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Hiring outside the family..............

Joined
May 29, 2010
Location
Denmark
As an employer, do you pay based on experience, knowledge or on what they can produce in YOUR business.
The term machinist is tossed around so often that it has become almost meaningless...

In Europe a machinist is almost always someone who has had basic training and education at a technical school or college. During that period they are apprentices.

Could be I'm wrong but I think too many companies in the USA only train employees in what is useful or necessary to them.
That's the best way to get cheap Labour.
 

m98custom1212

Stainless
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Location
Toledo, Ohio
Could be I'm wrong but I think too many companies in the USA only train employees in what is useful or necessary to them.
That's the best way to get cheap Labour.

Yea, pretty much some of get the basics from 3rd party school but the that want to learn more, they learn more or leave to learn more usually getting more money
 

SIM

Titanium
Joined
Feb 19, 2004
Location
Staten Island NewYork USA
View attachment 164457

Good point, but maybe not realistic. You are right however, machinist has become a catch-all term that applies to button pushers all the way through highly skilled moldmakers and toolmakers, cnc programmers, set-up guys, etc.

If someone were to offer me a position with the stipulation that they only needed me to do set-up (for example) what do you think is going to happen when they start expecting me to program, just because I know how (and am good at per chance)? I hear this all too often, "Well I don't care if you know how to program 5 axis, mig weld, setup cnc mills & lathes, build and troubleshoot stamping/forming dies, design and build fixturing, lead a complicated 1 year long job through a shop, etc. I am only offering xx dollars for you to program my 3 axis mill." Fair enough, I would not probably take the job, or would take it in a pinch knowing I was never going to go anywhere, and would be 'looking' the whole time... but that is just me.

"I am only offering xx dollars for you to program my 3 axis mill." Fair enough, I would not probably take the job, or would take it in a pinch knowing I was never going to go anywhere, and would be 'looking' the whole time... but that is just me"



If a person is overqualified for a position...does an employer pay them more then the position pays?


If so, how much more?
Some jobs the 5 axis wiz guy may be busting his hump, machines is running 150% and your barely breaking even...not a great business model.

Do you stop taking in your normal production work for something more challenging that brings in a better buck? Sure, that does sound great...except that 5 axis wiz guy just decided to take a better job as he was busting his hump working for you with production work. Now you lost the production work for higher paying challenging work that you can not do as 5 axis wiz left.

In any case, machinist, welder...lousy almost meaningless titles.
 

wrustle

Titanium
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Location
Massachusetts
As an employer, do you pay based on experience, knowledge or on what they can produce in YOUR business.

VERY good point! ;)


Below is EXACTLY how my want ad was placed (sick days are not listed-Mass state law=5 days). The salary was discussed and accepted during the interview process. The employee handbook outlining conduct code, full listing of benefits, and review schedule was issued, accepted and signed. Employee has been working exactly as he stated he could, and by my estimation, a great fit for our shop. I feel this is a win-win for sure.



CNC Machinist Position Available
Family run, clean, fully climate controlled shop in West Brookfield, Mass. in need of an experienced CNC Machinist.
Candidate must have 2 years minimum experience running vertical machining centers. Must be able to perform own set ups and program edits.
Haas control experience a plus! Candidates with CNC Lathe experience also a plus. Must be self sufficient, motivated with a positive attitude and able to work in a small to medium range production environment.
We service the biotech, aerospace, and military industries.


Clean Modern Equipment
Competitive Wages based on experience
Overtime when available
Paid Medical
8 Paid Holidays
2 Weeks Paid Vacation after 1 year
Strong math skills required.
No trainees.
No walk in requests for applications accepted.
Qualified applicants should submit their resume to:

*******THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK---POSITION HAS BEEN FILLED**********

***Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.***
***Do NOT contact us with unsolicited services or offers***


Go ahead gentlemen................have fun..........and by the way..............when do we get to the part where this is Obama's/Bush's fault.

I just know it's coming...........
:popcorn:
 

Mike1974

Diamond
Joined
Nov 5, 2014
Location
Tampa area
"I am only offering xx dollars for you to program my 3 axis mill." Fair enough, I would not probably take the job, or would take it in a pinch knowing I was never going to go anywhere, and would be 'looking' the whole time... but that is just me"



If a person is overqualified for a position...does an employer pay them more then the position pays?


If so, how much more?
Some jobs the 5 axis wiz guy may be busting his hump, machines is running 150% and your barely breaking even...not a great business model.

Do you stop taking in your normal production work for something more challenging that brings in a better buck? Sure, that does sound great...except that 5 axis wiz guy just decided to take a better job as he was busting his hump working for you with production work. Now you lost the production work for higher paying challenging work that you can not do as 5 axis wiz left.

In any case, machinist, welder...lousy almost meaningless titles.

I was not saying you are obligated to pay more. If the job truly is only worth xx dollars to you, because you KNOW the position only requires xxxx skillset, by all means offer your pay according to that. My point was (in my experience) employers often downplay the skills they don't "need" for said position as a bargaining tool to offer lower wages than your skillset. Come to find out, they are super excited you know all of that extra stuff because they think "maybe this guy can do the job I am hiring for and do this extra thing..."

