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HELP: Removing the motor from my K&T 2HL

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
Will watch for it... Curious to see how much old stiff grease is packed into the windings... You might get lucky... Cheers from Louisiana; Ramsay 1:)

More than a little.

IMG_7082.jpg. IMG_7083.jpg

Taking it apart was "easy." Deciding what to do about these bearings is another story.

 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
Got the bearings off. Yay! Hoover 306 bearings. I'm sure I will be able to find these. Perhaps a modern replacement - I'll have to find a bearing store near me.
 

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ramsay1

Stainless
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
port allen, louisiana usa
More than a little.

View attachment 348724. View attachment 348725

Taking it apart was "easy." Deciding what to do about these bearings is another story.


Is that a bearing pressed into some kind of carrier? How much slack is in those bearings... Sometimes, old dried grease will make bearings sound rough... Put a bit of oil in the bearings and turn them... I have done that before to soften the old dried grease and they smooth out.. Best to change them though if you can... Get some good electric motor cleaner and clean the windings.. Sprayon use to sell a good cleaner for just such a purpose.. After dry, coat the windings with Glyptol.... Any time you see a grease fitting on an old electric motor, you can pretty well bet the guts are full of old grease....If this grease gets into the windings, it causes temperature rise and motor failure lots of times....; Many good motors have been ruined in just such a manner...Cheers; Ramsay 1:)
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
Is that a bearing pressed into some kind of carrier? How much slack is in those bearings... Sometimes, old dried grease will make bearings sound rough... Put a bit of oil in the bearings and turn them... I have done that before to soften the old dried grease and they smooth out.. Best to change them though if you can... Get some good electric motor cleaner and clean the windings.. Sprayon use to sell a good cleaner for just such a purpose.. After dry, coat the windings with Glyptol.... Any time you see a grease fitting on an old electric motor, you can pretty well bet the guts are full of old grease....If this grease gets into the windings, it causes temperature rise and motor failure lots of times....; Many good motors have been ruined in just such a manner...Cheers; Ramsay 1:)

Yes, there is a carrier they are pressed in, and then they are pressed on the shaft. There's also some other shield like do-hickey that's between the bearing and the carrier. I'll post a picture after I clean it up.

The carrier then pressed into the end bells.

I'm replacing them anyway. They are cheap. I've found them listed on eBay as well as some other places. I need to make a couple calls to see if I can get them locally.
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
So here's how this bearing/carrier gets assembled. Imagine the motor shaft is coming up from the bench.

IMG_7090.jpg

Then this slinger or shield is added in next. The slot behind the slinger was completely caked with old, hardened grease.

IMG_7091.jpg. IMG_7092.jpg

Then the bearing is pressed in

IMG_7093.jpg

Then this assembly gets pressed onto the motor shaft. Then the grease cap is installed. The inside of these grease caps were also full of old, hard grease.

IMG_7095.jpg

Then the end bell can be pressed onto the entire assembly.

I have a local bearing store researching the Hoover 306 bearings. I need two of them, so buying just one off ePay doesn't make much sense.
 

ramsay1

Stainless
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
port allen, louisiana usa
Best to change both of them.. They are usually not expensive many made in China today but they seem to give good service...I usually buy a pack of them and just put them away ....Never know when you may need some of the common one.. My Cub Cadet uses some of the common sizes in the blade hubs even.. I usually pick the seals or shields out when a bearing is totally encolsed or at least take enough out so that grease can enter when greased... Cheers; Ramsay 1:)
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
Yes that looks like the stuff I use to use... It should clean without damaging insulation.. They also make an insulation too I think. 3M made some but it was terribly expensive...

I couldn't find the Sprayon stuff very easily. And that stuff is expensive. I have a can of each of the below cleaners coming today and will give each one a try.
61JMS1M+QcL._AC_SL1500_.jpg 71qnSt4dz7L._AC_SL1500_.jpg

I still have to spend some time with my wife's toothbrush and the grease on the windings. ;) I want to get as much of the loose junk of as I can before I go and spend a bunch of money on a solvent. It doesn't need to be factory perfect, but I'd like to get it reasonably clean.

2 questions, if I might.

1. You mentioned Glyptol (maybe you meant "GlypAl"?) to paint on the windings. That stuff is like $50 a quart! I don't yet know how clean I will even get these windings, if it will be paintable, but if they are, is there a reasonable substitute? That's a lot of money for something I won't ever use again.

2. What kind of grease should I use? I assume I should put some in the bearing directly prior to installation, and I'll probably put some in the cavity underneath the slinger, and then once installed, I'll pump everything until it comes out from the plug.

Thanks for the help.
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
The motor is so saturated with oil and grease now. I might use kerosene or mineral spirits for bulk cleaning. Use the spray electrical cleaners after that as a final clean up.

