HOME GARAGE MACHINE SHOP… Add another machine or replace what I have.

[xnewmanx]

Right now I have a fairly nice little shop set up at home. Can see it here. LINK

CURRENT MACHINES:
I have a 2021 vf2ssyt with a trt160 5 axis and a 2022 doosan lynx 2100lb.

The doosan is a basic 2 axis machine. I think if I had spring for a live tool machine I’d be less eager to get another machine because a lot of the stuff I want to use the TRT for is stuff that the lathe could do.

The haas is well optioned: Probing, thru spindle coolant, air blast, multi augers, obv the 4th and 5th axis drives. Only thing I wish it has was thru tool air blast. If I were to buy a second one I think it comes out to around 120k.
HOW I USE THEM:
I use the mill a lot, the lathe a little less. What I almost never use is the TRT in the haas. The few times I have used it I like it, and there are a LOT of times when I have a use for it, but it’s such a bitch to remove my vises, crane it over, put it in, indicate it in, etc that I usually just work around it and make some weird fixture. I have three 2 station vices in the haas. Most of the parts I make can fit in a single station in a single vice, but I occasionally machine parts that are 12”x12”x12”. I might also get into making jet ski engine cases which would start from a 16x12x6 billet. I think the only way I could do this would be with a 5ax machine, though.

SPACE:
I’m tight on space but I could fit another machine with some sacrifices.


THE OPTIONS I CAN THINK OF:

I’ll use doosan for machine examples but I think their pricing is fairly in line with Mazak.

Option 1: Two VMCs. Buy a nicer, larger 3ax machine like a DN-DNM5700. Keep the TRT in the haas along with one vice for light 5 axis work. Continue doing the majority of my work in the doosan (and hopefully with a production bump because I can add another station and run harder because it is more rigid. The 5700 will cost me about 110k out of pocket optioned out how I’d like it.

Option 2: one 5ax machine. Sell the haas and get some sort of real (rigid) 5 axis machine. Probably the more expensive option but saves the most space. Either a dfv4000 or dvf5000. Around 250k or 280k respectively. I’m thinking I could get maybe 100-120k for the haas, (maybe I’m dreaming but let’s assume) that leaves me with 150-180 out of pocket. It would require a full reset on everything I currently make, which isn’t a ton of repeat stuff. Mostly one off stuff. I’m concerned though that having only a 5ax machine might actually slow me down a bit. Especially on steel parts. But maybe I’m just basing this on my wussy TRT experience. It would disrupt my shop layout the least though.

Option 3: new 3ax and delayed 5ax purchase? The real 5ax machine would potentially open me up to a whole new world of possibilities. Having the TRT at the ready though might let me dip my toe in the water. I could always replace the haas + TRT with a real 5ax down the road if I see potential with the TRT. Then I’d have a much nicer larger 3ax machine to complement it.

Do you guys who know a thing or two have any strong opinions or other options that I should consider?

Thanks!!

 

[ezduzit]

Adding a machine allows you to continue work while you get the new machine sorted and producing. And gives you a backup once the new one is fully operational.

 

[Philabuster]

Are you limited on available electrical power in your garage? That might answer your question.

 

[Houdini]

I am in similar situations, but looking at my 5th machine.
Because I notice each machine adds production and profits, I would not trade 1 machine for another YET.
I would add the 3 axis, increases your work load capability, which increases profits, then buy a real 5 axis,
but I wouldn't get rid of the VF2SS yet still, I would move to a commercial space and keep them all.
If you want to stay in the garage, small shop scenario, then yes replace the VF2SS with a 5 axis.
I like having a backup machines though, So you may want like a VF4SS with a large 5 axis trunnion, that way you can do large 3 axis stuff, and the less needed 5 axis parts both.

 

[rjwalker1973]

Right now I have a fairly nice little shop set up at home. Can see it here. LINK

CURRENT MACHINES:
I have a 2021 vf2ssyt with a trt160 5 axis and a 2022 doosan lynx 2100lb.

The doosan is a basic 2 axis machine. I think if I had spring for a live tool machine I’d be less eager to get another machine because a lot of the stuff I want to use the TRT for is stuff that the lathe could do.

The haas is well optioned: Probing, thru spindle coolant, air blast, multi augers, obv the 4th and 5th axis drives. Only thing I wish it has was thru tool air blast. If I were to buy a second one I think it comes out to around 120k.
HOW I USE THEM:
I use the mill a lot, the lathe a little less. What I almost never use is the TRT in the haas. The few times I have used it I like it, and there are a LOT of times when I have a use for it, but it’s such a bitch to remove my vises, crane it over, put it in, indicate it in, etc that I usually just work around it and make some weird fixture. I have three 2 station vices in the haas. Most of the parts I make can fit in a single station in a single vice, but I occasionally machine parts that are 12”x12”x12”. I might also get into making jet ski engine cases which would start from a 16x12x6 billet. I think the only way I could do this would be with a 5ax machine, though.

