Heavy 10 Rig Home and Restoration Thread- Back to Philly

[twalsh341]

Hey PM,

It's been a long time since I've picked up a restoration project. I realize working on my Stark #4 that it's not quite big enough to do some of what I wanted. I picked up a cool and very complete Atlas 618 for it's small package and threading capabilities. I finally made the leap to acquire my dream machine, a Heavy 10 with the cast iron stand, 4 1/2' bed, to stick in my rowhome basement. I found one with production cross slide, 4 way turret, collet closer and turret tailstock. I do want a regular tailstock, milling attachment and cross slide/top slide in short order, and a telescoping steady, follower and taper attachments eventually.

I'm going to chronicle things here to come, today I'm disassembling and atarting to clean and prep it's landing place in the basement. I'll post the serial number details etc.

 

[DanAl]

I will be "watching" with interest.

 

[twalsh341]

Does anyone know if a 10k tailstock would be suitable on a heavy 10?

Model number is CL 1006, 4 1/2' foot bed, Serial Number 8680RKX 11, under this on the bedway stamp is also LT - 107R

It has a tag from W.B. Rapp Machine Tools in Philadelphia,PA. They were once on 3rd St.

 

[jim rozen]

10K tailstock will not fit, I believe.

The production cross-slide might be worth some money however....

 

[twalsh341]

10K tailstock will not fit, I believe.

The production cross-slide might be worth some money however....

I may dearly like the cross slide, I do have some screw and hardware production needs in mind. Is it possible to get a compound and cross slide to be able to swap on this? or is it best to set up as one or the other, and run a QCTP on a compound?

Does the HEavy 10 Tailstock have the oil dabber hole?

 

[texasgeartrain]

I may dearly like the cross slide, I do have some screw and hardware production needs in mind. Is it possible to get a compound and cross slide to be able to swap on this? or is it best to set up as one or the other, and run a QCTP on a compound?

Does the HEavy 10 Tailstock have the oil dabber hole?

I have a 16" turret lathe. The production cross slide is heavier and more rigid than an engine lathe style, plus its longer, so I'd argue that for general work it'll have better accuracy and finishes. Another huge benefit is the production style is square, dropping a dial indicator with a mag base is a pure convenience anywhere you like, which is handy for zeroing work with a 4 jaw. Indicating off the side for length of cut is a breeze. Plus the tee slot on the side for setting up an indicator or indicator stop if measuring depth of cut. With it being square with flat surfaces, the mag base locks on tight, no rocking or false readings.

Engine lathe style not quite as friendly without your own mods. However its better for threading, or those times you want to rotate a few degrees on the compound.

Good news you can keep both. Just spin one off with the cross feed dial, and spin the other on. Same CF screw. I might advise each using their own CF nut. So you can get nut height and alignment set on both without disturbing them or re-adjusting every time you swap. I'd use a qctp on both.

If you had a power fed turret TS I'd tell you to keep it. Totally bad ass for drilling and boring. Plus the turret head is real convenient for holding different tooling. However a manual turret TS is probably not as fun. Bet you a dollar its heavier and more rigid than a regular TS though.

Edit*: Another benefit to production cross slide. Again being square and flat. . . You can easily make your own gauge for setting cutting tool height. No need to try to roll carriage to TS and hope to reach the marker there. Bam, just set your own gauge anywhere on that long flat surface, regardless of where tool is positioned, you can reach.

 

[Rob F.]

Can you put a center in the tureet tailstock and use it as a standard tailstock to support work? Or does the lever not really have any way to hold it in position?

 

[texasgeartrain]

Can you put a center in the tureet tailstock and use it as a standard tailstock to support work? Or does the lever not really have any way to hold it in position?

You can absolutely use a center on a turret TS, but the method to snug it up to the work is slightly more work.

On a regular TS, you bring TS close, and lock base. Then hand crank the center into work, and lock quill.

