Hermle UWF800 mill - Anyone got a manual ? (photo)

[Milacron]

 

[TNB]

FWIW you can download a french copy of the UWF801 manual here :

MEGAUPLOAD - The leading online storage and file delivery service

I know it's not the machine you're looking for and I don't know if you can read french, but I thought you'd decide for yourself wether it's interesting or not !

From the pictures, the machines seem rather similar.

 

[Kees]

Not sure difference 800 / 801

Hermle UWF 801 Werkzeugfräsmaschine Nr.9246 bei eBay.de: Maschinenwerkzeuge (endet 26.10.10 12:04:04 MESZ)

 

[Milacron]

From the pictures, the machines seem rather similar.

Thanks T, better than I expected to find a whole manual online like that. The differences in 800 and 801 that I see....the 801 has it's controls on a seperate pedestal and seems to have an Active DRO system. Also the 801 spindle motor is on top, whereas it pokes out the back on the 800.

But more similarities than differences so that is helpful, esp the section on the rotary universal table.

Now if I could just read French...although I can make out more of it than I can German...

 

[TNB]

You know I'll help you as much as I can with that weird language if need be .

 

[Milacron]

You know I'll help you as much as I can with that weird language if need be .

Well since you mention it... I am curious about page 32, which seems to concern the oil circulaton of the spindle gearing. I'm mostly curious if that is a totally closed system or if it's a sort of splashing sump situation.

Looks closed in the drawing but when the mill was off level during loading some oil did leak from the front of the ram.... so wondering if it might be similar to a Moore jig bore where the screws are submurged in oil when the machine is level but some oil can drip out when it's not level....or not ?

 

[TNB]

Page 32 :

"The ram (1) is fitted with a lubrication system with oil circulation and cooling.
All the lubrication points of the ram, except the front roller bearing will receive oil through the lubrication line (2) and holes (3).

The heating oil is sucked out the ram by mean of a pump (4) and and driven under pressure through a serpentine water cooler (5 - 6) in the line (2).

Check the oil circulation every day with the oil sight (indicateur de circulation d'huile).
Check oil level with the gauge (jauge) every 50 hrs
Clean filter (9) every 200 hrs with benzin
Change oil every 2000 hrs

Proceed as follow :

Remove the return line above the pump and let it drain.
Let the pump work for a minute so as to empty all the lubrication cirtuit
Detach the line at point 7, and use compressed air (with a pressure of 6 to 7 bar) to clean the line (2) and lubrication holes (3).
Full up the tank with approx. 3 liters of fresh oil.
Every 2000 hrs, check the water level in tank 5 by removing the plastic cap (8), and fill as required. "

From the drawing, I'd say that it's not a closed system. There's a pressure lubrication circuit with a remote oil tank but also more or less staining oil in the botom of the ram casting.

 

[rklopp]

Water cooling? Seriously? The Deckel salesmen must have had a field day pointing out the disadvantages. I wonder why the designers thought they needed it. What is the top speed on this baby, 2,500 RPM?

 

[Milacron]

Water cooling? Seriously? The Deckel salesmen must have had a field day pointing out the disadvantages. I wonder why the designers thought they needed it. What is the top speed on this baby, 2,500 RPM?

I see no evidence of water cooling on the 800. Interesting the Hermle managed to cram all the electrical into the body of the machine (on the 800 anyway)...I have yet to pry open the panel to see how they managed that. The only modern* manual Deckel with electrics not seperate was the FP4MK and even that one had a rather large electrical panel bolted to the body.

Thanks for the translation T !


*yeah I know there were some ancient FP1's self contained...that's why I put "modern"...

 

[Milacron]

I ran the Hermle for the first time yesterday. I'm surprised how much I like this mill.... head is very quiet, DC power feed works great. Amazing they crammed so much machine in such a small package... 500mm of X travel and yet smaller physically than the last generation Deckel FP2 with no seperate electrical cabinet. Only weighs about 2,400 lbs.

Seeing as the rotary universal table has the same mount spacing as Deckel, now the dilemma is whether to sell that seperate or keep it on the machine.

Seems like the table alone would be worth at least $3,500 and yet the whole machine with the table might not sell for much more than that, due to the typical Deckelite aversion to anything that is not Deckel. (I do have an angular table I could put on the Hermle if the rotary is removed) Now that I have both Deckel and Hermle rotary universal tables in house I can tell you the Hermle one is actually more impressively built than the Deckel version. Tilts 45 degrees left/right and 15 degrees "nod" each direction.

Thoughts ?

 

[AlfaGTA]

Now that I have both Deckel and Hermle rotary universal tables in house I can tell you the Hermle one is actually more impressively built than the Deckel version. Tilts 45 degrees left/right and 15 degrees "nod" each direction.

Thoughts ?

15 degree nod is not enough...Deckel unit goes full 45 in one direction and 15 the oopposite in the nod direction. Need most in nod because this is the direction that the head does not angle.....and the direction that favors the longest working axis "X" .
Looks like a nice unit...does it have indicators on all two tilting planes to recover the tram like the Deckel unit?
Looks to have a single lever rotation clamp as well.
What about multi gear rotation?
Cheers Ross

 

[AlfaGTA]

As to the machine...not a big fan of the multi lever gear shift for spindle speed selection...always takes longer to shift and less easily seen as to the wanted speed...almost always have to look at a chart then move the levers to the proper letter or number combination....
Deckel gear change setup just better...all ranges on a dial and you can see where the desired speed is and the shortest rotation to that gear...

