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Hendey 14 by 6 Tie-Bar Rehab

Patrick Black

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Location
Middle Tennessee
Good Morning All,

I’m starting this thread to document my efforts to put some life back into this poor old Hendey.

First a brief history: Thanks to Hendeyman, I found out this old lathe started life in 1915 at Bethlehem Steel, PA. After working at the steel mill, who knows, but somehow it ended up in a home shop in GA. The fellow who owned it decided it was no longer useful to him (he had a cobbled up toolrest for woodturning, go figure) and put it up on the ‘bay which is where my brother (Blackboat) found it cheaper than dirt. This is when the machine was first introduced on PM.
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=112764&highlight=hendey

Well, Blackboat decided it was a worthy project and dismantled the beast to begin it’s restoration http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=114798&highlight=hendey. The restoration was moving along nicely, that is until… Miss Monarch moved in:drool5:! What’s a guy to do? Hendey got shoved out the door and became a blue-tarp driveway orphan.

That’s how I ended up with the lathe. I posted about its trip from GA to TN back in June http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=160010&highlight=hendey. I had several time sensitive woodworking projects to finish so the pile of Hendey parts was stuffed in a dark corner to contemplate its fate:confused:. Well, now I’ve decided to start a new post as it’s been a seven months since I retrieved the lathe, and also because I’m at the point of asking a lot of “where does this thing go?” type questions. I hope that's ok with Mr. Oder.

So, where does it stand now? So far, I’ve mostly been doing “bodywork”. After sitting outdoors for several months before I could make the trip to pick it up, the moisture began to work on the black filler and started lifting the bondo and paint that Blackboat had applied to the base and bed. I decided to strip everything back off. The original black filler that remained had become punky and I didn’t think it would make a good base for the new paint so I poured on some citris strip and worked over the raw castings of the legs, drip tray, and bed with a needle scaler and cup brushes. I replaced the old filler with polyester glazing compound (kinda like bondo-lite). I also cleaned up the rust that was over all the milled surfaces with phosphoric acid.

Here is the bed, all bondo'd up and ready for primer:
BedBondo.jpg


Starting to fill the drip pan:
TrayBondo.jpg


Pan and Legs ready for primer and paint:
BaseReady.jpg


After reading all the Hendey posts in the archives, it appears that like there was no “standard” color for Hendeys back in the day. They were apparently painted to order or with whatever color they happened to have a lot of in stock at the time. I decided to do a 'paint to order' job. I chose Rock Moss Green from an old Ditzler Model A Ford color chip book and mixed up my own version with synthetic enamel paints from Tractor Supply. I also decided to brush it on and not spray since the weather’s cold and it’s a lot of trouble to convert a third my shop into a spray booth. Brushing lends itself to doing a few parts at a time and I need a lot of time since I have to paint a few parts and assemble things 'jigsaw puzzle' fashion from the pile of somewhat random parts littering my shop before I move on to the next assembly Here are the results of my slathering efforts:

Legs and drip pan done:
BasePaint.jpg


Front view of bed and base painted:
BedBase1.jpg


Back side of bed and base:
BedBase2.jpg


Below is a picture of the original dealer placard on the front of the lower right leg. I removed the placard before stripping and painting and had to make some new brass escutcheon pins using a form tool since I destroyed the old ones taking it off.

DealerTag.jpg


That’s all for now. Next stop; the headstock.

Patrick Black
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Location
Metuchen, NJ, USA
Patrick:

" I chose Rock Moss Green from an old Ditzler Model A Ford color chip book "

Computer monitors don't reproduce color exactly. Would you say it was sort of an olive green, but not as green as G.I. "O.D. Green" ??? Also, was this color seen on Model A's in conjunction with black fenders ?

You have made a unique choice ! In all the discussions of painting machines I've seen on PM, no one else has mentioned this color.

You are obviously a very skillful painter. It looks grand.
 

Patrick Black

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Location
Middle Tennessee
Computer monitors don't reproduce color exactly.

John R.

Man you're not kidding. The color looks different in every picture I take.

Would you say it was sort of an olive green, but not as green as G.I. "O.D. Green" ?
??

I couldn't have described it better myself. Think sort of a dark olive drab just a tad less olive.

Also, was this color seen on Model A's in conjunction with black fenders ?

Yes they all had black fenders from the plant. If I recall correctly, Rock Moss was used as a secondary (upper body) color along with a lighter Elkpoint green with a straw pinstripe on certain passenger cars. I've also seen it as a primary color on commercial vehicles. Please don't turn me in to the Model A judging standards board though. I'm shootin from the hip here. Honestly, I chose it mostly because it looked like it would blend well with machine oil and swarf. Thanks for the comments.

