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Hiring new workers and pay scale of current workers, what options are there?

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
It can be weird.
Had GMI students that had a higher pay. Part of this was to pay for school and the same extra money for tuition offered to all on the floor if they wanted to go pursue a degree.
Over a of paycheck as it comes in I will pay for your school if you can maintain a decent GPA. I want all that haved worked for me to climb higher.
One GMI student decides to drop out. What to do? Dropped his hourly pay three plus dollars per hour.
Bob

What is GMI? I am not so good with acronyms.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
It can be weird.
Had GMI students that had a higher pay. Part of this was to pay for school and the same extra money for tuition offered to all on the floor if they wanted to go pursue a degree.
Over a of paycheck as it comes in I will pay for your school if you can maintain a decent GPA. I want all that haved worked for me to climb higher.
One GMI student decides to drop out. What to do? Dropped his hourly pay three plus dollars per hour.
Bob


... and I have issues with hand-outs to those that go on to skewl.
Why would you give them free $ so's to pay for skewl so that they can then go make more $ than the scumbag that didn't go to higher skewling?

Why not give me those same extra $ so that I can pay for equipment for a commercial venture - so that I can make more $ than the scumbag that doesn't seem to have the (nerve)*, drive, etc to bother with such things?


* can't use nerve since it doesn't take any nerve to pay for equipment with someone else's money.

I hate grants, and that's a grant.


-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

EndlessWaltz

Cast Iron
Joined
Jun 18, 2016
Location
Midwest
We had a deadbeat guy who got fired, or quit.. then a few years after making the rounds came back and was a highly talented guy.

Shop owners often know other shop owners..and when a guy comes knocking the last job place might be called.
Mostly/often shop owners are honest with each other and give information.

I know this action is/may be against the law but that is life.

Not only is it illegal, it is incredibly stupid. I have witnessed a sales guy try to black list a guy from a shop 2hrs away simply because he was smart enough not to work for his new boss who was only made his new boss based on nepotism. He got the fuck out while he was in his early 20s. Do you blame the guy!? Union gray hairs will do everything in their power to prevent someone from leaving and enjoying life. It today's environment I would give anyone the chance to sit down in front of me and I will be the judge of their character and talent.
 

Codyyy

Plastic
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
IMO you’re looking at turnover resulting in the company paying more money to new hires that will produce less than your current employees. Basically exactly what you mentioned. In the long run your average starting wage will go up and the average employee longevity will go down. If the company can spend money with those risks it should also shuffle the management deck as well.

The other option is to simply stand your ground and wait for the economy to change, or offer an incentive program to the current employees for referral bonuses and new hire sign-on bonuses (probationary period).
 

thewynner98

Aluminum
Joined
Jul 20, 2021
IMO you’re looking at turnover resulting in the company paying more money to new hires that will produce less than your current employees. Basically exactly what you mentioned. In the long run your average starting wage will go up and the average employee longevity will go down. If the company can spend money with those risks it should also shuffle the management deck as well.

The other option is to simply stand your ground and wait for the economy to change, or offer an incentive program to the current employees for referral bonuses and new hire sign-on bonuses (probationary period).
I like the new hire bonus idea. Pay your new guys less than your old but give em incentive to stick around

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk
 

Codyyy

Plastic
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
I like the new hire bonus idea. Pay your new guys less than your old but give em incentive to stick around

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk

I’ve been involved in this in a company I worked for, and it actually worked decently IMO.
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
I like the new hire bonus idea. Pay your new guys less than your old but give em incentive to stick around

Sent from my LM-V600 using Tapatalk


How does that not equate with your previous issue?

Seems to me that the old guys should git a "stay your assets here" bonus at the same time?

I'm bitchin' about the current status, but I don't have a better answer either.
So I'll bitch quietly.


---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

Codyyy

Plastic
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
How does that not equate with your previous issue?

Seems to me that the old guys should git a "stay your assets here" bonus at the same time?

I'm bitchin' about the current status, but I don't have a better answer either.
So I'll bitch quietly.


