Hendey 14x6 #19533 any info, please!

[JFulmer]

The picture is just showing where the largest groove is. If you drag your fingernail across the spindle you can feel the little grooves catching your nail. So like I said, if you have any thoughts on this let me know. Thanks

 

[johnoder]

You can, if wanted, and within 24 hours, hit the edit button and add whatever you need to to a post.

Circumferential grooves won't hurt anything. If mine, I would just make sure there was no raised metal at the side(s) of the groove sticking up above the bearing journal

A way that works for figuring the shim is:

Get thrust ring off spindle, and any shim that might be behind it.

Clean up the spindle flange face that you just uncovered so it has no burrs, raised metal or dirt.

Clean up bearing box in head stock - and especially the thrust face of the box.

With journal nice and clean and conical bore in box nice and clean, stick spindle in WITH NO OTHER PARTS until its tapered journal bottoms solidly and squarely in the tapered bore in box.

With spindle solidly held in this position, accurately measure the gap where the thrust ring goes - record this number.

Measure the the thrust ring and record that number.

The difference between the thrust ring thickness and the gap thickness is how much shim it would take to create zero running clearance in conical bearing fit up. (we assume there is some difference since it is too hard to turn)

Since you want a little running clearance, you need a little more shim thickness

How much involves trigonometry. One side of the cone you will find to be 4 degrees. The tangent of 4 degrees is 0.069992681. If I put in an extra .004 shim (over and above the difference noted above) I will create .0002 running clearance on each side of the conical bearing, because .004 X .069992681 = .00027971. An extra .005 will get you .00035 and so on.

The clean parts with clean light oil in clean ring dip chambers will spin freely with that sort of running clearance.

When you get it the way you want it, put it back together with all the parts and make chips.

 

[JFulmer]

Thank you very much on the info for measuring the shim that I will need. I have the lathe at a friends house so I will head over tomar and get some cleaning done and take measurments.


Thanks Johnoder for the info about the post within 24hrs.

I did the measurment and with the spindle all the way in with no oil, I got .193 and the thrust washer is .185 so take that away from the .193 and I get .008 add another .004 to that and I get a shim of .012, if I am right please let me know. Going by what you posted, that should have enough room to turn freely with clean light wt oil. Has anyone tryed using Marval Mystery Oil, or Dura Lube for a lubicant. Just wondering.

Another thing, is there supost to be some kind of felt at the ends of the bearing to the left side. I pulled out a piece of what looked like felt at one time that was only about 1in long. The other bearing had the felt all the way around the brass caps ( I guess thats what I will call them). What should I use to replace it with? Is it felt or wool?

 

[Patrick Black]

Hey Jfulmer,

Post 20 in the following link is Hendeyman's explanation of how the factory techs would set the running clearance in Hendey tapered spindles.

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/hendey-2g-mill-project-geared-head-universal-mill-171681/

Of course, John O is dead on the money with the trig explanation. The Hendey folks simply added 4-5 thou of clearance to the thrust face.

I'm not sure why you think you need another lathe to make a shim. You can just cut some shim stock to make a stack of the required thickness and stick it between the thrust washer and the spindle flange. If your measurements are correct, just use 0.012 of shim stock (one shim of 0.010 stock and one of 0.002 or 0.003 stock should do it). You can cut thin stock like you need with some small scissors and flatten the edges by rolling it with something smooth (like a deep socket) over something hard and flat (like a tablesaw table). Mcmaster-Carr is a good source for shim stock.

I would carefully remeasure the gap just to be sure. That 0.008 interference just sound like a bit more than I would expect. I guess if the bearing box was heated up repeatedly over time it could have worn in that much. I think that spindle journal looks fine. The wear marks will be concentric.


Pat Black

ps. Don't know about any felt. I didn't take out or put any back in mine. The bronze covers are there to direct oil back into the oil reservoirs (although they tend to be kind of leaky without sealant) so I don't see any need for felts. Also use a proper spindle oil (Mobil velocite 10) also available from McMaster Carr and not MMO or auto tranny fluid or chainsaw oil or Crisco etc. etc...

 

[JFulmer]

That is a great post you sent me to look at Patrick. I will make sure to remeasure the thrust clearance and make sure to use the right oil for it. After finding out that the shim was only .012 thick I figured I would just cut it with a sharp knife or something like that. I am happy to find so many people on here that are willing to help a guy like me out that knows nothing of working on these machines. More I think of having a working lathe in the near future the more ideas pop in my head of what I can make with it. Thanks everyone that has helped so far. I will get some more pictures of the project soon. I am heading down toward Phila, Pa in just a few minutes for my Boilermaker apprenticeship class, so I will not have a chance to get back to the machine until friday. If anyone has anything else they would like to tell me that I should check on this lathe please let me know. Thanks Again

 

[johnoder]

They are simple creatures and respond well to even tentative good sense.