Those sprays are sort of like brake cleaner when in the air, feels like it sucks the oxygen from you. Recommend taking a drip pan, cardboard etc outdoors and spray that outside. Not stuff you want breathe or have lingering in the shop air.
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
The motor is so saturated with oil and grease now. I might use kerosene or mineral spirits for bulk cleaning. Use the spray electrical cleaners after that as a final clean up.

Those sprays are sort of like brake cleaner when in the air, feels like it sucks the oxygen from you. Recommend taking a drip pan, cardboard etc outdoors and spray that outside. Not stuff you want breathe or have lingering in the shop air.

OK. I wasn't sure how K-1 or mineral spirits would affect the insulation on the windings. I have a couple sure shot sprayers I think I will use with both of those chemicals and just hit it until the bulk of it comes off. A lot cheaper than any of that spray, that's for sure.
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
OK. I wasn't sure how K-1 or mineral spirits would affect the insulation on the windings. I have a couple sure shot sprayers I think I will use with both of those chemicals and just hit it until the bulk of it comes off. A lot cheaper than any of that spray, that's for sure.

Mineral spirits will air dry a little better than kero. The sprays should remove any residual oils and spirits afterwards. At that point I think glytol will stick if you are so inclined.
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
Slow but steady progress. The decades of hardened grease are putting up a valiant fight.

Spraying with Mineral Spirits then brushing with a soft brush and an old tooth brush. This is going to take a while.

IMG_7107.jpgIMG_7106.jpg
 

ramsay1

Stainless
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
port allen, louisiana usa
Slow but steady progress. The decades of hardened grease are putting up a valiant fight.

Spraying with Mineral Spirits then brushing with a soft brush and an old tooth brush. This is going to take a while.

View attachment 348935View attachment 348936

Insulation looks pretty good ....I used aprayon brand insulation and got it from Grainger , I think... Glyptol was General Electric's name. I have a quart can with some in it...Any decent #2 ball bearing grease will do.. Put some in the bearings before you install into the motor.. Be sure all the old grease is out of the passages leading to the bearings... Mind the bearing lube procedure I stated above.. That ball of grease present at disassembly bears witness to the fact that proper procedure must be followed.. Thanks for the research on the cleaner as I may have to try those next time.. Cheers from Louisiana.. Ramsay 1:
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
I called a few motor shops today. All I was looking for was someone that would bake out the remainder of the grease, varnish the windings, and test the coils. If the cost was low enough, I'd consider doing it.

One wouldn't take the job at all.

Second one said I should just clean it as best with a citrus based solvent like Zepp I can and run it since it was running before.

Third said the same thing but suggested if I wanted it cleaner, to put it in the back of my pickup and take it through a car wash! LOL!

I think I'll try a little Zepp. Get it as clean as I can until the bearings show up, then let it dry out and send it.
 

ramsay1

Stainless
Joined
Aug 19, 2003
Location
port allen, louisiana usa
I called a few motor shops today. All I was looking for was someone that would bake out the remainder of the grease, varnish the windings, and test the coils. If the cost was low enough, I'd consider doing it.

One wouldn't take the job at all.

Second one said I should just clean it as best with a citrus based solvent like Zepp I can and run it since it was running before.

Third said the same thing but suggested if I wanted it cleaner, to put it in the back of my pickup and take it through a car wash! LOL!

I think I'll try a little Zepp. Get it as clean as I can until the bearings show up, then let it dry out and send it.

Be sure to clean it with the right cleaner... I bought an old Cincinnati pedestal grinder that ran just fine when I bought it but I wanted to change the bearings and cleaned it with other than electric motor cleaner.. That lead to a rewind job....That old insulation can be delicate, hence the need for proper cleaner...Cheers Ramsay 1:)
 

MyLilMule

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 5, 2021
Location
Ohio, USA
For those that know, if I wanted to replace these bearings with a sealed bearing, would that be possible? One that wouldn't need greased?

I've ordered 2 Hoover 306 bearings from an outfit in CA, but I question if they actually have what they claim. I've seen some pretty bad reviews of them. They told my my order would arrive by Thursday, but I have no indication they have actually filled it (order status still says "Awaiting fulfillment").

It's a 30x72x19 bearing, the outer race is smooth (no groove like the one someone referenced on eBay). I've seen other 306 bearings that have removable inner races - don't need that. And the SKF equivalent (as far as I can tell) is $100 from Motion.

I'd like to weigh my options. I'm going to away from my computer for a few days, it'd be kind of nice to have something waiting for me when I get back home.
 

texasgeartrain

Titanium
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Location
Houston, TX
For those that know, if I wanted to replace these bearings with a sealed bearing, would that be possible? One that wouldn't need greased?

Motors hidden away in machines are often neglected for many years or a life time. Out of sight out of mind. Without getting greased.

So yeah, I think a sealed bearing could work for many years. And as the current owner, you'd be aware.

Taken the trouble that you have to do a real nice job, I'd be inclined to try to install without a dust shield if possible. Plus some future owner, who might take care of proper maintenance, won't try to pump grease into a sealed bearing.
 








 
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