As to the 500 mm movement on the "X"...Deckel had that on the early FP2's and changed it on the later machines...not sure if that was to give the FP3 an edge or because on a "2" the long travel just did not give good results. (accuracy, ridigity?)

I like the feed switches (at least i think they are) for the axis...
And does the vertical head have a mechanical quill feed? Looks like it might.

Cheers Ross

 

[Milacron]

15 degree nod is not enough...Deckel unit goes full 45 in one direction and 15 the oopposite in the nod direction. Need most in nod because this is the direction that the head does not angle.....and the direction that favors the longest working axis "X" .
Looks like a nice unit...does it have indicators on all two tilting planes to recover the tram like the Deckel unit?
Looks to have a single lever rotation clamp as well.
What about multi gear rotation?

Actually I was just assuming 15 degree nod both directions because I couldn't see the full scale...but now that I look closer at the Hermle manual it appears that nod is indeed 15/45 degrees.

Re indicators to recover tram, no...but neither does the Deckel "universally adjustable circular table" (stock 2037)...which is what I'm comparing it to.

Re clamp...has 2 rotational clamps, one each side...is that what you mean ? Locks are via levers...no wrench required. A third screw to provide "drag" if needed.

Re multi gear rotation, no, but neither does the Deckel version.

According to brochure, the Deckel table (shown above on FP2) only swivels 30 degress left/right...whereas the Hermle swivels 45 degrees each way. Deckel did make a larger version of this table however, for the F3, that swivels 45 degrees each way.

FWIW, the Hermle rotary top is slightly smaller than the Deckle 2037 top... about 14" compared to 15" diameter on the Deckel.

 

[Milacron]

I like the feed switches (at least i think they are) for the axis...
And does the vertical head have a mechanical quill feed? Looks like it might.

Feed joysticks....one for X/Y and another for Z. You pull one a little for feed in direction desired...pull it more for rapid. Can be intermittent or continuious depending on position of another knob. Vertical head has no power quill feed but does have fine feed and straight rack/pinion feed...very smooth action. Similar to Aciera F4/F5 in that regard.

Draw bars are different from Deckel....no need to remove "hat" on vertical head and horizontal is tightened/loosened on side of ram...both via special tool

 

[bsg]

Milacron,
I think you should keep the Hermle table and sell me the Deckel table!
Kevin.

 

[AlfaGTA]

Draw bars are different from Deckel....no need to remove "hat" on vertical head and horizontal is tightened/loosened on side of ram...both via special tool

Looked at an MH800 years back that had the horizontal drawbar accessed via drive that came out the side of the ram...had a knurled ring around the drive as i recall that you turned to engage the drive into the end of the spindle...then you used a square wrench to tighten or loosen the drawbar.....Sort of cute as it was easily gotten to, did not need to reach to the end of the ram to remove/install tools.

Cheers Ross

 

[AlfaGTA]

Re indicators to recover tram, no...but neither does the Deckel "universally adjustable circular table" (stock 2037)...which is what I'm comparing it to.

Re clamp...has 2 rotational clamps, one each side...is that what you

So if no indicators on the table what is the round object on the side of the table support frame shown in your photo..Just above the hand crank that appears to control the side to side tilt? Looks sort of like an indicator form here...
Cheers Ross

 

[Chris999]

This is a really sweet machine Don. The almost 17" "Y" travel is impressive.

The 801 manual so nicely provided (thanks Tien!) shows a hydraulic system with hydraulic drawbars and hydraulic locks for the axis travels. Is that the case here?

Very capable machine for its size indeed.

Can you show us a pic with the vertical head off to the side?

Chris

 

[Milacron]

So if no indicators on the table what is the round object on the side of the table support frame shown in your photo..Just above the hand crank that appears to control the side to side tilt? Looks sort of like an indicator form here...

Actually that photo is not a photo of my machine ! (when I started this thread I hadn't taken a picture...still haven't..so plopped that up so you'd know what I have) Mine has the identical table except mine has no indicator. I'll take a look tomorrow to see if it has a hole to accept one

Other differences in mine and that photo...

1. My table is same green color as machine
2. Mine has Heidenhain ND550, 3 axis DRO
3. Mine does not have original motors.... previously owned by Siemens USA, for some reason they removed original 550 volt Euro motors and replaced with USA 220 volt spindle motor (Leeson C frame) and USA made DC motor for drive.
4. The Y and Z DRO scales on mine are on the left side, like Deckel. Which is kinda nice, as it preserves the original look of the analog scales on the right side. On the pictured one, the Y DRO scale is actually covering the original Y analog scale...can't even see it.

 

[Milacron]

The 801 manual so nicely provided (thanks Tien!) shows a hydraulic system with hydraulic drawbars and hydraulic locks for the axis travels. Is that the case here?

Nope, manual drawbar and manual axis locks on this one.