For example, I was just thinking about this on my way to work this morning. Many years ago the supervisor quit at the job shop I worked at. I "applied" for the position thinking that was my chance to move up the ladder. I asked for $1 raise, I think i was only making like $16 or something back then. Anywho, the owner says "well the supervisor position isn't really that much more work." HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHHA!!! :icon_bs:
I took the job (I was young and hopeful back then ;)), and wow was I in for an eye opening. I knew it was a 'working foreman' type position, but I didn't know to what scale let me tell you! I was expected to do my present job which was lead die maker, and do all the supervisory things too, all in the same 8 hour shift. Heres the catch, I wasn't expected to really spend any extra time on the supervising part? :confused: We had a code for misc work we put on our time sheets. If I had an hour of that time each day for like 3 or 4 days in a row I was questioned on what I was doing. So ya, maybe I am a little jaded still because of that experience when I was younger. That is why i am always leary of the whole "well I don't need your skills in that, I just need this so here is the pay". BULLSHIT in most cases, but that is just my two cents.
 

then1004610053

Plastic
Joined
Jan 10, 2016
congrats on stepping out and hire someone who has the ability to take your family shop to the next level. Hope everything goes smooth for you.
 
Joined
May 29, 2010
Location
Denmark
Like so many other threads this has become a little strange.

If an employer is happy with an employee (what is achieved for the amount paid) and the employee is happy with doing what is expected of him/her and with the pay too then it's a win/win situation.

On a completely different note are written contracts usual or unusual for employees in the USA?
 

Jashley73

Titanium
Joined
Jan 24, 2013
Location
Louisville, KY
I think I'm speaking for a few more than just myself, but I'm not completely satisfied with your answer Wrustle... (I also understand that you're at zero-obligation to give us any answer at all too...)

So often on these forums, we see gripes about, "There's no good machinist's left!" Or, "I can't find a good machinist to save my life/business!"

Well, Wrustle, you've gone and found a good machinist, who you're more than pleased with... And all of us are wanting to know, How did you do it...? :toetap:

We're not asking for a dollar amount. We're asking - did you offer to pay this guy above market value to get him on board, or did he accept the job at the pay that you offered? And if he did accept what you were offering, was it "fair" or above-average for your area? Maybe I'm jaded by reading the job ads, but when I read "competitive pay based on experience," in a job-add, it usually means crappy-to-mediocre pay for the field, and no-better pay than any other open jobs out there...

Again, I realize you're under no obligation to answer, but that's what we're wondering... Did you really just get "lucky" with finding this guy, or did the pay you offered increase your chances of luck? Either way, congradulations on the good hire - I hope it's a long-lasting relationship, and good for everyone there.
 
Joined
May 29, 2010
Location
Denmark
Since you mentioned it in Line 1.......perhaps you should start your own thread regarding Line 2. ;)

It did cross my mind :) Still mulling it over though. If it isn't common though in the US there isn't much point on starting it. If those that have a contract (and I'm talking about machinist level) then I would start a thread to find out how comprehensive they are.

Employment contract | Workindenmark
 
Joined
May 29, 2010
Location
Denmark
We're not asking for a dollar amount. We're asking - did you offer to pay this guy above market value to get him on board, or did he accept the job at the pay that you offered? And if he did accept what you were offering, was it "fair" or above-average for your area?

Of course wage isn't insignificant but does it have to be regarded as the most important?
 

Ox

Diamond
Joined
Aug 27, 2002
Location
West Unity, Ohio
Well - if $ wasn't a major concern, I wouldn't be here every day.
Heck - I'd still be turnin' dirt.


"Wage not #1 concern" is for the women of the family. We've gotta make rent.


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox
 
Joined
May 29, 2010
Location
Denmark
Well - if $ wasn't a major concern, I wouldn't be here every day.
Heck - I'd still be turnin' dirt.

"Wage not #1 concern" is for the women of the family. We've gotta make rent.


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Huh? Did I just read that you believe a woman's place is in the kitchen?

Of course a livable wage is important but is having as much money as possible the most important thing to some?
 
Joined
May 29, 2010
Location
Denmark
We're not asking Wrus's new guy if wage was the most important thing for him. We're asking Wrus is he had to use a bigger carrot than average to draw this guy to his shop...

I've read several posts that only ask about money. Is it really so impossible to find good folk without "carrots"?
 

wrustle

Titanium
Joined
Jun 8, 2006
Location
Massachusetts
We're not asking Wrus's new guy if wage was the most important thing for him. We're asking Wrus is he had to use a bigger carrot than average to draw this guy to his shop...

He read the ad (as described earlier in this thread).
He sent me a resume.
He responded to my request to come in.
He came in for an interview.
He liked the shop equipment.
He liked the shop environment.
He liked the benefit package offered.
He liked my monetary offer.
He read, agreed to, and signed the employee handbook.
He's happy, I'm happy.

The End...........despite the overwhelming urge to type.............

"To be continued..............." :D
 
Joined
May 29, 2010
Location
Denmark
He read the ad (as described earlier in this thread).
He sent me a resume.
He responded to my request to come in.
He came in for an interview.
He liked the shop equipment.
He liked the shop environment.
He liked the benefit package offered.
He liked my monetary offer.
He read, agreed to, and signed the employee handbook.
He's happy, I'm happy.

The End...........despite the overwhelming urge to type.............

"To be continued..............." :D

Hmmmm, what's not to like :) but you don't sound "typical". :cheers:
 

6061Mike

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 26, 2014
Location
SC, USA
He read the ad (as described earlier in this thread).
He sent me a resume.
He responded to my request to come in.
He came in for an interview.
He liked the shop equipment.
He liked the shop environment.
He liked the benefit package offered.
He liked my monetary offer.
He read, agreed to, and signed the employee handbook.
He's happy, I'm happy.

The End...........despite the overwhelming urge to type.............

"To be continued..............." :D

So we are still left wondering, did wrustle get lucky or he offered top wages?? Oh well I guess... :(

To be fair, he does have a shop picture posted here with all employees. If he says he paid above average for the new guy, everyone else gets mad. If he says he paid average, everyone is mad. If he says he paid below average, the new guy is mad. :popcorn:
 








 
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