High pressure air motors

[Cole2534]

Have any of your guys ever worked with high pressure air motors? I have a kooky idea that needs an air motor that will tolerate a case pressure of at least 250psi, preferably more like 1000, and develop about 10hp. I realize this is welllll beyond most shop air systems, but I've seen these before in use with other compressed gases so I know they exist... I just don't remember who made them.

For the sake of conversation, efficiency isn't part of the equation.

 

[Erich]

Ingersoll Rand?

 

[Philabuster]

Why 1,000 PSI? What output speed and torque do you need? Lots of pneumatic motors already exist on the market. Air motors are very inefficient compared to almost anything else.

Link to sizing a pneumatic motor:

Air Motor Selection and Sizing

Air motors harness the safe, reliable power of compressed air to generate torque and rotational motion. Several different designs are available to serve a wide variety of applications...

www.powermotiontech.com

 

[Cole2534]

Why 1,000 PSI? What output speed and torque do you need? Lots of pneumatic motors already exist on the market. Air motors are very inefficient compared to almost anything else.

Link to sizing a pneumatic motor:

Air Motor Selection and Sizing

Air motors harness the safe, reliable power of compressed air to generate torque and rotational motion. Several different designs are available to serve a wide variety of applications...

www.powermotiontech.com

1,000psi is a common working pressure in this app, it'd be good if I didn't need pressure protection. Also need the downstream side good to 250psi. I'm using the differential pressure across a compressed gas system to drive the thing, inefficiency of the motor is inconsequential to the system's energy.

I can back solve for exact details, but I'd like it somewhere close to a 3hp 3600rpm motor.

IR lists all their motors at 90psi for performance data, and I can make 90psi differential work, I just need the case to be able to hold at least 250psi.

 

[Garwood]

The ship's power plant I worked in used air starters on 16v149 Detroits fed from a bank of 5000 psi cylinders. It's been 20 years, but I want to say the starting air was reduced to 250 psi.

 

[neanderthal mach]

I've also run Detroits with air starters. On those they would start with 120 psi. So there may be some variation depending on what the end user wants.

 

[Ralph_P]

All air starters should have to announce "Warning, LOUD noise that will make you jump out of your skin."

 

[Cole2534]

I've also run Detroits with air starters. On those they would start with 120 psi. So there may be some variation depending on what the end user wants.

We start all of our big engines on air, the Cats use basic 150PSI. Maybe I need to look at what the bigger engines use.

 

[EmGo]

All air starters should have to announce "Warning, LOUD noise that will make you jump out of your skin."

That's half the fun, if you're the one pushing the button

 

[Bill D]

How does an air starter work. Is it like a electric motor or does it pipe air into the cylinders to crank the engine. I understand the car engines that shut down at stop lights seldom use the starting motor. Once the engine is hot, to restart they just fire the ignition in the cylinders that have a load of compressed fuel and the piston is headed down. If that fails they turn on the electric starter motor. Older cars had starter motors that ran full time as a generator. Some Chrysler products reversed polarity to the starter motor every start to theoretically eliminate/reverse brush and commutator arcing wear.
Bill D

 

[Cole2534]

How does an air starter work. Is it like a electric motor or does it pipe air into the cylinders to crank the engine.

On the bigger engines I've been around (Cat 35xx/36xx in NG Compressor service) an air starter is used directly in place of an electric starter. We do this because we have an unlimited supply of natural gas to spin them up and don't have to worry about batteries.

 

[neanderthal mach]

When I started mining in 1980, the V 12 haul truck engines were already 10 yrs old. Electric starter motor technology got better, and at least in mining and with larger diesel engines, those air starters are seldom seen now. The hydraulic shovel I was operating about 8 yrs ago had a pair of V16 Cummins with the usual 24V electric starters. I suspect there's an engine size cut off point where those air starters are still the standard and most economical starting method. Only a rough guess, but for what the OP wants for developed HP and operating on higher than usual shop air pressures. If anyone's using anything like it, probably the oil refining industry would be his best bet. But finding something used in or around his Oklahoma / Texas area might not be all that tough.

 

[Cole2534]

When I started mining in 1980, the V 12 haul truck engines were already 10 yrs old. Electric starter motor technology got better, and at least in mining and with larger diesel engines, those air starters are seldom seen now. The hydraulic shovel I was operating about 8 yrs ago had a pair of V16 Cummins with the usual 24V electric starters. I suspect there's an engine size cut off point where those air starters are still the standard and most economical starting method. Only a rough guess, but for what the OP wants for developed HP and operating on higher than usual shop air pressures. If anyone's using anything like it, probably the oil refining industry would be his best bet. But finding something used in or around his Oklahoma / Texas area might not be all that tough.

