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Help Restoring Deckel FP1

Ogriobhtha

Plastic
Joined
Aug 18, 2023
Hey all! I’m new to the forum and hoping some of you very knowledgable folks can give me some guidance. I recently came into possession of an older lever-style FP1, missing a couple key parts however. Luckily I paid very little for it, but as I am discovering I will end up spending quite a bit restoring this machine (which I am at peace with). Anyways, the first and most critical component that I am missing is the main spindle ( see attached image). This is the spindle that drives the horizontal and vertical heads. All that I have is the main casting with bearings (see pics). Does anyone have any guidance for how I might find a spare or replacement? I’ve looked at Singer and messaged FPS but haven’t heard back. Seeing as this is such a critical component I figured they shouldn’t be super hard to come by, but as I am learning half the battle is knowing what German name for the part is. Any help there? I’m not even sure how many parts I’m looking for here. The parts diagrams I have found are rather inscrutable. Regardless really hoping some of you might be able to help me! Look forward to y’all’s feedback!

Kind regards,
Murphy
 

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Welcome here. As someone that is in the middle of doing some work on the main (horizontal) spindle on a machine that is basically a close copy of your, I give you all the encouragement and hope you can find the parts you need.

A couple things in addition to what the real experts can tell you here.
Google translation does in general a good job of translating technical German to English and vice-versa.
And since the front side of the headstock and spindle appears identical to my ALG-100, give a look to the running thread named like that. At the end there is a drawing of the spindle and an explanations by Ross about the bearings. I suggest that that you also remove and inspect the tapered (front) bushing, it should come out easily by pushing from the back. The rear bearing however appears to be different as not being of the split type for clearance adjustment.
 
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Welcome here. As someone that is in the middle of doing some work on the main (horizontal) spindle a machine that is basically a close copy of your, I give you all the encouragement and hope you can find the parts you need.

A couple things in addition to what the real experts can tell you here.
Google translation does in general a good job of translating technical German to English and vice-versa.
And since the front side of the headstock and spindle appears identical to my ALG-100, give a look to the running thread named like that here. At the end there is a drawing of the spindle and an explanations by Ross about the bearings. I suggest that that you also remove and inspect the tapered (front) bushing, it should come out easily get by pushing from the back. The rear bearing however appears to be different as in being not split for clearance adjustment.
Thanks so much for the encouragement! Finding parts can be a little demoralizing so I need all the encouragement I can get. I’ll check the above mentioned thread and see what I can glean. I found an older brochure in German for the FP1 where that very sexy crosssection of the main spindle came from. In the brochure the main spindle is called the Hauptspindel. So that’s a start! Thanks!
 
Do you have the vertical milling head?
If not, even with the main spindle sorted out you would be limited to do most common operations as if milling on a lathe, heaven forbids, lots of angle plate usage, creative setups and the like.
So I think you should be looking for that at the same time.
 
I am afraid it will cost you more to find and buy the parts as buying another FP1
You do not want to know the prices of Singer Let alone FPS
Let's say, maybe 1,200 Euro for a refurbished spindle and thrust bearings? More than that?
It would be logical to think that someone that could produce new parts for €600 would make an easy sale, then again not even that is a viable option because when the manufacturer is Chinese with no international reputation.
 
@jdm1 I do not have the vertical milling head. I’ve come across a couple, the most complete of which has MK4 spindle which I understand is less desirable than SK40.

@Peter from Holland : well yes I agree however they come up for sale here in the states very rarely - at least for as long as I’ve been paying attention. It’s true they are very abundant in Europe, however, so I see your point. Hoping a little perseverance and stick-with-it-ness might pay off here :) . I’m guessing the main spindle on the FP2 isn’t the same as the FP1
 
MK4 spindle which I understand is less desirable than SK40.
For the professionals only. Back then when the FP1 was introduced MT was universal for a toolroom machine which doesn't need rapid tool changes. MT4 tooling is available at reasonable prices and for a beginner hobbyst it would be just fine.


It’s true they are very abundant in Europe, however, so I see your point. 1
Maybe you can find one in EU and have it shipped to a reputable member here for inspection and re-shipping.
 
I have sold a couple of Deckels to the USA A FP1 last year Also one to Australia
But NT40
I have a Frankenstein now Vertical spindle MT4 Horizontal spindle NT40
Shipping depends greatly on your location in the US
But you could pick it up yourself at a customers warehouse near port

Peter
 
So I can’t tell from the photos, is the original gearbox that drives the spindles still intact, or is it missing.

Looks like you need lots of parts.
If the gearbox is missing or has largely been disassembled ( parts missing)
Seems your best bet is to forget any move to return the machine to original configuration.
Missing drive components almost demands that the solution would be to go for a simpler setup and fit a self powered vertical head and forget the horizontal spindle altogether.
On that mode I would look for a Bridgeport M head. This is a smaller lighter head that was made for the first generation BP’s
I see them from time to time on eBay and other sites.
Spindles vary , some have Morse taper spindles, some I believe have Brown &Sharpe.
Use the base machine as the base, for the axis moves. Stick with hand feed to keep it simple.
Cheers Ross
 
So I can’t tell from the photos, is the original gearbox that drives the spindles still intact, or is it missing.