J.O.

 

[JFulmer]

I don't have tooling for this lathe yet and I found a MT2 Almond tailstock 6 position tool holder and was wondering if it would be a good idea to pick it up. I will be doing some boring when the lathe is running. Right now its still under $40 plus shipping. What do you guys think. I have never heard of this so again I come the the masters that know alot more about these thing then I do.

 

[JFulmer]

Ok, so now to correct the size of the motor I have, I was told it was a 3hp but I found the motor plate in a bucket of stuff, it was stuck to the side and I never seen it. So I have a Baldor M3324 motor, it's a 2hp 3phase 208-230 volt, 1725 rpm the pulley is a 5 1/2in cog style. I think thats about it. I know the voltage is 208-230/4??. Can't remember the 400volt part since it didn't matter to me.

I picked up the shim stock today after I did a remeasurment of the spindle and thrust washer. Now all I have to do is cut it out and put all it all back together. I had the right size so from what I gather it is a thick shim for this. The spindle clearance is .193, that was pulling it back out and setting it back in firmly and well seated. The thrust washer is .185 so again with the .004 that is added for the extra clearance that puts me at .012. The machine shop I got it from sold me a 4x6in piece for $2, the other way around this was to order a 6x100in piece online for $12 plus $15 for shipping.

 

[johnoder]

Late thirties catalog specifies 2 HP 1200 RPM for 14" with the type of Hendey supplied drive that was applied to your lathe during rebuild in that period.

If you have a 2HP 1750 motor you will need to see if you can get it to drive the spindle slow enough by using a smaller motor pulley than the 5 1/2" you have described.

This catalog further specifies without this Hendey drive, that the two speed counter shaft supplied for the 14" was to run at 120 and 150 RPM, providing spindle speeds that maxed out at 478 RPM with the counter shaft running 150. Your rear cone pulley can be assumed to be the counter shaft. In no case should it run faster than 150 RPM if your intent is to duplicate factory spindle speeds.

There is another thread where I posted about the surface feet per minute on the average diameter of the front spindle bearing of Hendeys. As I recall, the 14" was one of the more pokey machines having a considerably lower SFM journal speed than the 12" machine. Possibly I can find that and link to it here.

J.O.

 

[JFulmer]

Thanks John,
I am going to have to check out the rpm when I get the measurement of the top cog. If it has been running faster then it was supose to then that might be one of the reasons the spindle shaft got tight, ( may not had enough lube at the higher speed/wore the thrust washer out too fast). Well, if I do run the machine to test it, I will make sure to run it in a lower rpm for the spindle shaft. I found out the motor I have is still for sale new with a price tag of just under $1400. So hope it will work for me. I will have to see what cog I will have to use to get the right rpm.

 

[JFulmer]

Ok, so I just finished the shim, I made it .012in thick and just traced the thrust washer and used a 2in hole saw to rough cut the center then used the straight grinder with a flapper drum on it to open up the hole to pretty close to the right size, it might be just a hair over size, but I think its close enough. Next I used some tin snips and rough cut the outside. I also finished off with the grinder. I think all in all it will work for now at lease. Here are a few pictures of the tools used and the finished product. I have to use my cell to take pictures or I can't upload them on here because they are to large of a file.

You will notice all the stuff in the back ground, well I am still in the process of cleaning up after the flood we had here. I am still storing stuff for friends that are still not fully into there houses yet.

 

[JFulmer]

I put the shim in and I didnt oil it very good yet, just rubbed a little on to put it together. Seems to be working good, at lease by hand. It turns nice and smooth. After I get it set in the garage I think I will take the thing back apart and do a really good cleaning of the machine.

 

[johnoder]

See there - old machinery thrives on a little attention and understanding.

J.O.

 

[JFulmer]

That's right John. It also helps when you get a lot of help from guys like yourself on here. I am going to update my post with what is going on with the lathe as I get further into it. It might slow down here for a little while, I am on an outage for a
PPL Power Plant on Brunners Island near York, Pa. We are going to be working 7/10's. So that might take a little of my time up, well for the next 2-3 months. I will keep reading posts as I get time. Thanks again to everyone that has helped me out.

Thanks,
Jeremy Fulmer