Hiring outside the family..............

[smalltime]

Depending on what you are doing, sometimes its easier and quicker to train someone without experience than it is to un-train and then re-train someone
with experience.

Bob,
Run away.....NOW.

This guy will troll you into the funny farm.

 

[wrustle]

Just to put an end to the whole "does the pay commensurate with experience" inquiry............

What I pay my employees is nobodies business but mine and theirs.

 

[ewlsey]

If you have to "untrain" someone with experience then what was that experience worth?

I could not have said it better myself.

Working as a mechanic, this was always the case. We would hire some dealer mechanic who would gripe about the pay and benefits. Then we would find out that he can't change brakes or do any engine or electrical work because all he has done for the last 10 years is work on transmissions. In our shop, every guy was expected to do every job. So now we had a guy with 10 years "experience" who was no better than a rookie at any job other than the niche job he is used to doing.

 

[david n]

Bob,
Run away.....NOW.

This guy will troll you into the funny farm.

What happens every time we read one of Gordon's posts.................................WTH?

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

Bob,
Run away.....NOW.

This guy will troll you into the funny farm.

Wouldn't that be me trespassing Farmer smalltime?

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

What happens every time we read one of Gordon's posts.................................WTH?

You learn something you didn't know?

 

[6061Mike]

Just to put an end to the whole "does the pay commensurate with experience" inquiry............

What I pay my employees is nobodies business but mine and theirs.

Perfectly understood, but disappointing to hear... I could care less to the actual dollar amount. I was really hoping to hear something like "I offered him a buck more than what he was making, which is really - [average/outstanding/low/high end/etc for this area], and boy did I make the right decision!

I think too often (from owners perspective) we hear how so and so was overrated/overpaid, they couldn't do what they said, poor attitude, etc, etc.

 

[tdmidget]

Just to put an end to the whole "does the pay commensurate with experience" inquiry............

What I pay my employees is nobodies business but mine and theirs.

Translation: either:
"I'm ashamed to pay so little, and he's embarrassed to work for that,"
OR
"I finally had to pay a decent wage, and I can't reveal it, or everyone else would quit".

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

Translation: either:
"I'm ashamed to pay so little, and he's embarrassed to work for that,"
OR
"I finally had to pay a decent wage, and I can't reveal it, or everyone else would quit".

Or yet another option: "None of you bloody business"
How much do you make?

 

[Mcgyver]

I don't think anyone here cares what he pays. The question wasn't for the dollars, it was comparative - ie are you paying him in keeping with his experience. ie did you get lucky, or did you attract talent by deciding to pay for it.

I wouldn't give specific employee rates either. It doesn't matter an iota if you guys know, but once typed its here forever and employees could be tuning in.

 

[andrewmawson]

The important thing is how is he incentivised? Family are in it for both the pay rate and the long term future value of the business. Outside employees don't have that future value to look forward to.

Just 'good wages' actually soon wear off as incentives, where as things like profit sharing and a feeling of being valued and appreciated tend to last longer.

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

The important thing is how is he incentivised? Family are in it for both the pay rate and the long term future value of the business. Outside employees don't have that future value to look forward to.

Just 'good wages' actually soon wear off as incentives, where as things like profit sharing and a feeling of being valued and appreciated tend to last longer.

In poles carried out here now and then wages don't even make the top 3 reasons for job satisfaction.

Wages here are pretty much regulated by annual negotiations between employer and employee unions. It's a system that works surprisingly well.

Job satisfaction in Europe – An international comparison | The world of labour

McDonalds & Burger King in Denmark Raise Worker's Wages to a Living Wage - YouTube

http://www.expatdenmark.dk/article.82.html

Denmark: Wage formation | Eurofound

 

[IronReb]

Tony understands it.........completely!


We don't just machine parts. All our parts are supplied complete to print.

Anodizing (clear, colored, or hard), black oxide, heat treating, silk screening, passivate, silver and gold or nickel plating and polishing. Whether it be a commercial or military application, we provide components made complete.

There are more parts that we do now that require outside services than ones that are simply machined and shipped. The hours consumed in just one week on those items alone can be significant, believe me.

We also do many assemblies, and typically have blanket orders throughout the course of the year for many of the varied products we ship as a completed unit.

Programming and quoting also take up a good amount of my time every week. As Tony mentioned, keeping three machines humming along can be a chore from the programming side. Thankfully we do a large amount of repeat production work, so there's almost always something ready to go in a machine rather than have it sit idle waiting for me.

Another big time saver in the shop is my Haas ST20 lathe. It is almost always running unattended. When doing bar work, I will go out of my way to program it to run with nearly as little operator assistance as possible. Regardless of qty, (within reason of course), it's dropping parts in the catcher, and starting on the next one before you even realize it just made another. Inevitably, someone out in the shop will shout out, "the lathe stopped", and either the next one walking by will load another bar, or I will venture out from office and do it.

I used to have it beep at M30 when the bar was finished..............but everyone, and I do mean EVERYONE.......hates the noise!! Me especially.....therefore, we wait for the blinking light!


My daughter I had to let go last May. Things slowed enough to the point where my wife and I figured we could handle things with just three of us in the shop, and besides that......my daughter was just too damn comfortable working in the shop rather than working on her pursuing the career she went to college for......sooooo......it was sort of a gentle push out the door, and get going on what you had for a goal in life instead of working in a shop.

Since that time, she has gone back to school part time working on her masters degree for teaching, and last fall she was hired by one of the school systems a few towns over as a paralegal. A win, win for her!