On a turret TS you can lock base, but there is no sliding quill, the whole upper half can slide forward. However the upper half can not be locked down like you might lock a quill. So you let the upper half retract completely, and it will butt up against a return stop. While retracted, and against the stop, you shove the whole TS assembly with dead center into the work. I use a pry bar and hold mild pressure on TS assembly to have center nicely into work. While holding that mild pressure, I lock the TS to the bed.

Bolts to lock the turret TS to bed are on the underside of TS, thus a little more work than the single bolt on top side of a regular TS.

An upside is weight and rigidity. Turret TS is maybe 3-4 times the weight and cast iron. You'll never hurt the turret TS while drilling. A regular TS has a key that holds the quill in a straight line, and both can get damaged or wore with a lot of drilling, or heavy drilling where the torque wants to twist the quill. Turret TS has no quill or key, forces applied during heavy drilling are applied to the whole upper half which has its own ways, its a beast.

Typically two bed clamps with 4 bolts hold turret TS to bed, it'll never move or slide if locked proper. Some situations a regular TS can be moved or forced back when locked down.

Another upside is less tool swapping with a 6 position head. You can essentially permanently mount live center, dead center, drill chucks, etc. . . And just rotate head to which ever one you want to use. No need to constantly pop tools out of the taper to make a change.

Downsides. Turret TS is bigger, it eats up more real-estate, on a short bed every inch may count. Fine adjusting a quill inward and locking it is more pleasant on a regular TS. Weight, its heavier, so more physical work pushing it up and down ways.

 

[twalsh341]

You can absolutely use a center on a turret TS, but the method to snug it up to the work is slightly more work.

On a regular TS, you bring TS close, and lock base. Then hand crank the center into work, and lock quill.

On a turret TS you can lock base, but there is no sliding quill, the whole upper half can slide forward. However the upper half can not be locked down like you might lock a quill. So you let the upper half retract completely, and it will butt up against a return stop. While retracted, and against the stop, you shove the whole TS assembly with dead center into the work. I use a pry bar and hold mild pressure on TS assembly to have center nicely into work. While holding that mild pressure, I lock the TS to the bed.

Bolts to lock the turret TS to bed are on the underside of TS, thus a little more work than the single bolt on top side of a regular TS.

An upside is weight and rigidity. Turret TS is maybe 3-4 times the weight and cast iron. You'll never hurt the turret TS while drilling. A regular TS has a key that holds the quill in a straight line, and both can get damaged or wore with a lot of drilling, or heavy drilling where the torque wants to twist the quill. Turret TS has no quill or key, forces applied during heavy drilling are applied to the whole upper half which has its own ways, its a beast.

Typically two bed clamps with 4 bolts hold turret TS to bed, it'll never move or slide if locked proper. Some situations a regular TS can be moved or forced back when locked down.

Another upside is less tool swapping with a 6 position head. You can essentially permanently mount live center, dead center, drill chucks, etc. . . And just rotate head to which ever one you want to use. No need to constantly pop tools out of the taper to make a change.

Downsides. Turret TS is bigger, it eats up more real-estate, on a short bed every inch may count. Fine adjusting a quill inward and locking it is more pleasant on a regular TS. Weight, its heavier, so more physical work pushing it up and down ways.

These are all really great points TexasGT, Thanks. I do have the bed length to utilize the TS so maybe I'll not worry about that as much.

I really liked the Metal Lathe Accesories cross slide, which had t slots on the back end for all the reasons you mentioned. I'm unsure if they are still in business, the website is up... but that in my mind would be the best of both worlds.

 

[SLK001]

Does the HEavy 10 Tailstock have the oil dabber hole?

Heavy 10s had the old style tailstock with the dabber hole up to approx November of 1945. It looks like your H10 is from the mid '50s. The two styles should (theoretically) be interchangeable. I would try to get a TS from the same vintage as your lathe.

 

[twalsh341]

Heavy 10s had the old style tailstock with the dabber hole up to approx November of 1945. It looks like your H10 is from the mid '50s. The two styles should (theoretically) be interchangeable. I would try to get a TS from the same vintage as your lathe.

Thanks! According to the serial # I believe it's 1955.