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How would a shooting war effect manufacturing in Europe?

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Straightedge

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Location
Germany/California
A diseased man pretending to wear a prayer cap does not a Jew make.

People who are actually of a religion do not post distortions, lies, and propaganda to damage it.

You do.

That's your fact-free opinion, exactly the "no-true-Scotsman" fallacy, substituting "Jew" for "Scotsman", of course :)

You've painted yourself into a corner here, haven't you? You couldda ignored me, but noooo.......You're such a PURE JEW that you think my Jewishness isn't even human...a Jew treating another Jew like a Goy, ffs :)
 

Mcgyver

Diamond
Joined
Aug 5, 2005
Location
Toronto
People who are actually of a religion do not post distortions, lies, and propaganda
.

How else would you know it was religion? Explain to us exactly what you think there is about any religion that isn't simply distortions, lies and propaganda
 

dcsipo

Diamond
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
Baldwin, MD/USA
That's your fact-free opinion, exactly the "no-true-Scotsman" fallacy, substituting "Jew" for "Scotsman", of course :)

You've painted yourself into a corner here, haven't you? You couldda ignored me, but noooo.......You're such a PURE JEW that you think my Jewishness isn't even human...a Jew treating another Jew like a Goy, ffs :)

Your rabbi must be really proud of you. Are you here to agitate people? Did you think what you do is not offensive? You said there is a difference between private and public expression...let me let you in on a little secret, this is not your shower where you can sing anything. Thank your lucky stars that this is still in effect Section 230 - Wikipedia
 

Milling man

Cast Iron
Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Location
Moscow, Russia
Dear colleagues, I decided to write a few words in this thread to bring a drop of information about this situation from Russia.
If this is a "US-only" party, I'm sorry, the administration will probably just delete this message.
1. Unfortunately, in my opinion (I think I understand something in military affairs, my father served in the army for quite a long time and taught me something), Ukraine has absolutely no chance to survive in this war. They don't even have a chance to inflict unacceptable losses on the Russian army. I'm sorry, but it is.
2. The Ukrainian army found itself in a very difficult position. Where are the most combat-ready parts of the army in a country in which there has been a war for 8 years? Of course, on the front line! And these forces, the most combat-ready, were practically cut off from the rest of the country by flank attacks by the Russian Armed Forces. Most likely, these units will not be able, or almost not able, to take part in the defense of the rest of the country. The troops that are located in the rear are obviously worse trained.
3. It should be noted that Putin does not give a damn about the losses of his army. Against the most combat-ready units of the Ukrainian army (in the region of Ukraine, where the war has been going on for 8 years), as many troops as possible from local separatists are used. The Russian army inflicts air strikes and artillery strikes in these places, but minimally participates in the operation on the ground. Such a slow advance of separatist forces on this sector of the front is also connected with etif - about 2-5 kilometers per day.
4. A little more on the topic of losses. I argued for a long time on this topic with my girlfriend. I said that if Czechoslovakia (and it is with it that I have the first analogy when I think about this invasion) in 1968 did not raise its paws, but fought, the USSR would have retreated. But my girlfriend objected to me - what if he had not backed down? Czechoslovakia would have lost perhaps a few million people killed, and in return would have received the same control from the USSR, only with much more embittered conscience soldiers and a ruined country.
I think my analogy is clear. My first impulse is to "bite my teeth into the ground and fight to the last." But what if Putin doesn't care about losses? What if there is no realistic number of losses for the Russian army, at which this crazy old man will say "that's it, stop, we won't go further"? This is a difficult question .... You can talk long and beautifully about how the Poles fought the Germans to the last and about Winston Churchill's famous speech "We will fight them on the beaches", but when it comes to saving the lives of you and your family, given the very uncertain prospect of victory, these arguments are no longer so beautiful. I well understand the motivation of the Soviet soldiers in the battle for Moscow in 1941 (when the Germans saw the center of Moscow through binoculars), but I do not understand the motivation of the German soldiers in the battle for Berlin in 1945.
5. As Ukrainian President Zelensky and Turkish President Erdogan correctly noted, all that NATO has done to help Ukraine is ridiculous arms deliveries and many words of support. To be fair, Turkey hasn't done more, but at least Erdogan has been honest and direct about it. I don't understand this behavior. NATO had the opportunity to stop the Russian army by proxy - just an ideal option. Ukraine is a rather large country with a population of 40 million people, and these are not savages with sticks at all. If you give them modern weapons and train them, in 8 years you could create a force that Putin would be afraid to fight. Yes, Ukraine is by no means a rich country - so give them weapons, as under the Lend-Lease program! Give them planes, give them air defense systems, give them tanks. Or is it better to pay for these savings with the lives of NATO soldiers in the future?
6. If I were a citizen of Ukraine, I would be very dissatisfied with my presidents. Yes, life has turned out so that we live next to the aggressive Mordor - so let's take this into account in our policy!? Remembering the Black Mirror episode - if it saves lives, it's worth fucking a pig live. Ukraine had no realistic chance of regaining Crimea and Donbass - so wouldn't it be better to give up claims to them under the threat of invasion? Talking about honor is fine, but a nerd won't gain honor if he doesn't give money to a jock right away, but after a couple of broken ribs. All the honor in the world is not worth a single human life. Another question is that there is no guarantee that Putin would have calmed down on this. As Churchill said, "Between war and dishonor, we have chosen dishonor, and we will get dishonor and war."
7. On the attitude of Russians to the war. You need to understand that in Russia there is a very strong social stratification depending on the place on the map. This naturally leads to very different political views. In Moscow, as far as I can tell, most people are against this war. In general, in all of Russia, I'm not sure. Posldenie sociological surveys showed that the Russians are unambiguously against the war. But when you are asked if you want war, you would rather think about enemy bombing and that you will be sent to attack under the threat of being shot, and not about the "small victorious war" (as Putin imagines it, and how he wants to present it to the Russians ).
 

