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Help please! Poor Monarch CM in desperate need of maintenance.

Jtlambert

Plastic
Joined
Nov 2, 2022
Hi all, first time posting here.

I recently purchased a Monarch 22CM. 12,000lbs of beautiful iron I just couldn't say no to. Unfortunately it looks like maintenance wasn't big on the previous owners list of things to do and the bearings that the drive pully ride on evidently didn't get grease in a very long time, they came out in many, many small pieces. It looks like we have most of it figured out but one thing I haven't been able to identify is the correct spring for engaging the clutch. The one that was in there is about 1.625 on the outside but the end is broken off and I don't know the free length.

Is there any chance that anyone out there has one of these machines and could give me some pointers for what I need to go get? Also, on the spider side of things it looks like the spring has a nice place to center but on the side that faces the lathe I'm guessing there was supposed to be a washer or something to help center the spring but whatever it was is long gone, there again, if anyone has any pointers for what it should be I'm sure we can whip something up.

Thanks in advance, I really appreciate any/all suggestions.

Cheers!
Joe
 

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I had to play with a couple different replacement springs from Lee Springs to get one that gave the clutch the feel I wanted for my 12CK. Check their website, they list springs by wire diameter, turns, outside diameter, etc. Getting the right turns on the spider also matters, as there is threading on both the central shaft (courser) and the inside of the larger hub (finer). I found that starting those separately a few turns apart makes a big difference in clutch operation.

Monarchlathe.com can also help with parts, and exploded diagrams, but can be costly for parts. The $50 for the manuals/parts diagrams is money well spent.
 
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Rabler,

Thanks for the reply, I'll take a stab at some springs. I did order the manual but it was pretty generic and didn't help in that area. All the other parts are ordered so we should be putting it back together next week and I'll report back with what else is broken..

Cheers!
 
adjusting that clutch is an art
pull the lid and look at the brake cone
that clearance brake to clutch and the two threads on the clutch assembly are , I think more important than any spring
 
Gentlemen,

Thanks for the help. This weekend I was able to get the clutch assembly back together and it's working great. I do have a couple remaining questions though that I'm wondering if anyone can help me with.
1. There are two oil ports on the top of the leadscrew gearbox, (circled in red). How does one identify the fill level? I can't find a sight glass anywhere.
2. The thread selector handle has a position labeled "oil tumbler at window", (Orange). I'm sure this is pretty obvious but what is that telling me, what does it do?
3. On the back side of the headstock, (outside), there appears to be a metering valve for the intake of the oil pump. How is this used? I see oil flow in the sight window but I'm not clear on how to tell if I have adequate flow to the bearings or why we're metering on the input side of a pump.
4. Is the brake adjustable? The clutch engages nicely but you have to heave up on the handle pretty hard to get the brake to stop the spindle. It's operable but not ideal.

Thanks again for the help. Tooling is on order so I'm close to putting the old gal back into service.
 

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Gentlemen,

Thanks for the help. This weekend I was able to get the clutch assembly back together and it's working great. I do have a couple remaining questions though that I'm wondering if anyone can help me with.
1. There are two oil ports on the top of the leadscrew gearbox, (circled in red). How does one identify the fill level? I can't find a sight glass anywhere.
2. The thread selector handle has a position labeled "oil tumbler at window", (Orange). I'm sure this is pretty obvious but what is that telling me, what does it do?
3. On the back side of the headstock, (outside), there appears to be a metering valve for the intake of the oil pump. How is this used? I see oil flow in the sight window but I'm not clear on how to tell if I have adequate flow to the bearings or why we're metering on the input side of a pump.
4. Is the brake adjustable? The clutch engages nicely but you have to heave up on the handle pretty hard to get the brake to stop the spindle. It's operable but not ideal.

Thanks again for the help. Tooling is on order so I'm close to putting the old gal back into service.
Item 1 is "flowing" through felt and has no "amount" because it just runs out the legs of the tubing eventually. Fill up to near top and do it once a day.

I would assume a CM has an internal oil pump driven off an eccentric on the spindle - just like my CW 16
To quote from the "general" manual page under Lubrication "The headstock is automatically lubricated both by the splash system and a plunger type pump, which supplies clean filtered oil to the Timken spindle bearings"
The "drip" or small stream in the upper sight glass shows you this system is functioning

CM headstock
 

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Thanks! Machine ran today and made chips. I did notice that the clutch hub was a bit warm after running, is that normal?
 
Gentlemen,

Thanks for the help. This weekend I was able to get the clutch assembly back together and it's working great. I do have a couple remaining questions though that I'm wondering if anyone can help me with.

1. I think John is correct.
2. I would think this is in conjunction with question #1. Place tumbler in the slot so that it lines up with the box(window) that says "oil tumbler at window". Presume filling the fill from question #1 will also drip oil onto tumbler when at that slot. Look up inside to confirm.
4. Spindle brake should be adjustable, but most likely need to lift headstock cover for that. Recommend calling Monarch for manuals. Now Monarch did like to do the same sort of thing through different models and generations. I don't have a CM Operators manual, but look at page 12 of the series 61 manual:

The pdf:
 
Update/next problem..

So we got the clutch together on the old Monarch, I'm not convinced it's exactly right but it's pretty close and the machine runs. The guys have been using it life is good. That is until this weekend when something went wrong in the headstock. In the middle of use the headstock started to make a loud squealing noise and rather than coasting down when disengaging the clutch now it comes to an abrupt stop. I'm hoping that we don't have a seized bearing but I'd be curious if anyone out there has replaced spindle bearings in one of these machines? Is it possible that the brake has dislodged and become permanently activated? We were too busy to dig into it over the weekend so I have no idea what's going on inside.

Any thoughts?

Thanks all!
 
Pretty much need to pull the headstock cover, you can run low rpm with the cover off but beware of oul thrown everywhere.

Can’t rule out a bearing, but usually runout is more of an issue then outright bearing failure. There are several bronze shoes on the clutch engagement mechanism that are common issues.
 








 
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