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How to move on from a vital position?

DouglasJRizzo

Titanium
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Location
Ramsey, NJ.
OK. A few things to bear in mind -
A) If the company saw to it, you'd be gone Monday morning at the opening bell. They wouldn't go out of their way for you if things got really bad - and it looks like it might.
B) If they really cared, they would update - BUT - it sounds like dad's place, things stagnated, wore out, and it eventually died on the vine. I got out just in time, you should too. That brings me to the next...
C) Finding a job now will be MUCH BETTER for you than finding one after they are hanging auction tags. Your bargaining power and value diminish because when the shop goes under water - and make no mistake, it's heading there - other employers will spy an opportunity to get you "on the cheap."
D) Dedication and loyalty are one thing, but tying yourself to the ship's wheel of the Titanic because you feel sorry for the Captain isn't really smart, IMO.
 

gbent

Diamond
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Location
Kansas
Pay raise is good for 90 days.

Why are they paying so little for wages? If they are cash poor because they are selling to cheaply the problem might be fixable. If there are owners who pull to much cash out of the business, especially to fund family members that offer no value to the company, the situation is hopeless.

If the shop is hoping to transition to production work, just leave now. Production sucks. Not only sucks, but it requires an entirely different mind set from job shop and short run thinking.

With all the stories on the state of employment, now is a very good time to get a new job.
 

TheMachinist27

Plastic
Joined
Nov 19, 2021
Ok. It’s clear that, without some sort of clear sign that an improvement plan is about to go into action, the ship’s probably sailed. That’s hard for me to face for a place that brought me into my first job but, reality can be that way. Thank you all.

Let me ask one more question, perhaps a pay check. Given my role: lead programmer, assisting in quotes, scheduling all of the CNC work, filling in for the manager when he is out, giving any and all assistance to the operators when needed, doing inspections as required and making parts manually or on CNC when required: what’s a fair rate/benefits? 8 years in the trade, all at this one shop. I’m the third most senior guy on the floor/in lower management, the next two have been here 9 and 11-12 years (this one being the machine shop manager). The machine shop has about 15 people all told, the company as a whole 50.
 

kustomizer

Titanium
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Location
North Fork Idaho
Ok. It’s clear that, without some sort of clear sign that an improvement plan is about to go into action, the ship’s probably sailed. That’s hard for me to face for a place that brought me into my first job but, reality can be that way. Thank you all.

Let me ask one more question, perhaps a pay check. Given my role: lead programmer, assisting in quotes, scheduling all of the CNC work, filling in for the manager when he is out, giving any and all assistance to the operators when needed, doing inspections as required and making parts manually or on CNC when required: what’s a fair rate/benefits? 8 years in the trade, all at this one shop. I’m the third most senior guy on the floor/in lower management, the next two have been here 9 and 11-12 years (this one being the machine shop manager). The machine shop has about 15 people all told, the company as a whole 50.

Many find that they are very good at what they do in the shop where they do it only to find they can't do a damn thing right in the next shop, perhaps work a few week ends or take a week off to test another place before you jump, as mentioned above, this is the time to do it.
 

thermite

Diamond
Ok. It’s clear that, without some sort of clear sign that an improvement plan is about to go into action, the ship’s probably sailed. That’s hard for me to face for a place that brought me into my first job but, reality can be that way. Thank you all.

Let me ask one more question, perhaps a pay check. Given my role: lead programmer, assisting in quotes, scheduling all of the CNC work, filling in for the manager when he is out, giving any and all assistance to the operators when needed, doing inspections as required and making parts manually or on CNC when required: what’s a fair rate/benefits? 8 years in the trade, all at this one shop. I’m the third most senior guy on the floor/in lower management, the next two have been here 9 and 11-12 years (this one being the machine shop manager). The machine shop has about 15 people all told, the company as a whole 50.

If.. you are genuinely READY.. for the next step?

You already know that.

And even how you would handle it.

If not, not.

"Being there" (anywhere..) for a given period of time.. "covering" for non-emergency absence of next-higher, or even emergencies, but familiar ones.. is not the same as being able to handle the planning of NEW things or the totally unforeseen emergency that has NO prior basis for familiarity.

IOW "If you still have to ask total strangers...?"

You may still need a mentor, locally, even if not under-same-roof, to prepare for ... whatever your next, best, move might be.

It isn't always what you think it is.
Nor always the seemingly obvious move to OTHERS, either.