dcsipo

Diamond
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
Baldwin, MD/USA
Explain to us exactly what you think there is about any religion that isn't simply distortions, lies and propaganda

Take it from an atheist :) Well, it is everything against the religion :)...In the meantime, you may want to rethink what you will do with that can opener in your hand. Did you read the label on the can?

I would say if you take away the mythology, religion can be distilled into some form of guidance for morality.
 

Milland

Diamond
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Location
Hillsboro, New Hampshire
Dear colleagues, I decided to write a few words in this thread to bring a drop of information about this situation from Russia.
If this is a "US-only" party, I'm sorry, the administration will probably just delete this message.

Your post shouldn't (won't) be removed, it's well thought out and presented. I also think most of it is as I see things too, which is unfortunate in it's finality.

There are so many Western missteps that have lead to this day, so damn few people actually care to read history and learn from it!!
 

Milland

Diamond
Joined
Jul 6, 2006
Location
Hillsboro, New Hampshire
How else would you know it was religion? Explain to us exactly what you think there is about any religion that isn't simply distortions, lies and propaganda

That's a seperate matter, and not unreasonable to consider. But it would more apply to "outside" experiance of any religion, of any flavor, rather than a so-called "insider".

FWIW (and I've said this before), I'm not religious. I'm Jewish by heritage, but don't observe. I've read enough history and seen enough acts by so-called religious folk of many persuasions to know that there's quite a gulf between writings/dogma and acts on the ground.

Somewhat like a Russian leader claiming self defense as he stabs an unarmed child to death.
 

dcsipo

Diamond
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
Baldwin, MD/USA
Posted your entire message so they both have to be removed :)...I do not agree with everything you say, but it is important to preserve a different point of view. I would like to know at what point public outrage over the coffins coming home will boil over in the streets of Russian cities. I fear for both countries. Too high a price to pay for a vanity project. Do young Russians really believe that NATO is going to attack them?


