different and may have more tendency to stain than the old type.
 
I like the Canode particularly after some replacement of lost water with Windex.

I have left it in place for a week or two, with no visible staining. However, what I have is the old type, before they lost the recipe and stopped making it for a while.
I have the old type and saw this issue, so I don't think it's due to any formula change which hasn't been substantiated anyway.

And, the test was made in winter, when the humidity was quite low, 15% to 20% maybe. The Canode was dried to a slightly soapy/greasy film very quickly after application. Results at higher humidity might be different.
Yes, I suspect it is far less likely to mark the surface in this state, but rehydrating it doesn't work great and the stuff is cheap enough that you should just clean it and reapply it later. It's the water that most likely drives or enables whatever chemical reaction we are seeing. Ambient humidity is unlikely to have a big effect on prolonging the working time of Canode, the stuff needs help after an hour or two. If you need long working time use oil based solutions.
I also cover the reference surface at all times other than when I am actually using it to spot a surface, so that I can spot with it a number of times before it needs cleaning off and re-bluing. There might be some staining effect from dust, fine swarf, or grinding dust etc that settles on Canode applied to an uncovered surface.
I'm pretty sure I noted that the Canode was covered in my testing. I also didn't mix it with anything, even water. It was 100% pure from a well stored bottle that was factory sealed. There were two other 'control' inks that were oil based over the same amount of area, for the same time, with the same treatment, on the same surface. I was testing long term workability, the discovery of the damage cut my testing short.

It is also entirely possible that the old stuff does not stain, or has very minimal staining effect. There were apparently a number of years development for the original, and some ingredient may be either missing, or added, in the new version vs the old version. So the new version may be different and may have more tendency to stain than the old type.

There's obviously a lot of variables and although it is possible that there is some outside cause, there's enough smoke to use some common sense. Based on the findings documented in this thread there is clearly a potential risk when leaving this on for prolonged periods, especially if you are mixing it with other thinning agents that are not accounted for in whatever inhibitors may be in there. This risk would seem to outweigh any convenience of leaving it on a precision reference surface. Negative results like yours are less persuasive from a risk analysis standpoint, especially when the dataset is so small, but I'm glad you don't seem affected.

People are obviously free to make their own assessments, but IMHO it outweighs any advantage to leaving the stuff on which was the only point I was making from the beginning.
 
I have the old type and saw this issue, so I don't think it's due to any formula change which hasn't been substantiated anyway.


Yes, I suspect it is far less likely to mark the surface in this state, but rehydrating it doesn't work great and the stuff is cheap enough that you should just clean it and reapply it later. It's the water that most likely drives or enables whatever chemical reaction we are seeing. Ambient humidity is unlikely to have a big effect on prolonging the working time of Canode, the stuff needs help after an hour or two. If you need long working time use oil based solutions.

I'm pretty sure I noted that the Canode was covered in my testing. I also didn't mix it with anything, even water. It was 100% pure from a well stored bottle that was factory sealed. There were two other 'control' inks that were oil based over the same amount of area, for the same time, with the same treatment, on the same surface. I was testing long term workability, the discovery of the damage cut my testing short.



There's obviously a lot of variables and although it is possible that there is some outside cause, there's enough smoke to use some common sense. Based on the findings documented in this thread there is clearly a potential risk when leaving this on for prolonged periods, especially if you are mixing it with other thinning agents that are not accounted for in whatever inhibitors may be in there. This risk would seem to outweigh any convenience of leaving it on a precision reference surface. Negative results like yours are less persuasive from a risk analysis standpoint, especially when the dataset is so small, but I'm glad you don't seem affected.

People are obviously free to make their own assessments, but IMHO it outweighs any advantage to leaving the stuff on which was the only point I was making from the beginning.
Exactly. The whole point was to demonstrate that leaving it on for long periods wasn’t smart which has been clearly proven isn’t a good idea. I’ll still use it - just continue cleaning at the end of the session.
 
I like the Canode particularly after some replacement of lost water with Windex.

I have left it in place for a week or two, with no visible staining. However, what I have is the old type, before they lost the recipe and stopped making it for a while.

And, the test was made in winter, when the humidity was quite low, 15% to 20% maybe. The Canode was dried to a slightly soapy/greasy film very quickly after application. Results at higher humidity might be different.

I also cover the reference surface at all times other than when I am actually using it to spot a surface, so that I can spot with it a number of times before it needs cleaning off and re-bluing. There might be some staining effect from dust, fine swarf, or grinding dust etc that settles on Canode applied to an uncovered surface.

It is also entirely possible that the old stuff does not stain, or has very minimal staining effect. There were apparently a number of years development for the original, and some ingredient may be either missing, or added, in the new version vs the old version. So the new version may be different and may have more tendency to stain than the old type.
Perhaps if your canode doesn’t stain after left on for two weeks it would be academically useful for you to repeat the experiment I did in order to show us how it doesn’t cause any staining in your shop.
 
........................


Yes, I suspect it is far less likely to mark the surface in this state, but rehydrating it doesn't work great and the stuff is cheap enough that you should just clean it and reapply it later.....................
That is not what I did..... I found that doing that does not work well if at all.

I remixed it IN THE BOTTLE, before applying, and found that the working time was extended. No need to try to spray and remix, etc, it just worked longer, similarly to oil base.