Looks like you need lots of parts.
If the gearbox is missing or has largely been disassembled ( parts missing)
Seems your best bet is to forget any move to return the machine to original configuration.
Missing drive components almost demands that the solution would be to go for a simpler setup and fit a self powered vertical head and forget the horizontal spindle altogether.
On that mode I would look for a Bridgeport M head. This is a smaller lighter head that was made for the first generation BP’s
I see them from time to time on eBay and other sites.
Spindles vary , some have Morse taper spindles, some I believe have Brown &Sharpe.
Use the base machine as the base, for the axis moves. Stick with hand feed to keep it simple.
Cheers Ross
The original gearbox is intact. When I turn the hand wheel in the back everything turns freely and I can see the main gear turning (that sort of long extruded-looking gear that the vertical head spindle engages with as the ram moves back and forth). Best I can tell the only missing part is the main spindle. Bushings are there. Seems such a shame to retire such a worthy machine over one missing part. If anyone ever decommissioned a wore out Or broken fp1 I would think harvesting the main spindle wouldn’t be too big a deal (?)

Funny you mention the m head. That’s in fact it’s current confirguation. Previous owner killed a massive aluminum bracket with a dovetail that fits the fp1 ram and mounted an m head to it. It certainly will work but I’m missing out on all the capability that the fp1 has to offer. The m head does not rotate either, but maybe there’s some way to modify it so it can.

Nevertheless, I picked this thing up pretty cheap so I’m open to spending some money to bring it back if I can only find the dang main spindle!

Thanks for your feedback!
 
Best I can tell the only missing part is the main spindle.

There is more,
Drawbar and its retaining nut
Thrust bearings, should be 4 pcs each different from another. These have eccentric grooves, are hardened and precision ground, not an immediate thing to a make
Tube spacer with large keyway
Driving gear.

That based on my machine, I may be missing something,


Nevertheless, I picked this thing up pretty cheap so I’m open to spending some money to bring it back if I can only find the dang main spindle!q
The problem is defining how much "some money" could be? Then without the vertical milling head all you would gain from the spindle only is horizontal milling, not really the most useful in an home shop. The wonderful capabilities of the universal milling machine come only with its accessories and their heavily weight and cost.
At least you can use the machine in it's current hybrid form. Before looking at rotating the head, get a tilting vise, which you will use all the time.
 
There is more,
Drawbar and its retaining nut
Thrust bearings, should be 4 pcs each different from another. These have eccentric grooves, are hardened and precision ground, not an immediate thing to a make
Tube spacer with large keyway
Driving gear.

That based on my machine, I may be missing something,



The problem is defining how much "some money" could be? Then without the vertical milling head all you would gain from the spindle only is horizontal milling, not really the most useful in an home shop. The wonderful capabilities of the universal milling machine come only with its accessories and their heavily weight and cost.
At least you can use the machine in it's current hybrid form. Before looking at rotating the head, get a tilting vise, which you will use all the time.
Is there any chance you could share a picture of the whole main spindle assembly? Thrust bearings, tube spacer, and driving gear? It's hard for me to visualize or make out from that one promotional brochure picture just how many pieces are involved.

I understand certainly that I would need to acquire a vertical head, draw tube, etc. Maybe it's not worth it. or maybe I can shop it hard and come across a deal here or there. It's hard to write off this beautiful machine sitting in my shop :cry:. But if everyone says its undoable or not worth the trouble then I guess I could always part it out. Considering how much spare parts are for the FP1, seems some used parts might be of interest to some?

Regardless, I really appreciate all the info you've been sharing with me!
 
I think any decision on what course of action you take on this machine should be undertaken only after fully evaluating the condition of what you have.
Need to determine the condition of the screws, ways , existing gearing, and drive elements.
Might be worth getting the main motor running and a dynamic test of the feed and spindle gearing.
Would give a chance to move the slides , allow measuring backlash and slide “rock” as well as a sense of how all you have actually works.
Cheers Ross
 
Ross gives sound advice.

If the machine checks out OK in other aspects, then I suggest that you take a number of good photos of the top so that it is clear what is missing, and a photo showing the machine serial number from the casting. Email those to Franz Singer, tell him that this is a hobby not a profession, and ask if he has the correct used parts and can give you a reasonable price for them. He is a kind person and might make an affordable offer that would get the machine back into operation.
 
Is there any chance you could share a picture of the whole main spindle assembly?
There it is just before I give yet another shot at putting it back right.
Not mentioned before, felt seal - there is also a wick/pad in the front bearing, retaining nut for the same, and the red oil "conveyor", which I think you are supposed to have because I can see the threaded holes for, in the back of the casting.

DSC_0091.JPG
 
I think any decision on what course of action you take on this machine should be undertaken only after fully evaluating the condition of what you have.
Need to determine the condition of the screws, ways , existing gearing, and drive elements.
Might be worth getting the main motor running and a dynamic test of the feed and spindle gearing.
Would give a chance to move the slides , allow measuring backlash and slide “rock” as well as a sense of how all you have actually works.
Cheers Ross
I’m getting a vfd and will be running a 220 line soon to try it out. Perhaps I should share vids and pics of this process if y’all could give more guidance from there?

Thanks so much for your advice btw!
 
Ross gives sound advice.

If the machine checks out OK in other aspects, then I suggest that you take a number of good photos of the top so that it is clear what is missing, and a photo showing the machine serial number from the casting. Email those to Franz Singer, tell him that this is a hobby not a profession, and ask if he has the correct used parts and can give you a reasonable price for them. He is a kind person and might make an affordable offer that would get the machine back into operation.
This is very helpful guidance. Once I’ve given the base a good once over and seen it worthy of restoration this sounds like a very sound plan! Thank you
 
There it is just before I give yet another shot at putting it back right.
Not mentioned before, felt seal - there is also a wick/pad in the front bearing, retaining nut for the same, and the red oil "conveyor", which I think you are supposed to have because I can see the threaded holes for, in the back of the casting.

View attachment 406201
Awesome this is massively helpful! Now I’ll stare at this for a little while 🤓
 








 
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