Focus on such things as if your life depended on them.
Because it does.

At least as to quality, if not also basic sustenance,

Not as if you get an unlimited number of attempts at it.
Not as if anyone but yourself has any greater control over it.

2CW
 

JST

Diamond
Joined
Jun 16, 2001
Location
St Louis
You said the most important thing about the company a while back, when you said everyone above the GM was "family", and he was married-in.

You are not part of the place like they are.

Those places are full of problems, because they cannot make good business decisions due to "family" issues. They tend to take care of the family even when they cannot afford to do it.

Just get out on your own terms, don't let anything be known until you put in your notice. Find a better place to go first, and then give notice.

Odds are you leaving will not be any higher on the problem list than you were on the priority list. And it's not something you need to worry about.

The GM does need to, if he is perceived as screwing the others over, he has to deal with the family fallout in the future. You don't. You can be happy it's that way.
 

Mechanola

Stainless
Joined
Mar 21, 2011
Location
Äsch
In this country you were the typical case of further training and a step up or to start a business yourself.
 

DouglasJRizzo

Titanium
Joined
Jun 7, 2011
Location
Ramsey, NJ.
Ok. It’s clear that, without some sort of clear sign that an improvement plan is about to go into action, the ship’s probably sailed. That’s hard for me to face for a place that brought me into my first job but, reality can be that way. Thank you all.

Let me ask one more question, perhaps a pay check. Given my role: lead programmer, assisting in quotes, scheduling all of the CNC work, filling in for the manager when he is out, giving any and all assistance to the operators when needed, doing inspections as required and making parts manually or on CNC when required: what’s a fair rate/benefits? 8 years in the trade, all at this one shop. I’m the third most senior guy on the floor/in lower management, the next two have been here 9 and 11-12 years (this one being the machine shop manager). The machine shop has about 15 people all told, the company as a whole 50.

That is region dependent.
However I would start checking things out and talking to folk NOW.
I'd also do as some others suggested and maybe work a few weekends someplace (if possible) and learn how the other places roll.
The best time is NOW.
 

Fal Grunt

Titanium
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Location
Medina OH
Definitely shop around and try to have a job lined up before leaving.

We are considering a change that would put me back working for the man. Not ideal, but let's be frank, all these talks of labor shortages, and everyone begging for employee's, companies still want to pay outside vendors $35/hr for tool & die work. Several of my friends recommended several places and I put the word out I was looking. A good friend of mine is a mold maker about 5 years younger than me and told me the place he works at is looking to hire. By his accounting, I am far more skilled, far more knowledgeable, and a better machinist. After wasting an enormous amount of my time (their standard hiring process is 4 in person interviews plus 2 phone interviews each lasting about an hour) they offered me $26/hr. When a tow motor operator with a GED STARTS at $24/hr at the climate controlled plant down the road, why would I work with a tenth or two tolerance, loads of responsibility and stress, for $26?

So, what I'm saying is, get a good look at the available market. There are several shops around me that are desperate to hire. Desperate until you talk wages. Wages are all over the place today. Benefits are all over the place today. Maybe you don't want to continue programming? Maybe now is a good time to do a career change? Depending on your location you could get a job in the CPG industry for double or triple what you make now, with very little comparative stress.
 

CITIZEN F16

Titanium
Joined
May 2, 2021
That is region dependent.
However I would start checking things out and talking to folk NOW.
I'd also do as some others suggested and maybe work a few weekends someplace (if possible) and learn how the other places roll.
The best time is NOW.

Definitely true, in some states average pay in the high cost of living areas can be almost double of out in the sticks.
 

thermite

Diamond
Definitely shop around and try to have a job lined up before leaving.

We are considering a change that would put me back working for the man. Not ideal, but let's be frank, all these talks of labor shortages, and everyone begging for employee's, companies still want to pay outside vendors $35/hr for tool & die work. Several of my friends recommended several places and I put the word out I was looking. A good friend of mine is a mold maker about 5 years younger than me and told me the place he works at is looking to hire. By his accounting, I am far more skilled, far more knowledgeable, and a better machinist. After wasting an enormous amount of my time (their standard hiring process is 4 in person interviews plus 2 phone interviews each lasting about an hour) they offered me $26/hr. When a tow motor operator with a GED STARTS at $24/hr at the climate controlled plant down the road, why would I work with a tenth or two tolerance, loads of responsibility and stress, for $26?