Best Regards,
Russ

who is the member here who makes small hand presses, Mr. Potter? KPotter?..cant remember atm.
At any rate, when he sees those cool as shit hand press looking devices you are making, he is gonna come kick your ass....

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

We don't just machine parts. All our parts are supplied complete to print.

Anodizing (clear, colored, or hard), black oxide, heat treating, silk screening, passivate, silver and gold or nickel plating and polishing. Whether it be a commercial or military application, we provide components made complete.

Best Regards,
Russ

Looking at those parts (and I certainly like what I see) then I can't help but wonder why you don't come up with something that is your own product. If you in fact do then I've misunderstood.

Except for measurement inserts then most of my products are anodized aluminium.

http://www.f-m-s.dk/Caliper accessories.pdf

 

[SND]

Just to put an end to the whole "does the pay commensurate with experience" inquiry............

What I pay my employees is nobodies business but mine and theirs.

So long as it doesn't start with a cheque that only has " to be continued " written on it, you should be ok...

 

[tdmidget]

Or yet another option: "None of you bloody business"
How much do you make?

Since you asked, Gordon, I will tell you. I make whatever the union agreement is in the area where I am working. That covers a range of $25 or so up to $42.50 plus benefits. I just finished a job in New Mexico, the lowest paying area in my local. Here ya go:
Hourly wage : $31.00
health & welfare: $6.60
pension:$4.41
vacation: $3.00
supplemental dues: $1.29
apprenticeship and training trust: $.47
other: $.33

These are are all hourly rates negotiated by my union. Each area has it's schedule of pay and benefit amounts.
Arizona is $31.18 scale
vacation $4.00
the rest are comparable.
My employers are not embarrassed to have the public know what they pay me. My co workers know that they must perform or there's a one man lay-off coming if they're lucky.
I make a pretty decent living. I work hard when I'm working, usually 7-12s.
The power generation biz does not put up with slack. 1 day at a nuke unit is about a million bucks. They expect a job to be done in the allotted time and done right. If a nuke does not run 90 days straight after an outage that is an NRC violation and does not make my employer look good. They pay for quality and get it.

 

[Gordon B. Clarke]

Since you asked, Gordon, I will tell you. I make whatever the union agreement is in the area where I am working. That covers a range of $25 or so up to $42.50 plus benefits. I just finished a job in New Mexico, the lowest paying area in my local. Here ya go:
Hourly wage : $31.00
health & welfare: $6.60
pension:$4.41
vacation: $3.00
supplemental dues: $1.29
apprenticeship and training trust: $.47
other: $.33

These are are all hourly rates negotiated by my union. Each area has it's schedule of pay and benefit amounts.
Arizona is $31.18 scale
vacation $4.00
the rest are comparable.
My employers are not embarrassed to have the public know what they pay me. My co workers know that they must perform or there's a one man lay-off coming if they're lucky.
I make a pretty decent living. I work hard when I'm working, usually 7-12s.
The power generation biz does not put up with slack. 1 day at a nuke unit is about a million bucks. They expect a job to be done in the allotted time and done right. If a nuke does not run 90 days straight after an outage that is an NRC violation and does not make my employer look good. They pay for quality and get it.

It was intended as a rhetorical question and I didn't expect an answer so "thanks"

From what you write then it does look like low wages in the USA may not be a common as I thought.

The only thing I take issue with in your post is "My employers are not embarrassed to have the public know what they pay me." because on that I agree with Wrustle - it's a personal issue. Guidelines for a group is OK.

 

[Zonko]

who is the member here who makes small hand presses, Mr. Potter? KPotter?..cant remember atm.
At any rate, when he sees those cool as shit hand press looking devices you are making, he is gonna come kick your ass....

Not really, russ's stuff sure looks nice, but it looks like it can't make 1/10th of the tonnage Kevins hydraulics can make, more like 1/20th or 1/50th.

Does remind me a bit of electronics assembly presses, you want a fast precise stroke for small things, but the forces are not even in the region called tonnage, more like "poundage" :-)

 

[SIM]

I don't think anyone here cares what he pays. The question wasn't for the dollars, it was comparative - ie are you paying him in keeping with his experience. ie did you get lucky, or did you attract talent by deciding to pay for it.

I wouldn't give specific employee rates either. It doesn't matter an iota if you guys know, but once typed its here forever and employees could be tuning in.

As an employer, do you pay based on experience, knowledge or on what they can produce in YOUR business.
The term machinist is tossed around so often that it has become almost meaningless...

 

[Mike1974]

As an employer, do you pay based on experience, knowledge or on what they can produce in YOUR business.
The term machinist is tossed around so often that it has become almost meaningless...

Good point, but maybe not realistic. You are right however, machinist has become a catch-all term that applies to button pushers all the way through highly skilled moldmakers and toolmakers, cnc programmers, set-up guys, etc.

If someone were to offer me a position with the stipulation that they only needed me to do set-up (for example) what do you think is going to happen when they start expecting me to program, just because I know how (and am good at per chance)? I hear this all too often, "Well I don't care if you know how to program 5 axis, mig weld, setup cnc mills & lathes, build and troubleshoot stamping/forming dies, design and build fixturing, lead a complicated 1 year long job through a shop, etc. I am only offering xx dollars for you to program my 3 axis mill." Fair enough, I would not probably take the job, or would take it in a pinch knowing I was never going to go anywhere, and would be 'looking' the whole time... but that is just me.