Peroni
Cast Iron
- Joined
- May 18, 2007
- Location
- Yadkinville, NC
Interesting that the bronze part on your lathe is steel on both of mine whilst using a bronze bushing instead of your steel one.
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Hendey Tool & Gage Restoration
- Thread starter jwearing
- Start date
- Replies 141
- Views 38,618
Wow, almost a year since my last post. I have been busy with work and moving slowly with this project. But I have finally finished the headstock and tailstock.
Step one was restoring the tailstock quill. First step was to hone the bore. Easier said than done, I don't have a Sunnen hone and none of the shops I called would take the job. One machinist was very helpful but he didn't have a long enough mandrel. After callling a couple dozen others, I decided to just buy my own mandrel and take it back to the helpful guy. But then he was too busy! After waiting for a while, he agreed to let me rent some time on his hone. It was the first time I've used one, they are fantastic machines. I hit a tenth on diameter over the length of the bore.
Next was to make a new quill. Which was a failure. I was unable to get the taper concentric to the OD. I was using my old SB10L, without a taper attachment. So instead I just made a simple test bar so that I can move forward with the alignment. I cut a 60º point at one end and roughed the OD. Then I made a lap and lapped the OD to about .0003-.0005" smaller than the bore. For whatever reason I found it harder to hit the diameter lapping than with honing.
Once I had a makeshift quill I scraped the tailstock to alignment. When finished it was about .010" lower than the headstock. Not bad. So I decided to go ahead and remove .010" from the headstock rather than shim the tailstock.
Scraping the headstock was a huge pain in the ass. Well over a hundred cycles. The SOB is 75 lbs, not fun to carry back and forth to the lathe for spotting. And the only way I could mount it to the bench was on its back, and scraping vertically is always uncomfortable.
I really dislike the prismatic ways. If the angled ways are loose the HS/TS won't locate accurately. If the angled ways are slightly tight then the ways will splay outwards when it's clamped down. Even when it spots perfectly, it will tighten up when clamped down the ways splay outwards a couple tenths. The angled ways have to be just very slightly loose to get it perfect. Now that I've finished this, I really think the standard vee plus flat configuration is superior.
After some back and forth, I finally got everything finished. HS spindle points upwards .0002"/12", forwards .0001"/12". TS quill points upwards .0004"/4", forwards .0003"/4". And the TS is .0003" higher than the HS. Perfect. Yeah, some folks like the TS to be higher, but it's in spec and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend another minute scraping that headstock. Done.
With the headstock dropping about .010", there were some gears that needed to be adjusted too. There is a backgear pinion underneath the headstock. It was easy enough to remove some material from the mounting surface to drop it to the correct height. There is also the rear headstock assembly with the leadscrew-reverse gearing, and it had to be dropped about the same amount as the headstock. I milled most of it and scraped to fit. In both cases I ended up with .005" backlash on the gears, a bit more than I wanted but good enough.
It's nice to be done with this part. If work cooperates, maybe I'll finish in 2023.
Step one was restoring the tailstock quill. First step was to hone the bore. Easier said than done, I don't have a Sunnen hone and none of the shops I called would take the job. One machinist was very helpful but he didn't have a long enough mandrel. After callling a couple dozen others, I decided to just buy my own mandrel and take it back to the helpful guy. But then he was too busy! After waiting for a while, he agreed to let me rent some time on his hone. It was the first time I've used one, they are fantastic machines. I hit a tenth on diameter over the length of the bore.
Next was to make a new quill. Which was a failure. I was unable to get the taper concentric to the OD. I was using my old SB10L, without a taper attachment. So instead I just made a simple test bar so that I can move forward with the alignment. I cut a 60º point at one end and roughed the OD. Then I made a lap and lapped the OD to about .0003-.0005" smaller than the bore. For whatever reason I found it harder to hit the diameter lapping than with honing.
Once I had a makeshift quill I scraped the tailstock to alignment. When finished it was about .010" lower than the headstock. Not bad. So I decided to go ahead and remove .010" from the headstock rather than shim the tailstock.
Scraping the headstock was a huge pain in the ass. Well over a hundred cycles. The SOB is 75 lbs, not fun to carry back and forth to the lathe for spotting. And the only way I could mount it to the bench was on its back, and scraping vertically is always uncomfortable.
I really dislike the prismatic ways. If the angled ways are loose the HS/TS won't locate accurately. If the angled ways are slightly tight then the ways will splay outwards when it's clamped down. Even when it spots perfectly, it will tighten up when clamped down the ways splay outwards a couple tenths. The angled ways have to be just very slightly loose to get it perfect. Now that I've finished this, I really think the standard vee plus flat configuration is superior.
