Hendey 16 x 6

[historical arms]

Morning folks. New member here from Canada (Alberta).

I recently came to possess an old Hendey Tie Bar lathe from a neighbor farmer. He had given the machine to a local machinery museum but they refused it claiming "too big & heavy to move for them" so he offered it to me, his next option was to take it to a metal recycler for destruction and I couldnt bear that thought. I needed this big ol' thing like a hole in the head but now that it is here, and hooked to my wall power i might as well use it a bit.
I will have a meriad of questions for forum members that have/use a similar lathe.
First question, is purchase history still available on the forum for the machine, Ser # 14835.

I have found a couple PDF's manuals for Hendey's, on is for the same tie bar cone head machine I have but it is incomplete, the other is from much later (1940's) but still covers some Cone Head stuff.
My next questions both concern power feeds...1st, the threading chart lists 80 tpi as slowest transmision feed available but that is still 12.5 thou per rev. , is there a secondary feed source for fine feed of the apron? ....and how is it accessed. I suspect a change gear might have been supplied with the lathe but none are with it now.
2nd, both manuals allude to a power cross feed being doable but neither manual explain how to engage or disengage a cross feed???

 

[johnoder]

Its a geared apron - the "feed" is not dependent on the lead screw pitch
See very bottom line on QC chart - it will say "feed 4 times TPI" or the like. In other words the "80" TPI becomes 320
- or very nearly .003

There are two feed clutches - one in the carriage hand wheel and one on face of apron. The apron clutch engages
and disengages cross feed. Either clutch is "tightened" to engage and "loosened" to disengage with your hand. Such clutches are KNOWN to get STUCK one way or the other

 

[historical arms]

Its a geared apron - the "feed" is not dependent on the lead screw pitch
See very bottom line on QC chart - it will say "feed 4 times TPI" or the like. In other words the "80" TPI becomes 320
- or very nearly .003

There are two feed clutches - one in the carriage hand wheel and one on face of apron. The apron clutch engages
and disengages cross feed. Either clutch is "tightened" to engage and "loosened" to disengage with your hand. Such clutches are KNOWN to get STUCK one way or the other

Thanks John. I have tried to manipulate that knerled hand knob below the cross slide crank but it seemed solid so might just be as you say & jammed a bit ...will give er another attempt.
I am not a trained machinist and have only worked with Tiwanese hobby lathes and am very
leary of having a crash with any moving parts on this old girl.

 

[johnoder]

Thanks John. I have tried to manipulate that knerled hand knob below the cross slide crank but it seemed solid so might just be as you say & jammed a bit ...will give er another attempt.
I am not a trained machinist and have only worked with Tiwanese hobby lathes and am very
leary of having a crash with any moving parts on this old girl.

If one can borrow or otherwise acquire a sizeable pair of water pump pliers and jaw pads to suit they could assist in breaking loose any stuck clutch.

If when you run the lathe (normal chuck rotation) no cross feeding is going on then that is your clue that the "stuck" wll be UNDONE by turning clutch knob CLOCKWISE

 

[marka12161]

Another option on loosening the feed clutches is a strap wrench with, as John suggests, some type of padding. I prefer leather to protect the knurled finish on the clutch hand wheel.

 

[historical arms]

There isnt much "kurling" left on the cross feed knob so I think previous owners used "less than padded" tooling to operate the clutch. I'm suspicious that if tools were used to operatethey may have been "over exuberant" in tightening it up. Will be a couple days before i get to the shop to try freeing it up ( doing some outside yard work before the north freezes up solid LOL).

Before I do too much with this lathe I have to align the top & bottom pully's so the belt tightens on all speeds. this lathe came with the Cullman Wheel Co. 2 hp electric conversion, a very top heavy affair that I removed to facilitate safely moving the thing with the rudimentary crane system I have and I got it close when re-installed but it needs an adjustment.