Dear colleagues, I decided to write a few words in this thread to bring a drop of information about this situation from Russia.
If this is a "US-only" party, I'm sorry, the administration will probably just delete this message.
1. Unfortunately, in my opinion (I think I understand something in military affairs, my father served in the army for quite a long time and taught me something), Ukraine has absolutely no chance to survive in this war. They don't even have a chance to inflict unacceptable losses on the Russian army. I'm sorry, but it is.
2. The Ukrainian army found itself in a very difficult position. Where are the most combat-ready parts of the army in a country in which there has been a war for 8 years? Of course, on the front line! And these forces, the most combat-ready, were practically cut off from the rest of the country by flank attacks by the Russian Armed Forces. Most likely, these units will not be able, or almost not able, to take part in the defense of the rest of the country. The troops that are located in the rear are obviously worse trained.
3. It should be noted that Putin does not give a damn about the losses of his army. Against the most combat-ready units of the Ukrainian army (in the region of Ukraine, where the war has been going on for 8 years), as many troops as possible from local separatists are used. The Russian army inflicts air strikes and artillery strikes in these places, but minimally participates in the operation on the ground. Such a slow advance of separatist forces on this sector of the front is also connected with etif - about 2-5 kilometers per day.
4. A little more on the topic of losses. I argued for a long time on this topic with my girlfriend. I said that if Czechoslovakia (and it is with it that I have the first analogy when I think about this invasion) in 1968 did not raise its paws, but fought, the USSR would have retreated. But my girlfriend objected to me - what if he had not backed down? Czechoslovakia would have lost perhaps a few million people killed, and in return would have received the same control from the USSR, only with much more embittered conscience soldiers and a ruined country.
I think my analogy is clear. My first impulse is to "bite my teeth into the ground and fight to the last." But what if Putin doesn't care about losses? What if there is no realistic number of losses for the Russian army, at which this crazy old man will say "that's it, stop, we won't go further"? This is a difficult question .... You can talk long and beautifully about how the Poles fought the Germans to the last and about Winston Churchill's famous speech "We will fight them on the beaches", but when it comes to saving the lives of you and your family, given the very uncertain prospect of victory, these arguments are no longer so beautiful. I well understand the motivation of the Soviet soldiers in the battle for Moscow in 1941 (when the Germans saw the center of Moscow through binoculars), but I do not understand the motivation of the German soldiers in the battle for Berlin in 1945.
5. As Ukrainian President Zelensky and Turkish President Erdogan correctly noted, all that NATO has done to help Ukraine is ridiculous arms deliveries and many words of support. To be fair, Turkey hasn't done more, but at least Erdogan has been honest and direct about it. I don't understand this behavior. NATO had the opportunity to stop the Russian army by proxy - just an ideal option. Ukraine is a rather large country with a population of 40 million people, and these are not savages with sticks at all. If you give them modern weapons and train them, in 8 years you could create a force that Putin would be afraid to fight. Yes, Ukraine is by no means a rich country - so give them weapons, as under the Lend-Lease program! Give them planes, give them air defense systems, give them tanks. Or is it better to pay for these savings with the lives of NATO soldiers in the future?
6. If I were a citizen of Ukraine, I would be very dissatisfied with my presidents. Yes, life has turned out so that we live next to the aggressive Mordor - so let's take this into account in our policy!? Remembering the Black Mirror episode - if it saves lives, it's worth fucking a pig live. Ukraine had no realistic chance of regaining Crimea and Donbass - so wouldn't it be better to give up claims to them under the threat of invasion? Talking about honor is fine, but a nerd won't gain honor if he doesn't give money to a jock right away, but after a couple of broken ribs. All the honor in the world is not worth a single human life. Another question is that there is no guarantee that Putin would have calmed down on this. As Churchill said, "Between war and dishonor, we have chosen dishonor, and we will get dishonor and war."
7. On the attitude of Russians to the war. You need to understand that in Russia there is a very strong social stratification depending on the place on the map. This naturally leads to very different political views. In Moscow, as far as I can tell, most people are against this war. In general, in all of Russia, I'm not sure. Posldenie sociological surveys showed that the Russians are unambiguously against the war. But when you are asked if you want war, you would rather think about enemy bombing and that you will be sent to attack under the threat of being shot, and not about the "small victorious war" (as Putin imagines it, and how he wants to present it to the Russians ).
 

