Homebuilt CNC in Tokyo

[Vancbiker]

…….If you don't think a post or thread is appropriate, ignore it, move on.

I usually do. That decline of quality topics and lack of moderation in this forum is why I spend far less time here than I used to, contribute less and complain more.

 

[Bakafish]

I usually do. That decline of quality topics and lack of moderation in this forum is why I spend far less time here than I used to, contribute less and complain more.

While it would seem my post was 'off topic' for this forum which I humbly noted several times, you continuously imply that the quality of my post was poor. Your insulting gate keeping and needless disparagement over an unintentional infraction reflects poorly on you.

 

[Milland]

Don't take it personally, Baka. One needs a reasonably thick skin to survive here. We are, after all, mostly grumpy old machinists and not known for our communication skills.

I've hung out at the garage forum a bit, and while it's fine, I think you'll get better feedback here than there on your build.

 

[Vancbiker]

While it would seem my post was 'off topic' for this forum which I humbly noted several times, you continuously imply that the quality of my post was poor. Your insulting gate keeping and needless disparagement over an unintentional infraction reflects poorly on you.

Your post is ok and pretty well written. I’m only lamenting the fact that threads about DIY stepper driven routers are no longer locked or deleted.

 

[turnworks]

Some good calculators out there for cutting forces. Pick what you want the machine to mill, cutter size, depth of cut, step over, ect then use those numbers and test at each level of the build.

Hook up a dial test indicator and apply the calculated force and record the deflection. Much easier to redesign an axis when you don't have it completely built.

Even in an industrial setting not everything can just be bought sometimes you need to make something from scratch to get the parts out the door. Its a good learning experience if nothing else.

 

[triumph406]

Personally I'm more interested in how you go about building this in Japan with it's seemingly different culture and commerce, then I'm in the machine itself.

 

[bastarddsm]

Your post is ok and pretty well written. I’m only lamenting the fact that threads about DIY stepper driven routers are no longer locked or deleted.

Yet there seems to be no shortage of guys turing chunks of something into $100 bills on these diy stepper shitboxes. Seems practical to me?

I could get behind you on this if it was belt driven wooden pile, but by diy standards it's pretty solid.

 

[EmGo]

Personally I'm more interested in how you go about building this in Japan with it's seemingly different culture and commerce, then I'm in the machine itself.

Hunh ? They have stores and electricity and shipping companies in Japan. Importing and exporting is nowhere near the problem baked fish here claims, we've bought lots of stuff from Japan and sold a little, no big deal. The yahoo japan auction/sales site had tons of neat goodies, way better than fleabay, more interesting stuff than taobao. (Don't know if they still do, haven't done that in a while)

He's just snivelling.

and have to pretty much agree with Vanc, another junky stepper-drive pos is pretty much "enthusiast" category. Nothing remotely novel about this "build".

 

[Milland]

and have to pretty much agree with Vanc, another junky stepper-drive pos is pretty much "enthusiast" category. Nothing remotely novel about this "build".

I'm sorry you've been forced into reading the thread. It must be horrible, not having the freedom to move on to things that interest you.

Hey, there's someone complaining about body odor in another topic - why don't you tell them that's not novel either?

 

[EmGo]

I'm sorry you've been forced into reading the thread. It must be horrible, not having the freedom to move on to things that interest you.

If you'll notice, I wasn't bitching, but y'all jumped on Vanc when in fact, he's got a valid point. Just doin' tha merikan thing, root for the underdog.

Hey, there's someone complaining about body odor in another topic - why don't you tell them that's not novel either?

I was thinking that was a perfect opportunity to run over and do an Ali impression, "He's so strong, should use Ban roll-on !" but alas, kids these days have no sense of history. They probably don't even know his perennial

I love your show
and I like your style ...
But the pay's so low
I won't be back for a while !

Which was pretty funny the first three hundred times .... shoulda quit after the thrilla. Maybe he'd still be around, cracking us up ... for someone who hit other people in the face for a living, Ali was a really nice person.

 

[Big B]

I actually am lucky enough to own my home, which is considered quite large by Tokyo standards, but is likely much smaller than some of your garages. You get used to living small, but for things like this it can really make things challenging.