 

[hendeyman]

historical arms:

The Serial Number you posted is for a 14" x 6' Tie Bar model completed during the third week of August 1913. As such, it has
a Single Walled Apron, the Double Walled Apron on the 14" lathes did not appear until late in 1915. The original owner was the
Lox Clock Company, no address or state was listed. At a later date it was owned by the Bristol Company, Waterbury, Conn.
It was shipped with a Taper Attachment and a set of No. 2 Collets. There are no longer any Patterns, Castings or Repair Parts
left in inventory for this lathe, but all of the original drawings are still in the files, so parts can be made if required.

As an addendum to John Oder's comment regarding the Feed Rate, the "Four Times" applies to the Feed Rate used on later
models. Your lathe uses the "Seven Times" Feed Rate, which at 560 threads per inch is a much finer Feed than the 320 threads that John quoted. This should give you a very nice finish. This idea was improved upon on the 12 inch High Speed
lathes with 1600 threads per inch.

Regarding the Cross Feed Clutch, considering the construction, I would not apply a wench to the Friction Shaft, the Friction
is cast iron and can be damaged with excessive torque. Since this lathe is fairly old, it would be better to remove the entire
Apron and check all of the parts. You will want to make sure that the keys are in good shape and that the Friction, when
seated, is either flush with or a bit proud of the Clutch Face. If the Fiction is below the Clutch Face it will not transmit the
necessary power to drive the Cross Feed Shaft. This is a good time to repair any worn bushings or shafts.

Hendeyman

 

[Peroni]

The original owner was the Lox Clock Company

Per chance might this have been a typo and it was actually the Lux Clock Company? They started in Waterbury CT in 1914.

 

[historical arms]

Hendeyman, Thank you so much for your time & efforts to clarify the history of these old girls.

This lathe must be a parted together machine at one time or another in its life. The ser # I gave is on a small plate/tag attached to the gear box but the lathe bed casting clearly has 16 X 6 cast into it.
The recent history I have from previous owner was that the Lathe was purchased in a U.S Navy lot in a surplus auction at Butte Montana prob 20 or so years ago by his father in Law and then driven across the border to where I picked it up in central Alberta.
I dont know what color Hendeys left the factory with and I have never been close to a US Navy ship but from the movies I have watched, the paint on this lathe appears to be the same light blue.
Im not sure I'm man enough to take that heavy ol' apron off anymore (not in as good of health as i used to be)LOL but will try to find any characteristics between a 14 or a 16 lathe.

 

[historical arms]

I got both drive clutch's operable, the long feed was an easy twist of the knob but that cross slide drive was very tight and required "tool help" but once it snapped loose it seems to work easily now.
Now a question for the forum on the taper attachment. I have never used or had one available to me on any lathe and I think I am right in assuming that the cross slide lead screw must be released from the cross slide so it can slide freely....but for the life of me I cant see any easy "disconnect"....how do I do that.
A point on the 14" ser # history Hendeyman provided and the 16 x 6 casting I have. I can see no characteristics that would indicate any part of this lathe is 14", the swing clearance from center of axis to the bead easily will accommodate a 16" workpiece and the treading index plate is the same as the 16" pictured in both manuals I have .

 

[hendeyman]

historical arms:

I am sure that your lathe is a 16 inch model, the problem was caused by the serial number on the brass plate. May I suggest
that you take a small wire brush and some solvent and clean the area between the front bedway and the flat bedway that the
tailstock rides on. Clean an area that is about three inches from the end of the bed, that should expose the Serial Number.
With this information I should be able to give you he correct history of your lathe.

Hendeyman

 

[M.B. Naegle]

......
Now a question for the forum on the taper attachment. I have never used or had one available to me on any lathe and I think I am right in assuming that the cross slide lead screw must be released from the cross slide so it can slide freely....but for the life of me I cant see any easy "disconnect"....how do I do that.
......

If it's like my 1909 Hendey, there is a square headed bolt sticking out the side of the saddle on the back right wing that you would loosen to use the TA or tighten to use conventionally. The screw clamps a block in place that the tail end of the cross feed screw rides in, and the front side of the cross feed screw is in a bearing that slides loose in the saddle. This way the taper attachment moves the cross feed and the screw together.