empower

Titanium
Joined
Sep 8, 2018
Location
Novi, MI
Dear colleagues, I decided to write a few words in this thread to bring a drop of information about this situation from Russia.
If this is a "US-only" party, I'm sorry, the administration will probably just delete this message.
1. Unfortunately, in my opinion (I think I understand something in military affairs, my father served in the army for quite a long time and taught me something), Ukraine has absolutely no chance to survive in this war. They don't even have a chance to inflict unacceptable losses on the Russian army. I'm sorry, but it is.
2. The Ukrainian army found itself in a very difficult position. Where are the most combat-ready parts of the army in a country in which there has been a war for 8 years? Of course, on the front line! And these forces, the most combat-ready, were practically cut off from the rest of the country by flank attacks by the Russian Armed Forces. Most likely, these units will not be able, or almost not able, to take part in the defense of the rest of the country. The troops that are located in the rear are obviously worse trained.
3. It should be noted that Putin does not give a damn about the losses of his army. Against the most combat-ready units of the Ukrainian army (in the region of Ukraine, where the war has been going on for 8 years), as many troops as possible from local separatists are used. The Russian army inflicts air strikes and artillery strikes in these places, but minimally participates in the operation on the ground. Such a slow advance of separatist forces on this sector of the front is also connected with etif - about 2-5 kilometers per day.
4. A little more on the topic of losses. I argued for a long time on this topic with my girlfriend. I said that if Czechoslovakia (and it is with it that I have the first analogy when I think about this invasion) in 1968 did not raise its paws, but fought, the USSR would have retreated. But my girlfriend objected to me - what if he had not backed down? Czechoslovakia would have lost perhaps a few million people killed, and in return would have received the same control from the USSR, only with much more embittered conscience soldiers and a ruined country.
I think my analogy is clear. My first impulse is to "bite my teeth into the ground and fight to the last." But what if Putin doesn't care about losses? What if there is no realistic number of losses for the Russian army, at which this crazy old man will say "that's it, stop, we won't go further"? This is a difficult question .... You can talk long and beautifully about how the Poles fought the Germans to the last and about Winston Churchill's famous speech "We will fight them on the beaches", but when it comes to saving the lives of you and your family, given the very uncertain prospect of victory, these arguments are no longer so beautiful. I well understand the motivation of the Soviet soldiers in the battle for Moscow in 1941 (when the Germans saw the center of Moscow through binoculars), but I do not understand the motivation of the German soldiers in the battle for Berlin in 1945.
5. As Ukrainian President Zelensky and Turkish President Erdogan correctly noted, all that NATO has done to help Ukraine is ridiculous arms deliveries and many words of support. To be fair, Turkey hasn't done more, but at least Erdogan has been honest and direct about it. I don't understand this behavior. NATO had the opportunity to stop the Russian army by proxy - just an ideal option. Ukraine is a rather large country with a population of 40 million people, and these are not savages with sticks at all. If you give them modern weapons and train them, in 8 years you could create a force that Putin would be afraid to fight. Yes, Ukraine is by no means a rich country - so give them weapons, as under the Lend-Lease program! Give them planes, give them air defense systems, give them tanks. Or is it better to pay for these savings with the lives of NATO soldiers in the future?
6. If I were a citizen of Ukraine, I would be very dissatisfied with my presidents. Yes, life has turned out so that we live next to the aggressive Mordor - so let's take this into account in our policy!? Remembering the Black Mirror episode - if it saves lives, it's worth fucking a pig live. Ukraine had no realistic chance of regaining Crimea and Donbass - so wouldn't it be better to give up claims to them under the threat of invasion? Talking about honor is fine, but a nerd won't gain honor if he doesn't give money to a jock right away, but after a couple of broken ribs. All the honor in the world is not worth a single human life. Another question is that there is no guarantee that Putin would have calmed down on this. As Churchill said, "Between war and dishonor, we have chosen dishonor, and we will get dishonor and war."
7. On the attitude of Russians to the war. You need to understand that in Russia there is a very strong social stratification depending on the place on the map. This naturally leads to very different political views. In Moscow, as far as I can tell, most people are against this war. In general, in all of Russia, I'm not sure. Posldenie sociological surveys showed that the Russians are unambiguously against the war. But when you are asked if you want war, you would rather think about enemy bombing and that you will be sent to attack under the threat of being shot, and not about the "small victorious war" (as Putin imagines it, and how he wants to present it to the Russians ).