But clearly this is not the right place to document such a build, although I will absolutely be documenting it elsewhere as indicated above.

I think you would have a decent group following your build here too. If not I can see if I can find it on the other site.

 

[Milland]

If you'll notice, I wasn't bitching, but y'all jumped on Vanc when in fact, he's got a valid point. Just doin' tha merikan thing, root for the underdog.

Yeah, which is why you need to jump into the BO thread and protect the rights of the odoriferous challenged - go on boy, sic 'em!

 

[EmGo]

Yeah, which is why you need to jump into the BO thread and protect the rights of the odoriferous challenged - go on boy, sic 'em!

I'd rather think about a miniature milling machine. Like this project only done well.

Gantry, fuck. It's a small size. Do like a Hermle, make tall walls on each side with ways at the top, then put a simple girder across. Much stiffer, what's the price diff on a little machine ?

Rescrape an old surface plate, phooey on that, cast the box out of harcrete.

Aluminum because it's light ! Yes, it's three times lighter than steel but also one third as stiff. So it's the same. But I bet with some actual engineering you could get a lighter, stiffer structure out of steel. Or in such a little thing, magnesium might be worth considering.

Steppers and ballscrews, phooey on that crap, linear motors, seriously. Used in volume for process handling and pick-and-place applications already, faster quieter and more accurate than screws.

Ways, hi-win linear give me a break. It's small. Pretty easy to come up with a hydrodynamic scheme, stiffer, faster, better in all ways except expense. But this thing is tiny, so what's fifty bucks difference ?

I'm not a moderator but the place supposedly is for "professional" or at least upscale, not my business but Vanc really does have a point, this could be an interesting project but it isn't. It's just another hobbyshop wackoff thing, supposedly not what the site is for.

 

[DDoug]

To the OP....Now doo you see why I posted ?

 

[Bakafish]

I knew I was going to be crapped on about the design, I just was offended that he seemed to be attacking the quality of my writing. He clarified that though, so I apologize for overreacting to that.

I've already been working on redesigning several aspects based on some of the better recommendations. I agree that this group is far more likely to be able to contribute valuable advise, but it isn't clear that dealing with all the hostility from, I'll use the term again, gatekeepers who think they are the arbiters of the one true way, is worth it. I'm not trying to go into the CNC business, I'm building a tool to help me build things.

I again want you guys to think about the total environment this is in. Things like concrete and epoxy granite are excellent materials, and if possible I will integrate them where it makes sense, but this machine is going into a house that has wooden floors and small doorways and tight halls. Earthquakes are common here, literally they happen weekly. I intend to reinforce the floor and tie it to the underlying slab, but weight and the ability for one person to disassemble and move the machine, AND DISPOSE OF IT IF I NEED TO in this environment are critical design constraints. I keep trying to tell you guys that I am literally in the heart of Tokyo, and like most people here we do not bother having a car. You can't just rent a cement mixer, pick up a few bags of cement at the corner Lowes and pour some bloody forms. None of that is possible, this is not the US. I'm willing to go to great lengths, but choose to do so where it makes sense. The choice of Aluminum is because it is easily reinforced or replaceable if it doesn't perform as well as I hope. I can always find a use for a nice piece of profile and it is easily recycled, but a massive block of cement with metal embedded in it will cost hundreds of dollars to dispose of, if I can find the right company to take it. Trash collection here is ridiculously complicated and regulated, I have to live with this thing and assume it has a finite lifespan. If I die, I don't want to make it any harder on my wife than I need to.

As far as the 'steppers' are concerned, the ones I am using are very sophisticated, Japanese built closed loop units with extremely good absolute encoders. They are the most powerful and sophisticated I could find. If you are not familiar with the Oriental Motors Alpha series, maybe take a look before crapping on them. Yes, I know servos are always better but the ones commonly available here are all 3-phase. This is what I have, it is a constraint, but not as bad as you are making out.

I also want to note, the Hiwin rails are one of the few deviations from keeping this machine made out of domestic parts. I honestly don't know why some of you would shit on them, the genuine ones are very high quality. They have certainly suffered reputational loss from all the cheap clones, but I'm happy to use them, especially for the price I got them from Hiwin Japan.