---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

That’s kinda what I was aiming for. Current employees get a bonus for referring new hires (that work satisfactorily for a probational period) and new hires get a bonus upon completion of the probational period.
 

PDW

Diamond
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Location
Australia (Hobart)
... and I have issues with hand-outs to those that go on to skewl.
Why would you give them free $ so's to pay for skewl so that they can then go make more $ than the scumbag that didn't go to higher skewling?

Why not give me those same extra $ so that I can pay for equipment for a commercial venture - so that I can make more $ than the scumbag that doesn't seem to have the (nerve)*, drive, etc to bother with such things?


* can't use nerve since it doesn't take any nerve to pay for equipment with someone else's money.

I hate grants, and that's a grant.


-------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

First, it's not a grant. Unless you've your own definition of grant that's not in the dictionary anyway.

Second, what you wrote comes across as someone who wants somebody else to take on the training/education of new people and you not wanting to kick in anything towards that cost.

May I suggest that your attitude is what's got you all to where you are today?

Yeah yeah I know - you pay taxes so it's not your responsibility. Good luck with that.

I always liked the system where people got reimbursed AFTER they finished the year/semester with a decent grade. Drop out or fail, you get nothing.

PDW
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
OK, so then - can we call it welfare? A hand-out? What?
It's something that they received that they did not earn (nor expected to pay back) to pay for something that they WILL (should anyhow) get paid kindly later for having done.
Seems like double dipping to me.

Maybe give the would-be loser an extra sum at the end of the summer, and who knows, maybe they will doo sumpthing grand with it that will better their life too?


----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
The whole job situation seems odd nowadays. like the new hire bonus give you $1000, if you join and stay 6 months.

Hey boss, I'm more valuable than some new guy so will you give me a $1.000 bonus if I don't quit.

My buddy hired a young man at a decent wage to train him to be a marine mechanic, a top pay talent after a few years.
The guy lasted a month and was doing great. Then he said I'm going to quit because adding up all my benefits I make almost as much with not working.

My son went to a high-class mechanic school UTI, and now makes way over $100k a year.
Your New Career Path Starts at Universal Technical Institute
 

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
The whole job situation seems odd nowadays. like the new hire bonus give you $1000, if you join and stay 6 months.

Hey boss, I'm more valuable than some new guy so will you give me a $1.000 bonus if I don't quit.

My buddy hired a young man at a decent wage to train him to be a marine mechanic, a top pay talent after a few years.
The guy lasted a month and was doing great. Then he said I'm going to quit because adding up all my benefits I make almost as much with not working.

My son went to a high-class mechanic school UTI, and now makes way over $100k a year.
Your New Career Path Starts at Universal Technical Institute

And the difference is the first young man had risked nothing.
 

Mebfab

Diamond
Joined
Jun 7, 2003
Location
Mebane North Carolina USA
My buddy hired a young man at a decent wage to train him to be a marine mechanic, a top pay talent after a few years.
The guy lasted a month and was doing great. Then he said I'm going to quit because adding up all my benefits I make almost as much with not working.


Your New Career Path Starts at Universal Technical Institute

I doubt the wage was decent then. I think the benefits to lay out if you are referring to public assistance is around.... $12 an hour. Unemployment around here isnt even that much.

I am continually surprised at how little shops will pay employees. Local shop is $100 an hour. Pay starts at $13. Doesnt go up much or fast. Place is a dump. Owner wont put a nickel back into it. Walmart and target pay better. Mcdonalds is paying $14 with tuition reimbursement and a free meal.
 

PDW

Diamond
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Location
Australia (Hobart)
OK, so then - can we call it welfare? A hand-out? What?
It's something that they received that they did not earn (nor expected to pay back) to pay for something that they WILL (should anyhow) get paid kindly later for having done.
Seems like double dipping to me.

Seems like intelligent self-interest to me but we'll have to differ.

I went to university with lots of people who were being sponsored by their employers, the deal was they had to work for the firm for one year for each year post-graduation. Meanwhile they got paid a stipend and worked during the vacations.