go fuck yourself, filthy propagandist.
 

thermite

Diamond
Dear colleagues, I decided to write a few words in this thread to bring a drop of information about this situation from Russia.
If this is a "US-only" party, I'm sorry, the administration will probably just delete this message.
Words from dying cultures should be preserved for later historical analysis as to how and why they declined.

So, no.. it will probably be allowed to stand.
As Churchill said, "Between war and dishonor, we have chosen dishonor, and we will get dishonor and war."

As Putin has actually ACTED, The Russian Federation chose deception, dishonour and war. More than just the one time.

He entered the latest of his many foolish wars with an economy of a size between Texas and Florida.

That has already dropped to between Florida and Pennsylvania. It will continue to decline, further. That is not a "J-curve". There is no future upside.

Tsar Stalputler may have kept it off YOUR TV screen, but China has now shut-off hard-currency denominated commodity transactions with the Russian Federation:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...ks-restrict-financing-for-russian-commodities

Russia will now pay China in Yuan. Only.
And be paid for Russian commodities in Yuan. Only.

At prices China sets. Of course.

Go figure.. this is where the Grand Duchy of Muscovy came in with "Prince" Alexander, nick-named "Nevsky".

Mad Vlad has taken you back to once again being serfs to the "Golden Horde".

Seemed like a good idea at the time.
Asians didn't want to deal directly with your insane levels of congenital criminal corruption.

Seems like an even better idea, now.
Same reason.

Not as if the average Russian serf had to be asked for an "opinion" back in the day.

Nor since.

After all, to a Chinese, "Western Europeans" are barbarians, barely tolerated.

Russians are merely subhuman, classed with the other quasi-domesticated animals.

That's far less of a strain on Chinese sensibilities, and an obviously short-term one by long-range China's viewpoint. It is poor health and the Russian birthrate, so very far below replacement that writes your doom, actually. With control of the temporary Russian Empire's spaces back in their ancestral hands, Chinese can again enjoy a healthy birthrate.

As they will.

Russia's serfs / cannon-fodder should adapt well-enough, given your own elites have treated you the same since earliest days.

改變的事情越多,它們越多了

寄件者
 

CalG

Diamond
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Location
Vt USA
Putin should have dressed his army in "refugee clothes" ( a phone and a UN filled credit card) and just walked, or boated them into Ukrainia. The entire western world would have made Zelenski accept them. It seems to work everywhere else.

Breaking Ukraine sovereignty is just a another step in breaking nations. All for One World Government, and the New World Order! The only resistance is some misapplied nationalism (the devil you know is better than the one you don't) and a few high rolling scum losing out on a money washer.

All Part of the plan.

And don't forget the fear... be very afraid! And give up all YOUR rights to those who promise security.