My philosophy has been to obtain good quality parts (as cheaply as possible) in order to constrain the design, otherwise it all ends up being endless theory crafting. Even if I have a lot more flexibility, I'm trying to treat this like Apollo 13, I have a fixed set of parts, I am going to figure out how to put them together to get myself home.

 

[Milland]

My philosophy has been to obtain good quality parts (as cheaply as possible) in order to constrain the design, otherwise it all ends up being endless theory crafting. Even if I have a lot more flexibility, I'm trying to treat this like Apollo 13, I have a fixed set of parts, I am going to figure out how to put them together to get myself home.

If you want to use the Apollo 13 metaphor, then you need a good filter to keep the atmosphere tolerable. Just let your personal duct tape keep the haters at bay...

 

[EmGo]

I intend to reinforce the floor and tie it to the underlying slab, but weight and the ability for one person to disassemble and move the machine, AND DISPOSE OF IT IF I NEED TO in this environment are critical design constraints.

I thought you planned on building a machine ? If it comes out even as capable as a Haas Office Mill, its not something "to be disposed of." You'd want to sell it on yahoo for 30 to 50,000 USD.

And I may be mistaken but pretty sure Tokyo buildings have elevators. If you're in an old house, I've carried a 24" SGI monitor to the seventh floor (have to admit that almost killed me, them suckers is heavy and awkward), later on had two "workers" bring the 7400 Xerox to the fourth floor. No big deal.

You're making up problems.

I keep trying to tell you guys that I am literally in the heart of Tokyo,

You're ten million fatter than us but I doubt that Tokyo is much worse than downtown Shanghai. Little machine like you're talking is no big deal, people bring in bigger/heavier stuff all the time.

I'm waiting to hear the dog ate your homework.

 

[Milland]

I'm waiting to hear the dog ate your homework.

I'm waiting for you to give it a rest.

 

[Bakafish]

I thought you planned on building a machine ? If it comes out even as capable as a Haas Office Mill, its not something "to be disposed of." You'd want to sell it on yahoo for 30 to 50,000 USD.

And I may be mistaken but pretty sure Tokyo buildings have elevators. If you're in an old house, I've carried a 24" SGI monitor to the seventh floor (have to admit that almost killed me, them suckers is heavy and awkward), later on had two "workers" bring the 7400 Xerox to the fourth floor. No big deal.

You're making up problems.


You're ten million fatter than us but I doubt that Tokyo is much worse than downtown Shanghai. Little machine like you're talking is no big deal, people bring in bigger/heavier stuff all the time.

I'm waiting to hear the dog ate your homework.

Yeah, you clearly know way more about the place I've lived the last 15 years than I do, because you have tons of experience living in an entirely different place. Your cultural assumptions don't seem very sophisticated to me, but you don't seem like the introspective type, so no point in delving there. Your reading comprehension seems lacking as well, I have a house. There is no elevator, nor would I need one as it would be idiotic to put such a machine on an upper floor. The thing about CNC's is they are heavy and they throw mass around at high speeds, they need support that will have to be added to the existing floor, the heavier they are, the more complex that support will be. That is what we engineers call a tradeoff, one that I can hopefully optimize by not using cement or granite structural members.

The only thing you've been right about is the deals that can be had on Yahoo auctions here, the reason being that even pristine machinist treasures have little resale value in Japan. The idea that my wife is going to somehow find a buyer at any price for my hand built CNC should I pass is laughable, minimizing the cost and difficulty of disposing it is a far more important goal. Foresight doesn't seem to be your bag either.

Not sure why you are so invested in me being misleading about my project and the constraints, it doesn't seem nearly as fantastical as the silliness you proposed. I have the parts, I'm working on the plan, I will build it with no thoughts given of your incredulity. And honestly, are we supposed to be impressed at your name dropping of things you've carried up stairs? What kind of desperate virtue signaling is that? Did you once use a Sun Microsystems UltraSparc server as a breadboard? Or maybe you want to tell us how you used a DEC PDP keyboard as a loofah. What a weirdo you are...

 

[Milland]

Don't take the bait - not worth it. Focus on the task, not the distractions.