Hot Shot - And CDL Requirements

[Ox]

I just had an interesting talk with a fella that had delivered a used machine to a chum's shop when I was there helping myself to his shadowgraph. (Thanks Dave!)

He has this very long goose, with heavy flip down ramps out the back yet. He mentioned 40' off the cuff, and .. yeah, all in - it might be - not including the goose... But as I was looking this thing over, I realized that he only had tandem singles on it. So it got me asking ... as this is a big heifer for only 14K gross!


So, this fella has a newer 1 ton truck that he says has a GVWR of 14K.
He had this trailer custom built - yes with 7K axles, BUT he had them tag it for 12K GVWR.
This gits him a combined rating of 26K. (under 26,001)

I know that the law reads differently, but this guy says that he's been ran through the ringer by DOT accifers time and aggin, and every time, after giving him grief for how long, they end up coming back, appologizing for the trouble, agreeing that he is OK, and sending him on his way. He was telling stories of being everywhere from here to OK, TX, and wherever else, and been dooing so since 2011, and every time they send him on down the road.


But the more I think about it, I had to ask:

"Why not just git'cher CDL?"
Because from my vantage point - it seems like he is really limiting himself to how much he can haul.
He says that he has around 9000 net payload available.

So then there is the next shoe to drop:

He tells me that to git'cher CDL (at least here in the great state of Ohio) it is now a 4 week course and $7000!

Good grief!


Now, the statute states:

You will need a CDL to operate any of the following vehicles: A single vehicle with a GVWR over 26,000 lbs. A combination vehicle with a GVWR over 26,000 lbs, towing a unit over 10,000 lbs GVWR. A passenger vehicle designed to carry 16 or more people, including the driver.

So, I Shirley don't know how they are letting him through with a trailer tagged for 12K, but ???

But then the fact of this new requirements for gitt'n your liscence!
Gotta make darn sure not to let mine lapse!


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[gtermini]

I read the law the same way as you. If you're pulling a trailer manufacturer tag rated at 10,000 or greater and engaged in interstate commerce, reguardless of combination GVWR, you need a CDL.

They'd been popping lots of traveling rodeo and motorsports folk pulling big enclosed or living quarter horse trailers saying that since they paid entry fees at events and claimed taxable prize money, they were involved in interstate commerce.

I haven't figured out why there's 12k tagged trailers yet, unless somehow they make you under 26k and legal in-state, but it seems pretty gray to me.

Here in Oregon, trailers are flat weight taxed yearly like a regular car from 1600 to 8000 pounds gross. Under 1600 doesn't require and registration and over 8k is a permanent registration where the tow vehicle must be paying the weight tax for the combined GVWR of the vehicle and the trailer. They pop a lot of cowboys pulling 1k flatbeds with mini excavators here with a permanent trailer plate and passenger registration on the F350. That's a paddlin' and about a $3500 fine.

The mega carriers lobbied the FMCSA to add the school requirement about 2 years ago. It used to be, as you thought, where a person could just show up, take the test, do a pre-trip and drive in a qualified rig, and walk out with a CDL. I think these mega carriers are using their drive schools as a form of indentured servitude. They get Jim-Bob to sign a contract, send him to their steering wheel holding bootcamp, then hold him liable for the "expense" of school. So he's required to drive for them at some crappy cents per mile for a year or whatever until his time is served or pay the penalty "cost" they assign to the CDL school.

 

[Ox]

I guess it's b/c his "combined" is not over 26K, then the 12K trailer does not come into play.

Still would seem esier to find loads with more available payload.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[gtermini]

I don't see how he gets around it. edit: I guess the first box on the flow chart answers my question.

Most of the hot shot drivers I've met would have trouble walking and chewing bubble gum at the same time, but seem to have a superhuman ability to dodge chickencoops and weighmasters.

 

[Ox]

B/c his combination is AT 26K, not 26,001 or more.

I was always under the thought that any (commercial) combination vehicle with a trailer of - or over - 10K was the requirement. I didn't think that it mattered whether or not your combi was over 26K or not.

Like a 14K trailer and a 10K truck. (historically this would be a heavy 1 ton single axle)
Or even a dually at 12K and a 12K trailer.
Either of those would be under 26K Or at least not over 26K) but have 10K+ trailers.

But now I see the 26K threshold callout.
Was it always there?
Has that been changed in recent years?
B/c I just don't recall that being in the description before.

???


Your top link - it seems like it used to say:
Is your single vehickle over 26K?
Does your combi contain a trailer over 10K?

But the way it's shown there, the answer is NO before you even git to the trailer question.


The way that it reads now, they could take the whole trailer GVWR totally out of the equazsion.
It's moot.
"Is your combined GVWR over 26K?"
Yeh, or neh?



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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[jeff76]

B/c his combination is AT 26K, not 26,001 or more.

I was always under the throught that any (commercial) combination vehicle with a trailer of - or over - 10K was the requirement. I didn't think that it mattered whether or not your combi was over 26K or not.