^^^ THIS ^^^ is a freakin' travesty.

September of 1968, just back from 'nam, I took a pay CUT for my first postwar civilian job vs "O2, over three" as an Army officer.

No sweat. Seven months later, I was in job #2, caught back up, and moving ahead.

At age 23. For about $54,000 equivalent of today's money.

Well... that was the price of career change and it paid-off, because it ended up the lowest point in 34 years to first retirement.

So what does this have to do with $26/hr AKA $50,000/year NOW?

The online inflation adjuster says 18 to 23 year olds could command that, right out of the box, not even need a collitch degree nor apprenticeship, either one.

"Back in the day". Half a century ago.

No damned WONDER the great wave of resignations is afoot.

Y'see.. quite aside from inflation... we ALSO had silly small tax and FICA deductions, FULLY company paid retirement and healthcare .... back then.

Brethren.. our problem isn't that MINIMUM wage is too low.

Our problem is that maximum wages are!

Before deductions, yet.

:(

So what's afoot with so many folks opting-out of the workforce?

Wellll .. enough totally unconnected, independent-minded folk reach a similar conclusion, each on their own, that all they are doing is bleeding for the tax man and Obamacare.. nothing left for themselves.. and those deductions CEASE when they stop doing that?

A Union isn't the only way to have a strike over shiddy pay, is it?

Major shift coming?
Seems so.

But in what direction?

China ain't cheap no more... even when the ships flow on-time.

Besides.... who TF is BUYING if they aren't PAID enough to be ABLE to buy - regardless of "Made in..." location?
 

david n

Diamond
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Location
Pillager, MN
Put your feelings aside........some of us care too much and others too little..............trust me, the place you're at will continue w/o you.............lot's of us think we are essential to keep the world turnin'. We're not...................

Git out there, git another gig lined up and then put in your two weeks. Maybe even 3-4 weeks (if the new gig allows it) so you can help them transition. But I wouldn't, I'd just keep things short and simple.
 

Fancuku

Cast Iron
Joined
Dec 7, 2018
We are all replaceable. Employee or employer, doesn't matter. No one is irreplaceable.
If you are not happy, just get out. Don't make it harder than it needs to be.
 

david n

Diamond
Joined
Apr 13, 2007
Location
Pillager, MN
Not so ,seen lots of small businesses die when one key employee is removed......

Sure, it can go that way.............but if a biz is being carried on the shoulders of one employee, they should either fairly compensate the employee, reevaluate their operation, or deserve to go down in flames...............
 

cnctoolcat

Titanium
Joined
Sep 18, 2006
Location
Abingdon, VA
Let me ask one more question, perhaps a pay check. Given my role: lead programmer, assisting in quotes, scheduling all of the CNC work, filling in for the manager when he is out, giving any and all assistance to the operators when needed, doing inspections as required and making parts manually or on CNC when required: what’s a fair rate/benefits? 8 years in the trade, all at this one shop. I’m the third most senior guy on the floor/in lower management, the next two have been here 9 and 11-12 years (this one being the machine shop manager). The machine shop has about 15 people all told, the company as a whole 50.

In Tennessee, (similar to the rural regions of Virginia where I'm at), the job you're describing at that size company might pay $25-35 per hour, with plenty of benefits.

The auto plants and tier-level suppliers set manufacturing wages in the south...with production workers making maybe $18-24/hr. these days (with nice benefits, as most of these companies are larger-sized, with a good percentage being foreign owned.)

For smaller job shops, pay can be all over the map. Production operators (warm bodies) $14-18/hr. to start. I have no idea what a skilled machinist would make at a smaller place...$20-25/hr.? (I'm the skilled machinist at my small shop, so my wages fluctuate with the business.)

A talented, capable machinist would have to run their own shop to get their true value, I would imagine...

ToolCat
 
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john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
On of my guys quit to buy a lunch wagon,was his long term goal for working.........anyway ,he was back in about six months to see me....he wanted some finance to buy a second wagon.....he showed me his tax books ,then he showed me his greasy pencil entry note book..he couldnt get finance from a bank on the tax records,but on the notebook,it was a goldmine.....So I gave him the money. He had a pretty cousin to run the other van,and she doubled his sales with a bit of torn shorts and tits out.....she could sell a can of drink that cost us 8c for $1.50...
 








 
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