SPACE:
I’m tight on space but I could fit another machine with some sacrifices.


THE OPTIONS I CAN THINK OF:

I’ll use doosan for machine examples but I think their pricing is fairly in line with Mazak.

Option 1: Two VMCs. Buy a nicer, larger 3ax machine like a DN-DNM5700. Keep the TRT in the haas along with one vice for light 5 axis work. Continue doing the majority of my work in the doosan (and hopefully with a production bump because I can add another station and run harder because it is more rigid. The 5700 will cost me about 110k out of pocket optioned out how I’d like it.

Option 2: one 5ax machine. Sell the haas and get some sort of real (rigid) 5 axis machine. Probably the more expensive option but saves the most space. Either a dfv4000 or dvf5000. Around 250k or 280k respectively. I’m thinking I could get maybe 100-120k for the haas, (maybe I’m dreaming but let’s assume) that leaves me with 150-180 out of pocket. It would require a full reset on everything I currently make, which isn’t a ton of repeat stuff. Mostly one off stuff. I’m concerned though that having only a 5ax machine might actually slow me down a bit. Especially on steel parts. But maybe I’m just basing this on my wussy TRT experience. It would disrupt my shop layout the least though.

Option 3: new 3ax and delayed 5ax purchase? The real 5ax machine would potentially open me up to a whole new world of possibilities. Having the TRT at the ready though might let me dip my toe in the water. I could always replace the haas + TRT with a real 5ax down the road if I see potential with the TRT. Then I’d have a much nicer larger 3ax machine to complement it.

Do you guys who know a thing or two have any strong opinions or other options that I should consider?

Thanks!!

I would add another machine. Also where you find dvf5000 for 240k? Down here in Florida they are running about 310.

 

[mhajicek]

I used a VF-3SS with a TRT160Y for about six years, and it was pretty decent. After a little practice (like three times), I could setup and dial in the trunnion in an hour. If you want, you could buy or make a fixture mount, like the Lang Quick-Point or similar, and leave the mount plate on the table at all times. That would mean just crane it in, set it down and lock it, plug it in, and go. Set it up such that your vises mount the same way.

 

[xnewmanx]

I would add another machine. Also where you find dvf5000 for 240k? Down here in Florida they are running about 310.

The 4000 is 250. The 5000 is 280k.

 

[xnewmanx]

I used a VF-3SS with a TRT160Y for about six years, and it was pretty decent. After a little practice (like three times), I could setup and dial in the trunnion in an hour. If you want, you could buy or make a fixture mount, like the Lang Quick-Point or similar, and leave the mount plate on the table at all times. That would mean just crane it in, set it down and lock it, plug it in, and go. Set it up such that your vises mount the same way.

Yeah something like that is my other option. It’s just that some of my jobs only take 2 hours so changing over for that long really does cost a lot in terms of available time.

 

[xnewmanx]

Are you limited on available electrical power in your garage? That might answer your question.

I have a 60hp rotary that runs my current equipment. I can run both existing machines at full rapid without issue. I can’t see myself running three machines at once for the foreseeable future.

 

[Ox]

"Air Blast"

If this is something that you really would like to have (and you already have TSC) this is not rocket science.

Just go upstream of the rotary union somewhere and split the garden hose.
Plumb the wet end to one "outgoing" port on a hydraulic valve. (gunna want a decent sized valve for the flow that you are after)
Plumb the dry end of that split hose to the "Incoming" port. Stuff an air line on the other "outgoing" port.
(Running bass akwards)

Not sure if a valve like that is available in "spring return" but I would guess so?
(They start to get into "Pilot porting" around 3/4"+, so .... ???)

Now all you need is a spare M code to shift the valve when you want air, and you are in business.

You will likely NOT want to run much high speed / duration cycles that way tho as the rotary union is likely expecting to be lubed with the coolant. If longer term air use is required, you would likely need to upgrade the union sooner than later.


Per the machine Q:
I would normally go with the extra machine - rather than a fancier one.
But then I have a LOT of those extra machines, so ...
Not fit in the garage in 33 years now...


--------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[EndlessWaltz]

Depending on downtime on the lathe I would trade it for a y-axis with a subspindle depending on the size of your work. You said it yourself you don't want to crane over the TRt for 4th axis work. Unless you are doing alot of shaft work with the need of a true tailstock why would you keep it?

 

[Stirling]

Right now I have a fairly nice little shop set up at home. Can see it here. LINK

CURRENT MACHINES:
I have a 2021 vf2ssyt with a trt160 5 axis and a 2022 doosan lynx 2100lb.

The doosan is a basic 2 axis machine. I think if I had spring for a live tool machine I’d be less eager to get another machine because a lot of the stuff I want to use the TRT for is stuff that the lathe could do.