Like a 14K trailer and a 10K truck. (historically this would be a heavy 1 ton single axle)
Or even a dually at 12K and a 12K trailer.
Either of those would be under 26K Or at least not over 26K) but have 10K+ trailers.

But now I see the 26K threshold callout.
Was it always there?
Has that been changed in recent years?
B/c I just don't recall that being in the description before.

???


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Seems to me that years ago it just called out the trailer being over 10k if I remember correctly. That is why my previous trailer was bought, as it was rated 10k. It has been this way at least a couple years though as I ordered a new trailer a couple years back and it read this way then. My current trailer has 2 8k axles and I had it down-rated to 14k for this very reason. I do very little hauling and only for myself and not for profit so really wouldnt matter much in my case though.

Jeff

 

[m16ty]

Anything over 10k gvw and in interstate commerce requires a cdl. If you just run intrastate only you can get by without cdl at 26k in most states.

As far as the new school requirement, while you can go to a 6 week school and pay them a lot of money, there are other ways. I filled out the paperwork and I'm registered as an instructor for what they call "Entry Level Driver Training". If you've been a driver in good standing for I think 5 years, you can qualify to be an instructor. I've been driving for 30 years.

 

[Ox]

Anything over 10k gvw and in interstate commerce requires a cdl. If you just run intrastate only you can get by without cdl at 26k in most states.

Can you provide anything -current - to support that?

That's not how it currently appears.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[johfoster]

"A combination vehicle with a GVWR over 26,000 lbs, towing a unit over 10,000 lbs GVWR."

I read this to be a vehicle who is over 26,000 lbs, towing a trailer over 10lbs. Saying "exempt vehicles over 26,000 lbs" maybe is what is missing. I suspect this to be directed 100% at RV's. Still don't need a cdl to drive a 45k lb motorhomes down the road, even when pulling a small car behind them so long as its under 10k. Just a guess.

 

[mmarquette]

I have my own class BCDL and work on tri-axle dump trucks for a lot of people and we discuss this a lot more lately how hard it is to get a CDL. Seems like everybody’s begging for drivers but now you’ve got to come up with that amount of cash and go take a class and takeoff work to do it Used to be about like getting a normal drivers license permit and then go take a driving test after your inspection No problem .Not that I think the class is going to make a driver any better butmay be it does filter out the ones that really can’t drive, but I’m sure there’s plenty that can come up with the money that don’t know how to drive also if they really wanna CDL

 

[Ox]

I am going to say that this [apparent] new change to the code relieves most of the small time hobbiests from needing to git a CDL. I would think that most folks with a cpl horsies or a race car, or whatnot should now be exempt. And now fixates on the more frequent and heavier flyers.

Prolly a good move, but I just never heard of it, and don't know when this changed.
Not that it applies to me anyway as my rig is 35K.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

 

[Rob F.]

Here are the Ca requirements for a CDL, link below:

What Classifies as a CMV?

A CMV is defined as a motor vehicle or combination of vehicles and trailers used for hire to transport passengers or property.

A single vehicle with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
A combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 pounds or more.
A vehicle designed, used, or maintained for carrying more than ten passengers (including the driver).
A vehicle towing another vehicle or trailer with a GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more.
A vehicle transporting hazardous materials (requires placards).
A vehicle transporting hazardous waste as defined in California Health and Safety Code §25115 and §25117.
A vehicle towing a combination of two trailers or vehicle and trailer.
A 3-axle vehicle weighing more than 6,000 pounds.

From link:

Commercial Driver's Licenses - California DMV

DMV issues commercial driver’s licenses (CDLs) to ensure that drivers meet our high standards for operating commercial motor vehicles.

www.dmv.ca.gov

And a little more from the highway patrol:

https://www.chp.ca.gov/CommercialVehicleSectionSite/Documents/IB%20California%20Driver%20License%20Requirements%20for%20Towing%20Trailers.pdf

I dont see anywhere that you can tow over 10k lbs with a class c (normal) driver licence, It all seems to say 26k max which can include trailer up to 10k. 12k truck towing 14k trailer would sure be nice...

 

[Mud]