Gary P. - Thanks

Patrick Black
 
Joined
Feb 4, 2004
Location
Metuchen, NJ, USA
Jim's comment had me re-examining all the images to locate the needle scaler, then I noticed it is mentioned in the text of the original post.

But the re-examination of the photos did cause me to notice something BIG and LOW and ORANGE along the wall by the compressor in the first photo, absent from all the other photos showing that area of the shop. So, did this lathe displace another ? What was it?

Would it be too much to ask how you applied the paint?
Q1) You said you mixed it up from "synthetic enamel paints from Tractor Supply" Did you add any thinners or flow agents ? If so, what and how much ?
Q2) What kind of brushes did you use ?

I've been experimenting with Penetrol from The Flood Company in enamel, 10% by volume. It seems to help avoid brushmarks but my best efforts look amateurish when compared to your results.

John Ruth
 

Andy FitzGibbon

Diamond
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Location
Elkins WV
Keep in mind that brush strokes don't show up in photos very well.

But the re-examination of the photos did cause me to notice something BIG and LOW and ORANGE along the wall by the compressor in the first photo, absent from all the other photos showing that area of the shop. So, did this lathe displace another ? What was it?

That's the chip pan and legs for the Hendey.

Andy
 

Patrick Black

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Location
Middle Tennessee
DCB58 - Thanks

BellIndustries - No, no plans to rescrape the ways/carrage/tailstock base etc. at this point. Since I recieved it in parts, it makes sense to clean it up and put it together to see how things fit up or run-out. Taking it back apart would be a small job compared to scraping/refitting the bearing surfaces. Blackboat took a few measurements before he initially broke it down and wear looked promising. I think maximum deviation between the saddle and flat tailstock way was around 0.004". That's better than what I currently use. I also don't have the skills or reference surfaces to scape a whole lathe. Thanks for the comments.

Jim Rozen - Yeah, needle scalers Rock!:smoking: Thanks

John Oder - Thanks. I think the dark color will make the brightwork stand out. We'll see.

John Ruth, I painted the bed first. The orange thing is the base that Bro started painting. The whole thing was slated to be orange. :eek:

Q1: I used the paint with a gluglett of penetrol maybe 1:16. Also hardner at 1:16 (though I don't reccomend it). I also tried adding a bit of medium reducer to make it spread easier, which it did, but it also made it sag easier so no net benefit from brushing with reducer.

Q2: I've been experimenting a bit with brushes. My best coats have been from plain old Purdy house painting brushes. Maybe a three inch for the big stuff and about a 1 1/2 inch sash brush for the smaller bits. For the un-filled cast areas, a cheap throw-away chip brush works as good as any. I tried foam brushes but this paint is too draggy for those. I use those almost exclusively for wood varnishes though.

Sounds like you're on the right track. I try to keep it as wet as I can without sagging, and keep a wet edge wherever possible. That stuff written on rattle cans about "Several thin coats are better than one heavy coat" is to keep Krylon tech service from having to answer endless questions about runny paint, but don't consider it good advice in all cases. A common saying among automotive painters is "If you never get runs, you're not trying hard enough". There's a fine line between getting just enough to flow out flat and too much. If the mix is off, then there is no line. And the right mix changes with temp and humidity. Takes a bit of mojo and voodoo.

I've been applying two coats of primer and two coats of color. That's all it needs since it goes on thick compared to a reduced spray mix. Also, I've been wet sanding between coats so the only one that matters is the last. The rest are good for practicing the schedule.

Also don't forget the magic of cyberspace photos. It seems when I take a digital photo of something painted dead flat and flawless, it never looks as good. Conversly, when I take a picture of something say, a bit less than perfect, it seems to improve. You're probably seeing a bit of that here.

Andy F. - Bingo! Both cases.

Patrick Black
 

Patrick Black

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Location
Middle Tennessee
The Headstock

The Headstock:

Before I get into the Headstock pictures, I’d like to explain my reason for starting this post. When I started researching Hendey coneheads, I found a lot of good information here on ID, inspection, and repair; but not a lot of photographs and diagrams showing assembly details. The explanations are not always obvious without a visual reference to go by, especially when your lathe is scattered around the shop in pasteboard boxes. I figure, heck while I’m into it, and I have a digital camera, I might as well add something to the archives to maybe help out some other poor sucker in the same predicament with one caveat: I don’t really know what I’m doing. I ask, the Hendey experts out in PM land keep any eye on my work and correct any mistakes I make so I can make remedy my errors and avoid adding bad assembly pictures and information to the archives. What I’m trying to accomplish here is not a comprehensive lathe rebuild (which is beyond my capabilities), but rather a basic cleaning, inspection and cosmetic restoration. If I get too heavy or redundant with the pictures, let me know and I’ll back off a bit.