The haas is well optioned: Probing, thru spindle coolant, air blast, multi augers, obv the 4th and 5th axis drives. Only thing I wish it has was thru tool air blast. If I were to buy a second one I think it comes out to around 120k.
HOW I USE THEM:
I use the mill a lot, the lathe a little less. What I almost never use is the TRT in the haas. The few times I have used it I like it, and there are a LOT of times when I have a use for it, but it’s such a bitch to remove my vises, crane it over, put it in, indicate it in, etc that I usually just work around it and make some weird fixture. I have three 2 station vices in the haas. Most of the parts I make can fit in a single station in a single vice, but I occasionally machine parts that are 12”x12”x12”. I might also get into making jet ski engine cases which would start from a 16x12x6 billet. I think the only way I could do this would be with a 5ax machine, though.

SPACE:
I’m tight on space but I could fit another machine with some sacrifices.


THE OPTIONS I CAN THINK OF:

I’ll use doosan for machine examples but I think their pricing is fairly in line with Mazak.

Option 1: Two VMCs. Buy a nicer, larger 3ax machine like a DN-DNM5700. Keep the TRT in the haas along with one vice for light 5 axis work. Continue doing the majority of my work in the doosan (and hopefully with a production bump because I can add another station and run harder because it is more rigid. The 5700 will cost me about 110k out of pocket optioned out how I’d like it.

Option 2: one 5ax machine. Sell the haas and get some sort of real (rigid) 5 axis machine. Probably the more expensive option but saves the most space. Either a dfv4000 or dvf5000. Around 250k or 280k respectively. I’m thinking I could get maybe 100-120k for the haas, (maybe I’m dreaming but let’s assume) that leaves me with 150-180 out of pocket. It would require a full reset on everything I currently make, which isn’t a ton of repeat stuff. Mostly one off stuff. I’m concerned though that having only a 5ax machine might actually slow me down a bit. Especially on steel parts. But maybe I’m just basing this on my wussy TRT experience. It would disrupt my shop layout the least though.

Option 3: new 3ax and delayed 5ax purchase? The real 5ax machine would potentially open me up to a whole new world of possibilities. Having the TRT at the ready though might let me dip my toe in the water. I could always replace the haas + TRT with a real 5ax down the road if I see potential with the TRT. Then I’d have a much nicer larger 3ax machine to complement it.

Do you guys who know a thing or two have any strong opinions or other options that I should consider?

Thanks!!

If you have the work and cash id go with a 3rd machine. It looks like you have the space.
A rearranging to create a work cell would be preferable vs having them back to back. ( that would drive me crazy.

 

[crossthread82]

Trade the VF2 out for a larger 3 axis mill maybe an M560v and replace the lathe with a y axis sub spindle lathe probably a lynx 2600SY. You'd get the best of both worlds then you can add a real 5 axis machine to the mix later down the road.

 

[xnewmanx]

Trade the VF2 out for a larger 3 axis mill maybe an M560v and replace the lathe with a y axis sub spindle lathe probably a lynx 2600SY. You'd get the best of both worlds then you can add a real 5 axis machine to the mix later down the road.

You know… this is a pretty good idea.

I will have my DN dealer quote me on a 2600LY and a DNM5700.

I can probably get more bang for my buck this way. More floor space and less out of pocket, assuming I can get a good price for my current machines.

 

[Kingbob]

not to derail your thread but what are the dimensions of your shop? I am still building out my home shop and I love your layout and use of space just wondering what kinda of sq footage you are working with

 

[xnewmanx]

not to derail your thread but what are the dimensions of your shop? I am still building out my home shop and I love your layout and use of space just wondering what kinda of sq footage you are working with

It’s 30x40 but I’m trying to expand it to 30x60

 

[Kingbob]

It’s 30x40 but I’m trying to expand it to 30x60

ok Cool! I'm in a 25 x 40, I thought it looked similarly sized. Never gonna be big enough

 

[OVodov]

For your VF-2 you can add for example Schunk Vero system,
so, switching between vise ant TRT will take seconds.
Friend of my keeps his 4th axis unit hanging on the hook of machine ceiling all time when he doesn't need it.

 

[Ox]

For your VF-2 you can add for example Schunk Vero system,
so, switching between vise ant TRT will take seconds.
Friend of my keeps his 4th axis unit hanging on the hook of machine ceiling all time when he doesn't need it.

I think that I would want a track system at the least so that once winched up, that it could be slid down the rail a bit (and maybe even sat down on the upper sheet-metal) so that it wasn't over my head all the time.


---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[xnewmanx]

You know… this is a pretty good idea.

I will have my DN dealer quote me on a 2600LY and a DNM5700.

I can probably get more bang for my buck this way. More floor space and less out of pocket, assuming I can get a good price for my current machines.

Got a pretty reasonable quote on these two machines so I'm going to see what I can get for my Haas and Lynx and report back.