This gets argued endlessly on various forums. One problem is that the regs between 10,000 lbs and 26,000 lbs are not uniform between states, are written somewhat obtusely in almost all, and some have changed in the last 2 decades. Many trailer and truck sellers don't know the facts, even locally. I ran into this 20+ years ago when i bought a used 18K trailer to tow behind a 10K truck. Dealer believed that any power unit less than 26K didn't need a CDL or special licensing regardless of trailer, and had trucks on his lot of 25,900 lb GVWR as examples. Licensing offices didn't agree with each other. State officials didn't know or agreee. I had a VERY hard time finding out exactly what was needed, After many calls the State Police finally referred me to the trooper who ran a weight station about 100 miles away, he was the only official who was competent to advise me in the eastern half of PA. and was of course hard to contact, and not very good natured about it when I did get through to him.
What I learned from him , and have confirmed through experience since then is as follows. A vehicle over 26K or a combo over 26K needs a CDL driver unless it's exempt (Motorhomes are an example of exempt as long as there is no commercial use of the motorhome, such as advertising on the side, a mobile office, or transporting items for sale to a flea market) (Exemptions like this are an example of how complicated this can get) (Race car trailers used to be 100% commercial if you had the potential to win a cash prize, that has changed in the last decade or so with a rule specifically for race car trailers.)
So, over 26K GVWR needs a CDL. IF over 26K AND the trailer is over 10K, you need a Class A CDL.Over 26K with 10k or under trailer Class B is OK.
I acquired a trailer w/ 15.950lb gvwr to tow behind my 10K 1 ton pickup. Total GVWR 25,950. Have had several drivers with only class C licenses questioned by DOT officers, all cleared OK. As far west as Wyoming and as far south as Florida. The first 2 things a DOT cop looks at are the GVW plate on the trailer and on the truck before you even hand him your logbook and license and medical card. With the 18K trailer I had one taken out of service by a DOT cop in Georgia while i was in the passenger seat, that's what started this research. ( I have a Class A CDL)
Rob F's post shows CA requires a CDL for towing a trailer over 10K. CA requirements are unique in a lot of ways, and seem to change regularly. an example is dromedary boxes on tractors - A cargo box on the back of a tractor instead of a sleeper - racers used them for generators and compressors, every one headed into CA for the Winternationals one year got stopped at the border and had to hire other tractors to tow their trailers to the track. AFAIK all other states are as I described above. I don't think CA regs should be the primary source of info for outside of CA.

Over 26K triggers more than just CDLs. You also need more complicated licensing and fuel tax record keeping unless you stay 100% inside your state lines. With the 18k trailer I needed an apportioned registration, and needed to record mileage and pay fees to every state I traveled in. I also needed an IFTA sticker on my power unit and needed to record mileage and fuels purchased in each state including my home state and send in additional fuel tax fees to each state and complete the reports of same every 3 months. Needles to say I was highly motivated to get rid of all that and get under 26K GCWR, because I was never loaded to much over 20K on the road.

In PA, a trailer 10k or under is covered under the towing vehicle's regular vehicle license fee, you don't need any extra capacity on the plate. Over 10K you need a combination plate, paying for both the truck and trailer. For examples, a 26K truck towing a 10K traierl had a GCWR of 36K, the 26K plate on the truck is satisfactory. But a 12K truck with a 12K trailer is 24K, and needs a combination registration plate(but no CDL)

90% of the opinions on the internet are that over 10K trailers need CDLs no matter what, but that's not how it is enforced.

Here's the trailer in question. 43' long 3 8000 lb axles, 15,950 GVWR

 

[reggie_obe]

I guess it's b/c his "combined" is not over 26K, then the 12K trailer does not come into play.

Still would seem esier to find loads with more available payload.


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Maybe he can't pass the medical.

 

[Steve in SoCal]

Maybe he can't pass the medical.

You need a DOT medical card even with a class C interstate

 

[idacal]

Im only intrastate only and have a guy going through the classes for a class A right now. Going to be a round 5 grand here.I Got busted a few years ago 3/4 ton pickup pulling a 20 k trailer no cdl, he had pulled that trailer because the smaller one was loaded. we had driven under the radar for years, ended up with 2 misdemeanors on my business over that one. Now i jump through the hoops. It was a good run but now i have to be legal or the fines get big and a shut down is posible.

 

[reggie_obe]

You need a DOT medical card even with a class C interstate

In the OP, the driver holds no CDL and his combined weight is below the 26k limit. He's flying below the radar, probably claiming his load is personal property.
Where does CDL class C come into play?

 

[idacal]

class c is 16 passenger or more under 26000 and hazmat under whatever number weight.

 

[Rob F.]

Being in California my takeaway is that we (here anyway) can drive any 2 axle truck up to a weight of 26000 lbs without a CDL. I think I saw somewhere a max GVW of 6000 for 3 axles, probably meant for limos or?
No matter the truck GVW, the max trailer weight is 10000 lbs and the trailer weight will subtract from the 26000 lb of a truck, so if you are towing a 10k trailer the max your truck can be is 16k, for a total weight of 26k lbs.

 

[Mud]

Being in California my takeaway is that we (here anyway) can drive any 2 axle truck up to a weight of 26000 lbs without a CDL. I think I saw somewhere a max GVW of 6000 for 3 axles, probably meant for limos or?
No matter the truck GVW, the max trailer weight is 10000 lbs and the trailer weight will subtract from the 26000 lb of a truck, so if you are towing a 10k trailer the max your truck can be is 16k, for a total weight of 26k lbs.

That's how I read it too. Do it while you can, CA has long been more restrictive than any other state and gets more so at random. Here's what happened this year - over 14K pre-2010 diesels are illegal in CA.

California begins its ban on old diesel semis

In farm years, a 12-year-old engine is often not even broken in on many dairy farms.That really doesn’t matter to legislators and regulators in California, though. It’s now illegal to drive a,Hoard's Dairyman Intel

hoards.com