When I received the Hendey lathe “kit”, Blackboat had already removed the guarding, spindle assembly and backgear from the Headstock. The only items left, besides crud and layers of paint,were the bearings, leadscrew reversing gear assembly and a gear stud below the outboard bearing.

The reversing bevel gear bearings still fit well and rotate smoothly in their bores without excessive play. However, there is quite a bit of play on the thrust surfaces. I’ll measure this play and probably fit thrust washers to reduce it when I put it back together. It appears that most of the thrust wear is on the idler gear. If this turn out to be the case, I may get by with only one thrust washer. Sound like a plan? Any recommendation for washer material, - steel, bronze maybe?

DSC02416.jpg


Here is a close-up of the single tooth dog clutch mentioned frequently in the archives.

DSC02424.jpg


I was concerned with getting the spindle oil reservoirs as clean as possible so getting the bearings out was preferred. I bumped the inboard-bronze bearing gently with a twobufour chunk and it moved pretty easy. I just had to be careful to hold the oil slinging ring up in the center of the hole and it slid right out. There was no way the outboard babbit bearing was going to come out. The protruding babbit which forms an oil return channel had been mushroomed sometime in the past, perhaps by someone else’s attempt to remove it. Luckily the squashed portion of the babbit isolated the actual bearing surface from damaged. Cleaning the spindle bearing oil reservoirs took a lot more time than I expected. I spent two afternoons including a couple hours in the parts washer, four cans of carburetor cleaner, a quart of acetone and several hours picking and hand brushing through the limited access holes. I was surprised by the amount of gritty dust that remained on the rough cast surfaces within the oil galleys once I had de-oiled and dried these surfaces. It didn’t seem to be suspended in the oil. I have no clue what it was doing there. If someone had been sloppy in the past and left out the upper inspection plugs, then I would have expected to find other contaminants (metal chips and bugs). Could it be casting sand that was fixed to the cast surfaces but loosened up as I scrubbed it? I also found a similar insidious grit on the bottom of the headstock. The tapered bearing surfaces don’t reveal any sign of damage by grit as if someone had used the machine for a grinding/polishing beater. Anyway after a couple of days of cleaning I think I got it all (lets hope).

Here, the outboard bearing oil galley is getting a good flushing. Along with the normal oil drain location below the backgear mounting boss, there was also a drilled hole inside the gear stud bore below the outboard bearing. You can see the wash solvent running out this bore.

DSC02429.jpg


After a trip through the parts washer, I mounted the spindle cone on a wooden mandrel in the woodturning lathe to tidy it up a bit. I used light mineral oil for a polishing lube. Sure is a lot easier on the hands in the dead of winter compared to mineral spirits or some other solvent.

DSC02427.jpg


Cleaning the backgear revealed a couple of repaired teeth from the distant past by plugging and recutting the tooth profiles. The repairs look pretty good to my eye.

DSC02436.jpg


Well that’s probably enough for now, I’ll post again as I wrap up the headstock assy.

Patrick Black
 
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Archie Cheda

Stainless
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
San Luis Obispo, CA
Need sun-glasses to look at that cone pulley . . .

Patrick,

Great pics, keep them coming. Strange as it seems, your details on the clean-out of the bearing reservoirs will be of great help to me when I do the same thing on my Hendey 2G mill which is a strange combination of a geared head mill and the Hendey double cone bearings. I plan on not removing the bearings, but I do not think I can put my column in a parts washer in the same way you could do with your headstock casting.

P.S.: If you still have some grit, you can magnet test it to see if it is iron or sand. Also (for your washers), if you want something sacrificial will be dissimilar to the bevel gears & cast-iron, you could cut shim washers out of brass shim stock. Bronze would have to be thicker and I do not think you want to have to cut the original parts. Using several washers should allow you to tune the backlash for minimum play without bind. Steel washers should be OK as long as there is plenty of lubricant on them.
 

Patrick Black

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Location
Middle Tennessee
Archie -

Excellent advise on the magnets test and shims. I've got plenty of brass shim stock on hand. I've been pondering how I was going to face down a thin washer to fit. I like your idea better. Just like cutting gaskets, right?

I've seen your thread on the 2G mill. Neat machine. It's a shame about the missing table. Our spindles are very similar.

Re: The oil galleys. My parts washer is cheap and flimsy. The first time I stuck the headstock in the washer it folded up the sheet metal parts shelf. That thing must be pretty heavy because I've had a Ford 8N engine block in it that didn't do as much damage. A couple of c-clamps and a stick of wood under the edge stiffened it up enough.