I don't make a habit of leaving it in place, but I mentioned an example of that being done unintentionally (not on purpose as a test) and the result being that there was no staining or other damage noted.

This is not a recommendation, nor is it a denial of the results other have seen. It is a data point.

Given that data point, I am personally not certain that Canode is necessarily damaging to iron surfaces in all cases. Nothing like spraying water on and leaving it in place, for instance.

There may be some other influence, such as swarf or dust. There may be differences in the humidity. The nature of the iron, composition, porosity, etc may have an influence. More porous iron may simply retain some pigment unless cleaned more aggressively.

Again, that does not mean you should leave it in place. And it does not mean you did not see staining.

It is just a data point indicating that corrosion or staining is not "guaranteed" in all conditions.

If I feel like it, I might scrape a CI surface, and leave Canode in place for weeks, into the summer, to see what happens. That will not be one of the straightedges, though. :D;)
 
I used Dykem for years and my Dad called me bluenose and my mom was mad because my unnderwear was always blue. When i started to teach at General Motors in 1976 or so where Dykem was banded because of jookers smearing it everywhert. They helped make Canode because of the jookers. I hated it and it was hard to get used to. Now I love it after not having stained fingers, my ears, my nose and my underwear plus other areas. Lol. They banned red lead too. I used it tooo for years. Oh well....lol
 
That is not what I did..... I found that doing that does not work well if at all.

I remixed it IN THE BOTTLE, before applying, and found that the working time was extended. No need to try to spray and remix, etc, it just worked longer, similarly to oil base.

I don't make a habit of leaving it in place, but I mentioned an example of that being done unintentionally (not on purpose as a test) and the result being that there was no staining or other damage noted.

This is not a recommendation, nor is it a denial of the results other have seen. It is a data point.

Given that data point, I am personally not certain that Canode is necessarily damaging to iron surfaces in all cases. Nothing like spraying water on and leaving it in place, for instance.

There may be some other influence, such as swarf or dust. There may be differences in the humidity. The nature of the iron, composition, porosity, etc may have an influence. More porous iron may simply retain some pigment unless cleaned more aggressively.

Again, that does not mean you should leave it in place. And it does not mean you did not see staining.

It is just a data point indicating that corrosion or staining is not "guaranteed" in all conditions.

If I feel like it, I might scrape a CI surface, and leave Canode in place for weeks, into the summer, to see what happens. That will not be one of the straightedges, though. :D;)
I think it would be very interesting to see your results of leaving it on a week. But definitely not a straightedge lol.

As I’ve mentioned I mix canode 50/50 with Charbonnel - and really love how it works. I don’t have any issues at all with it. It stays usable through hours of printing. It’s just leaving it on for multiple days that causes very small issues.
 
Am I the only one who use Dykem Hi-Spot?
I use it when I’m working on a small part and my smaller black surface plate. I just don’t like my pink plate getting stained - and to all that will mention it yes I’ve used alcohol to remove it among many other things- but a shadow of it always remains and cannot be removed. Though it does fade over time.

Mainly I really love Canode/Charbonnel and it works every bit as well for me - and no staining of me or anything else.
 
Forgot about this..... here are pics of the SE which had the Canode on it for over 2 weeks. Not a bit of staining or corrosion visible.

BUiT4gu.jpg


rX0Pphc.jpg


BUiT4gu.jpg
 
This weekend I'm teaching a scraping class. Last October I had a class. In October we were scraping a surface grinder. We were scraping the table. We were bluing it with Canode bluing and under it we highlighted the cast iron with Canode yellow deleted with Windex. Today I started to wipe off the bluing and yellow. After reading what some has written half expected rust.i took some pictures. The members who got rust must have deleted it with water as 6 months of the ink on the table...no issues at all.
 

Attachments

  • 20240413_112029.jpg
    20240413_112029.jpg
    1.7 MB · Views: 13
  • 20240413_112049.jpg
    20240413_112049.jpg
    1.5 MB · Views: 13
  • 20240413_114153.jpg
    20240413_114153.jpg
    1.6 MB · Views: 13
  • Like
Reactions: JST
I think it likely that the variance we are seeing has more to do with environmental factors than just canode. I certainly didnt add water. In fact I use canode exactly in the manner Richard has taught me - mixed 50/50 with Charbonnel. And the red as a highlighter diluted with windex.

The variance is probably due to a difference in humidity and that canode is likely hydroscopic. So in Japan and Alabama where Bakafish and I live the huge amount of humidity causes a situation where the canode draws water from the air and creates the discoloration we experienced. In Minnesota where Richard is the humidity remains low and allows the canode to basically dry to a protective film which is why he has no effect like we experienced.

My staining was so bad after my “experiment” that I had to start over from scratch with that surface plate as nothing would remove the discoloration. Richard had zero effects over six months of leaving it on. The only likely explanation is that it’s not the canode itself but a difference in the environment. Either way this is good information from both sides about an excellent and usable product.
 
For most of that time, in Minneapolis, it was likely low humidity in any heated area. So the idea is solid.

Gets very humid in Missouri, I may put a test piece somewhere other than the shop (dehumidified) to see what happens. Have not seen any issues in the shop, and I have been using Canode for a number of years.

It's potentially important to know the limits of Canode versus reference surfaces. If there is a potential for corrosion or staining, that's something we need to know.
 








 
Back
Top