Not oil, but natural gas in this instance.

 

[EmGo]

How does an air starter work. Is it like a electric motor or does it pipe air into the cylinders to crank the engine.

They have both kinds. Usually the air-into-cylinders is for the big big engines. Also there's spring starters that you have to wind up first. Sometimes the air and spring starters are for environments where you can't have sparks. Other times, maybe you already have a ton of compressed air and may as well use that.

 

[Robert R]

Turboexpanders are specifically made for your application. These four companies make units as small as 3KW coupled to high speed generators or compressors.

Recover Energy using Sapphire Technologies’ FreeSpin® In-line Turboexpander (FIT) generator powered by advanced magnetic technology

Sapphire Technologies’ FreeSpin® In-line Turboexpander helps capture energy lost in the pressure reduction process. The turboexpander generator recovers energy at the various stages of gas processing and distribution and allows for the generation of electricity with low carbon footprint. High...

www.sapphiretechnologies.com

Turboexpanders | Rotoflow

As one of the only OEMs both manufacturing and operating turbomachinery, Rotoflow brings a unique expertise to the design, manufacture, and repair of turboexpanders and expander spare parts used in hydrocarbon, LNG, petrochemical and industrial gas applications around the world. We are ISO 9001...

www.rotoflow.com

Turboexpanders

Configurations include expander-compressors with active magnetic bearings (AMB) or oil bearings, expander-dyno (oil brake), generator and specialized designs.

www.chartindustries.com

Turboexpanders

Turboexpanders R&D Dynamics Corporation

rddynamics.com

Should you become more ambitious here are a few examples ranging up to 20 MW :

Turboexpander Generators | Baker Hughes

Turboexpander generators for high power levels and pressure ratios with lower maintenance requirements in oil and gas and energy recovery applications

www.bakerhughes.com

Turboexpanders - Simms Machinery International

simmsusa.com

 

[Cole2534]

Turboexpanders are specifically made for your application. These four companies make units as small as 3KW coupled to high speed generators or compressors.

Recover Energy using Sapphire Technologies’ FreeSpin® In-line Turboexpander (FIT) generator powered by advanced magnetic technology

Sapphire Technologies’ FreeSpin® In-line Turboexpander helps capture energy lost in the pressure reduction process. The turboexpander generator recovers energy at the various stages of gas processing and distribution and allows for the generation of electricity with low carbon footprint. High...

www.sapphiretechnologies.com

Turboexpanders | Rotoflow

As one of the only OEMs both manufacturing and operating turbomachinery, Rotoflow brings a unique expertise to the design, manufacture, and repair of turboexpanders and expander spare parts used in hydrocarbon, LNG, petrochemical and industrial gas applications around the world. We are ISO 9001...

www.rotoflow.com

Turboexpanders

Configurations include expander-compressors with active magnetic bearings (AMB) or oil bearings, expander-dyno (oil brake), generator and specialized designs.

www.chartindustries.com

Turboexpanders

Turboexpanders R&D Dynamics Corporation

rddynamics.com

Should you become more ambitious here are a few examples ranging up to 20 MW :

Turboexpander Generators | Baker Hughes

Turboexpander generators for high power levels and pressure ratios with lower maintenance requirements in oil and gas and energy recovery applications

www.bakerhughes.com

Turboexpanders - Simms Machinery International

simmsusa.com

Very aware of expander options, we use them frequently. Thank you!

 

[David_Williams]

Have any of your guys ever worked with high pressure air motors? I have a kooky idea that needs an air motor that will tolerate a case pressure of at least 250psi, preferably more like 1000, and develop about 10hp. I realize this is welllll beyond most shop air systems, but I've seen these before in use with other compressed gases so I know they exist... I just don't remember who made them.

For the sake of conversation, efficiency isn't part of the equation.

Absolutely, high-pressure air motors are fascinating pieces of machinery. Your idea sounds intriguing! I've come across air motors designed for elevated pressures, and they can indeed handle the range you're saying. Brands often manufacture robust air motors suitable for applications with pressures exceeding 250psi and even reaching 1000psi. It might be worth checking their product lines or reaching out to their technical support for any particular recommendations. Feel free to ask here buddy.

 

[john.k]

I would think axial piston hydraulic motors would work with those kind of pressures ,but need positive lubrication......not a lot ,but enough......you may have to install piston rings .....With a pressure drop of 250psi,then a very large motor would be needed to develop 30hp.