My basic proceedure was to flush the galleys in the washer while scrubbing with wire bottle brushes and toothbrushes and whatever for a while. I would remove the headstock from the washer and blow the galleys out with air. Then I would flush them out with carb cleaner to get rid of the brown washer fluid. Next another blow from the air hose. Finally, I'd pour in some acetone and blow it around with the air hose to spread the acetone and dry any remaining solvent. This was all repeated multiple times. At first, when it was dry I could stick my finger in wherever it would go and rub it a bit releasing the gritty stuff. The grit wasn't limited to the sump. It was all throughout the reservoirs and the ring recesses in the upper bearing houses - fairly evenly distributed throught. I just kept after it for a couple of days until I felt like it was gone (I hope). I had a big 'ol pack of different size cheap wire tubing brushes from Harbour Freight that I was able to bend to different shapes for probing the galley below the babbit bearing. The inboard bearing housing had better access with the bearing removed (obviously) and I probably wouldn't have noticed the grit issue with the bearing in place.

Thanks for the Advice.

Jim Rozen -

I've also seen this before (may have even been in a Jim Rozen post on PM:D). I have no reservations about the repair. I'm glad someone took care of it before I got it. I would expect the repair to be durable since the pins are steel and not brittle CI.

Patrick Black
 

Patrick Black

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Location
Middle Tennessee
Need Some Advice - Twisted Bed

Well, I hit a roadblock tonight :( and need some advice. I got the headstock set on top of the bed and decided to level if up before I bolted the headstock down. I couldn't get the bed to level from one end to the other. One foot was always dangling off the ground (I'm using leveling feet here). So I decided to loosen all the bolts between the bed and the four legs and the chip tray. The feet set firmly on the ground and there was a gap between the bed and the top of the upper feet at the right rear corner and the left front corner. For the next hour and a half I kept adding shims to tweek the gap but the results didn't change. I've also tried using different reference points including the flats between the ways and the top of the outer prismatic ways. No Joy:angry:!!

It seem the bed is so stiff that whatever I try to do to adjust the base to sit flat on its feet, it doesn't matter. The bed appears to have about 0.005" twist from end to end and the base isn't heavy enough to untwist it. One guess as to the cause could be that that Drive-All hanging off the back of the lathe for all these years twisted it. Anybody got any ideas short of regrinding and scraping the bed or bolting it down. This thing is so stiff, I'm afraid it would just pull up a chunk of shop floor if I bolted it down.

Help Please!

Patrick Black
 

Patrick Black

Aluminum
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Location
Middle Tennessee
OK. I'll put away the blow torch.

Gary,

Uhhh, that never occurred to me. I think you're right. I've been so busy running around throwing shims at it and jacking on the levelers :willy_nilly:that it never occurred to me to just calm down and wait. I just took the shims out from below the bed (the chip tray isn't stiff enough to pull the bed out anyway), and then jacked the low corner up about 0.010 past level. The other end went up too, but everything seems to be slowly comming in. It's sitting there firmly on all four feet with both ends 0.010 high in the back (so it's straight). When I try to get the bubble in the center the left rear foot is dangling (more or less). I'll let it rest overnight with a little tension on the low corner and see where it is tomorrow.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Patrick Black
 

Archie Cheda

Stainless
Joined
Dec 25, 2007
Location
San Luis Obispo, CA
Removing a twist . . .

If I understand what you are doing correctly, you are not lagging the feet to a solid foundation (concrete floor?), but using rubber mounts and when you adjust things to remove the twist you are finding that gravity alone is not doing the job. I do wish that waiting would work -- nothing lost to see if it will move, but I think you will need to put anchors in you floor at the location where you will be installing the lathe and then, using the appropriate shims between the lathe feet and the floor, pull twist out of your bed.

The good news about using this factory-recommended way to install many lathes is that your whole lathe bed will pick up rigidity.

P.S.: It should work with the shims between the bed & the chip tray, but I think you will find that it is easier to do at least the fine tuning at the floor level. You may need to re-tune after a few months, but things should settle down so long as your concrete slab is stable. (This is one thing that South Bend "got right" with their adjustment box under the tail-stock which avoids having to use shims.)
 
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Jeff_G

Hot Rolled
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Granite, MD USA
Polishing Lube?

Patrick,

I used light mineral oil for a polishing lube

What was the polishing medium? Scotchbrite pads? Sure did a great job.

Regarding the pins or screws for gear tooth repair, here's another approach on a back gear pinion on an 1890s Dietz, Schumacher and Boye 24" lathe. The repair was done by George Cohen of C&L Machine in New Jersey. George's son "JB" is a member here.

DietzSchumacherandBoyeGear.jpg
 








 
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