After some back and forth, I finally got everything finished. HS spindle points upwards .0002"/12", forwards .0001"/12". TS quill points upwards .0004"/4", forwards .0003"/4". And the TS is .0003" higher than the HS. Perfect. Yeah, some folks like the TS to be higher, but it's in spec and I'll be damned if I'm going to spend another minute scraping that headstock. Done.
With the headstock dropping about .010", there were some gears that needed to be adjusted too. There is a backgear pinion underneath the headstock. It was easy enough to remove some material from the mounting surface to drop it to the correct height. There is also the rear headstock assembly with the leadscrew-reverse gearing, and it had to be dropped about the same amount as the headstock. I milled most of it and scraped to fit. In both cases I ended up with .005" backlash on the gears, a bit more than I wanted but good enough.
It's nice to be done with this part. If work cooperates, maybe I'll finish in 2023.
wagoneer1
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2010
- Location
- North Carolina USA
Excellent work, Sir!
Peroni
Cast Iron
- Joined
- May 18, 2007
- Location
- Yadkinville, NC
Gives you a whole new appreciation to guys who scraped these things at the factory.
I've been making decent progress on the lathe lately but I tired of posting pics for every little update. But this one was kind of significant and some of you have asked about it.
I had decided early on not to build up the carriage with turcite/moglice. I had first planned on re-pinning the gearbox and leadscrew support, but when I once I took a closer look it seemed like a lot of work and it would be hard to do accurately. The third option, rarely chosen, is raising the apron by removing some material from the apron/saddle mounting surface, and adjusting the gears to mesh correctly. I had been thinking about this for a while and I found it really attractive, so I decided to try it.
First I milled .030" from the top of the apron and scraped it flat.
The gear on the cross slide screw is driven by a 113 tooth 28DP idler gear. I decided to make a new gear with only 112 teeth, which will give a diameter reduction of .035", and then shift the center of the gear downwards towards the clutch gear. And the center can be moved easily by replacing the shaft with an eccentric one.
I had no surprises making the gear blank, but I had a hard time sourcing a 28DP gear cutter. I ended up sending the blank to member Dan From Oakland for hobbing, he did the work really fast and it came out great. I might just to go him for all my gears from now on.
Making the eccentric shaft was a pain. It was a lot harder than I expected to get the offset perfect and get it pinned in the right place. And if it's even a tiny bit off the gears bind. After multiple attempts I got it perfect with about .002" backlash on each side. I pinned it from the back with a dog point set screw to keep it from rotating. It works great now, everything operates very smoothly.
Here are the gears. Original on the left, the new one on the right.
This is how everything fits together in the apron. (It's upside-down).
And now I'm done with scraping. I have to do some more cosmetic work and put on another coat of paint (it's all stained blue). And then I'll finish assembly.
I had decided early on not to build up the carriage with turcite/moglice. I had first planned on re-pinning the gearbox and leadscrew support, but when I once I took a closer look it seemed like a lot of work and it would be hard to do accurately. The third option, rarely chosen, is raising the apron by removing some material from the apron/saddle mounting surface, and adjusting the gears to mesh correctly. I had been thinking about this for a while and I found it really attractive, so I decided to try it.
First I milled .030" from the top of the apron and scraped it flat.
The gear on the cross slide screw is driven by a 113 tooth 28DP idler gear. I decided to make a new gear with only 112 teeth, which will give a diameter reduction of .035", and then shift the center of the gear downwards towards the clutch gear. And the center can be moved easily by replacing the shaft with an eccentric one.
I had no surprises making the gear blank, but I had a hard time sourcing a 28DP gear cutter. I ended up sending the blank to member Dan From Oakland for hobbing, he did the work really fast and it came out great. I might just to go him for all my gears from now on.
Making the eccentric shaft was a pain. It was a lot harder than I expected to get the offset perfect and get it pinned in the right place. And if it's even a tiny bit off the gears bind. After multiple attempts I got it perfect with about .002" backlash on each side. I pinned it from the back with a dog point set screw to keep it from rotating. It works great now, everything operates very smoothly.
Here are the gears. Original on the left, the new one on the right.
This is how everything fits together in the apron. (It's upside-down).
And now I'm done with scraping. I have to do some more cosmetic work and put on another coat of paint (it's all stained blue). And then I'll finish assembly.
Last edited:
Another update, I finally addressed the missing door panels on the cabinet. Earlier this year I made patterns and sent them out to Cattail. It took a few months and I just received the castings, very pleased with how they turned out.