What the people generally are putting in is a considerable number of personal time hours.

Anyway you don't want to pay towards training but would want trained workers. Then you (collectively) mostly want to pay them shit wages. That attitude seems pretty common in the USA.

Seems to be working out exceptionally well for you. I mean, you're tripping over huge numbers of skilled people desperate to work for $15/hour, right?

PDW
 

jccaclimber

Hot Rolled
Joined
Nov 22, 2015
Location
San Francisco
OK, so then - can we call it welfare? A hand-out? What?
It's something that they received that they did not earn (nor expected to pay back) to pay for something that they WILL (should anyhow) get paid kindly later for having done.
Seems like double dipping to me.

Maybe give the would-be loser an extra sum at the end of the summer, and who knows, maybe they will doo sumpthing grand with it that will better their life too?


----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

I call it a work benefit just like PTO and company provided lunch (the food, not the time). Some people utilize it, others don’t. If an employer, municipality, etc. doesn’t feel it helps them attract the right labor they are welcome to not offer it. Personally I only work at places that offer paid PTO, but other people have different wants and capabilities.

At least with something like tuition reimbursement the employer gets a more skilled employee whereas they might get nothing from PTO.

One of the factories I worked in had several engineers and supervisors who had gotten their education that way. It was helpful to the employer because they got skilled employees who had come up through the line and understood problems on the floor. Also, honestly, at a lower average employee cost (including the tuition) than they were able to just hire off the street. It was helpful to the employees because it helped them gain skills they may otherwise have not been able to afford.
 
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William Payne

Aluminum
Joined
May 29, 2016
I'm off work due to an injury right now so I am not exactly feeling like the greatest employee, but lets talk about machine shop wages for a second based on my own observations.

Lets ignore skill set completely. If you are paying less per hour than a job like Walmart or McDonald's you have a problem, machining and manufacturing seems to be the only trade right now where you can be a skilled worker and your pay doesn't reflect it.

I'm not talking about myself I am talking based on people I have worked with.

Many shop owners say they can't afford to pay more and that their costs keep going up. The problem with that is every other trade passes on those costs to their customers.

Plumbers, builders, electricians, all the construction trades pass on their costs to their customers, and those people get paid really good wages.

The thing is though, when you need a plumber or an electrician you can't outsource that to china or other such places.

Also I see a number of shops who for their own reasons have not kept up with changes in the industry to where they outright cannot compete with modern shops and they drop their prices way too much to get the work and can only go one direction which is down.

I am sorry but if you want skilled staff you either have to train them yourself from scratch, or you have to pay more than what they can get at lower skilled jobs elsewhere. People complain about new people not knowing how to do anything when they take on trainees. Of course they don't you are supposed to TRAIN them.

I know a lot of shops are of the mindset where they want workers already trained so that the cost of training is taken by other shops but the problem is people are not training. The days of big high dollar corporations taking on apprentices and pumping out already skilled workers is gone those shops closed.

IF you outright cannot as a business afford to pay more in wages than you need to work your business towards higher productivity with less staff input via automation or modernisation of production practices or the financial viability of your business needs to be looked at.

Also if your business is struggling financially but you are living like a king that is a whole other problem, I only bring that up as I have met those people, they will fight to not spend a dime on their business but are living large outside of it.
 

winger

Stainless
Joined
Dec 28, 2005
Location
portage county, wisconsin
Since I went through an apprenticeship in central Wisconsin, 2 machine apprenticeship programs were shut down due to lack of support by industry.

The good news here is, a new school is being built here for trade apprenticeships.

This job market really amazes me, When I got out of the usaf in 1977, I tried college just because there were very few other than minimum wage and interest rates were double digits. Now I see a few weekend jobs as good as full week jobs.

The plant I retired from last year has trouble getting decent applicants or ones that would stay. A couple walked off the job during shift, a few fired for fighting, drunk on the job. Used to be a premiere place to work and didn't have to advertise.

Dave
 








 
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