 

[historical arms]

historical arms:

I am sure that your lathe is a 16 inch model, the problem was caused by the serial number on the brass plate. May I suggest
that you take a small wire brush and some solvent and clean the area between the front bedway and the flat bedway that the
tailstock rides on. Clean an area that is about three inches from the end of the bed, that should expose the Serial Number.
With this information I should be able to give you he correct history of your lathe.

Hendeyman

well I did find the number and it appears to be 18037. I say "appears to be" because the 3 could be an 8, it was poorly struck and then it has a nick in the steel where something has been dropped on it. I am pretty sure it is a "3" but if that shows something entirely different than a 16x6, then it must be an 8.


thank you so much for your time on this thing. that other # on the brass plate must be an internal machine # for some company in the machines history.

 

[historical arms]

If it's like my 1909 Hendey, there is a square headed bolt sticking out the side of the saddle on the back right wing that you would loosen to use the TA or tighten to use conventionally. The screw clamps a block in place that the tail end of the cross feed screw rides in, and the front side of the cross feed screw is in a bearing that slides loose in the saddle. This way the taper attachment moves the cross feed and the screw together.

Thank you for this. I did find the square headed bolt and loosened it off but can only get the cross slide to move the amout of backlash in the feed screw. The feed screw on this lathe wont slide independently of the saddle. I goes through a hole in the saddle and appears to be solidly attached within.
I can see what appears to be a slide mechanism at the back end of the cross slide but cant seem to make it move any. I will try again today to make it work.

 

[hendeyman]

well I did find the number and it appears to be 18037. I say "appears to be" because the 3 could be an 8, it was poorly struck and then it has a nick in the steel where something has been dropped on it. I am pretty sure it is a "3" but if that shows something entirely different than a 16x6, then it must be an 8.


thank you so much for your time on this thing. that other # on the brass plate must be an internal machine # for some company in the machines history.

historical arms:

Hendey Lathe No. 18037, a 16" x 6' Cone Head model was completed during the last week of December 1916. It features
the design charges introduced in January 1915 and includes a Double Walled Apron, a new Gear Box, Carriage and Cross Slide. It was shipped with a Taper Attachment and an Oil Pan. The original owner was the Willys Overland Company, no city
or state was listed. There are no Patterns, Casting or Repair Parts left in inventory for this lathe, but all of the original drawings
are still in the files, so parts can be made if required.

Hendeyman

 

[historical arms]

historical arms:

Hendey Lathe No. 18037, a 16" x 6' Cone Head model was completed during the last week of December 1916. It features
the design charges introduced in January 1915 and includes a Double Walled Apron, a new Gear Box, Carriage and Cross Slide. It was shipped with a Taper Attachment and an Oil Pan. The original owner was the Willys Overland Company, no city
or state was listed. There are no Patterns, Casting or Repair Parts left in inventory for this lathe, but all of the original drawings
are still in the files, so parts can be made if required.

Hendeyman

I think we got the right one this time thank you again. It would take a bit of an antique collector to understand how much a bit of old info on one thing or another fills a void. i have a small collection of 1860's-1890's rifles & pistols and I wish every one of them could tell me their story but there are very little firearms histories available like you provide here, most burnt up in factory fires from the old stoves of the time.

 

[historical arms]

Thank you for this. I did find the square headed bolt and loosened it off but can only get the cross slide to move the amout of backlash in the feed screw. The feed screw on this lathe wont slide independently of the saddle. I goes through a hole in the saddle and appears to be solidly attached within.
I can see what appears to be a slide mechanism at the back end of the cross slide but cant seem to make it move any. I will try again today to make it work.

I had another go at it today and you are absolutely right on it working...I dont know how it does when the cross can freely slide but yet it is still connected, the cross can be advanced or retracted with the lead screw.
I rigged it as you said and then added a bunch of taper angle to the angle bar and then moved the saddle with hand wheel/ rack & pinion....and damn if it didnt slide as you said it would.
Thank you Mr Naegle