If any other T&G owners need these doors let me know, I'll be hanging onto the patterns for a while.
If any other T&G owners need these doors let me know, I'll be hanging onto the patterns for a while.
Tom A
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Apr 26, 2009
- Location
- NW Florida
They look great - Both you and Cattail did a nice job.
Are you planning to open up the louvers, or just leave them as cast?
Are you planning to open up the louvers, or just leave them as cast?
It took five years, but the lathe is done! Well... done enough for pictures anyways.
It's been a great project. More than I bargained for, but I don't regret it at all. I learned a lot, and it feels great to have a unique piece of history like this in like-new condition. The biggest part of the job by far was scraping. I would do it again, but next time I might get the bed ground and just scrape everything else.
There are a couple more things to do before I'll be making chips. But I have run it up to speed and operated all the controls. It runs so smoothly. The the levers (mostly) operate with a really smooth motion and a satisfying snap. It's a lot easier to operate than my South Bend, it's really going to make threading a breeze.
I'm thinking about making some metric change gears. Also I'm going to wire an e-stop and maybe an electric brake into the brake pedal. And maybe a DRO, if it can be mounted without interfering with the taper attachment.
Thanks everyone for following along!
It's been a great project. More than I bargained for, but I don't regret it at all. I learned a lot, and it feels great to have a unique piece of history like this in like-new condition. The biggest part of the job by far was scraping. I would do it again, but next time I might get the bed ground and just scrape everything else.
There are a couple more things to do before I'll be making chips. But I have run it up to speed and operated all the controls. It runs so smoothly. The the levers (mostly) operate with a really smooth motion and a satisfying snap. It's a lot easier to operate than my South Bend, it's really going to make threading a breeze.
I'm thinking about making some metric change gears. Also I'm going to wire an e-stop and maybe an electric brake into the brake pedal. And maybe a DRO, if it can be mounted without interfering with the taper attachment.
Thanks everyone for following along!
Attachments
shapeaholic
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2003
- Location
- Kemptville Ontario, Canada
Boy that sure is perdy!!
Congratulations on a job week done!
Congratulations on a job week done!
p3bhambama
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2023
That. Is. Awesome. Just an exceptional job bringing this amazing machine back to life. I can only imagine the joy using it will bring. And the fact that it’s going to be perfect in every way should make for an incredible machine. Best I’ve seen in here bar none.
Peroni
Cast Iron
- Joined
- May 18, 2007
- Location
- Yadkinville, NC
Absolutely beautiful!
morsetaper2
Diamond
- Joined
- Jul 2, 2002
- Location
- Gaithersburg, MD USA
Amazing! Esp considering your starting point on day #1. 
MCritchley
Stainless
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2007
- Location
- Brooklyn WI
Nice work Mate! You don't see too many before and after photos like that.
Stunning! the scraping marks give it a totally different kind of vibe for the t&g.
i’ve been contemplating the best way to mount a dro on mine for a while now - the taper attachment makes it complicated, and the slim cross slide and compound castings dont help either. they definitely managed to pack everything together as tightly as possible. interested to see if you’ve come up with any good ideas.
at this point i’m using a magnetic slide mounted to a carriage stop type block on the rear ways. kind of like an extreme reach indicator measuring off the carriage. works alright for most things, but it would be real nice to have a proper dro installed.
i’ve been contemplating the best way to mount a dro on mine for a while now - the taper attachment makes it complicated, and the slim cross slide and compound castings dont help either. they definitely managed to pack everything together as tightly as possible. interested to see if you’ve come up with any good ideas.
at this point i’m using a magnetic slide mounted to a carriage stop type block on the rear ways. kind of like an extreme reach indicator measuring off the carriage. works alright for most things, but it would be real nice to have a proper dro installed.
dundeeshopnut
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2020
Beautiful work on a PROPER complete restoration!!! I wouldn't consider a DRO on such an tight, accurate, and true machine, at least not until you run it for a while and generate some income with it.
Andy FitzGibbon
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2005
- Location
- Elkins WV
Considering all the ways a DRO can make running said machine easier, I'm confused by this recommendation.
dundeeshopnut
Hot Rolled
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2020
I was referring to the skills of reading the dials and a little mental math the original users did. Sorry, I have a hard time finding the right words, but basically, the joy of creating a part or repair without staring at a computer screen or readout.
Andy FitzGibbon
Diamond
- Joined
- Sep 5, 2005
- Location
- Elkins WV
There's a power switch on the DRO for those moments. And it'll still be there for those moments when it's benefits are required.