Ha Ha ha ha

Have the Canadians recovered from their private tyranny yet?

Don't forget, all the famous oligarchs are aging out. They are likely impatient to see a return on their power dominance.
 

Freedommachine

Stainless
Joined
May 13, 2020
Dear colleagues, I decided to write a few words in this thread to bring a drop of information about this situation from Russia.
If this is a "US-only" party, I'm sorry, the administration will probably just delete this message.

I don't entirely agree with your assessment but only because it doesn't leave much room for factors yet unknown.

If the Russian military were willing to expend all resources on this conflict? Then yes, I think it will become a vary dire situation for everyone involved and economies worldwide. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts on the situation.
 

dcsipo

Diamond
Joined
Oct 13, 2014
Location
Baldwin, MD/USA
I don't think it's just propaganda. It's not "good" to read, but it feels realistic and not only a political message.

I hope it turns out that much of it is wrong. But I am a cynic and tend to see more bad outcomes than good ones.

I agree, not a good read, but it is a read of what the Russian public is getting as information. Empower is highly invested in the conflict, and he finds the information really offensive. Millingman seems to be somewhat open-minded, but probably guided what he sees on Russian media. Given the gravity of this subject, this community needs to keep this thread as civil as possible.
 

EmGo

Diamond
Joined
Apr 14, 2018
Location
Over the River and Through the Woods
Do young Russians really believe that NATO is going to attack them?
If they have any sense they do because that's what the US does. That's what the US has done for the past two hundred years and that's what the US intends to do for the next two hundred years. Plan for a New American Century ... it never went away. That's what the Beltway still thinks, and Joey has been a part of that all his life. If your country does not lie down and put its butt in the air for a good reaming, then we will crush you.

I have no idea why but if you don't suck up to Washington DC they will spend billions upon billions to make your country's life hell. The government of the US is mentally diseased (plus they can't even run their own show, but they think they have the right to tell other people what to do.)

Ukraine is getting what it deserves. If you live next door to a rabid pit bull, the last thing you do if you have an IQ over ten is go over and poke him with a stick. Feeding him treats might have been a smarter approach, since they obviously can't move away.
 

Straightedge

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 17, 2009
Location
Germany/California
Your rabbi must be really proud of you. Are you here to agitate people? Did you think what you do is not offensive? You said there is a difference between private and public expression...let me let you in on a little secret, this is not your shower where you can sing anything. Thank your lucky stars that this is still in effect Section 230 - Wikipedia

lol, these shit-show threads are 98% heat and 2% light; pissing off the usual suspects and expanding the Overton window is just part of the fun. Do you actually take this nonsense seriously? Cuz I don't. Of course, you've been deep-throating the covid story, so maybe this is bullshit in the Ukraine seems serious to you instead of what it actually is: a pre-planned, made-for-TV hostile corporate takeover that serves the oligarch banker agenda.

Anyway, before I was a Jew, I used to think they're obnoxious. Now I'm just another obnoxious Jew. Ironic? Maybe a little. I have different views about the outward-facing and esoteric views. As I've learned, the Jewish religion is really about forwarding our people. Milland expresses his version of it, saying he's a Jew but not religious. He's a *racial* Jew, but you'll notice that while he might not attend synogogue, his outward actions toward the goy are indistinguishable from the devout. So, while many Jews push the idea there's just one race (the human race), privately, (and particularly in Israel) there is huge emphasis placed on preserving the Ashkenazi and Sephardic lines. We recognize that a true nation is connected by blood--it is an extended family. I simply see that we Jews are running the show at this point and there's no reason to try to hide the fact.

If you haven't figured it out yet, it boils down to this:
TheGovernment.jpg
 

Freedommachine

Stainless
Joined
May 13, 2020
I agree, not a good read, but it is a read of what the Russian public is getting as information. Empower is highly invested in the conflict, and he finds the information really offensive. Millingman seems to be somewhat open-minded, but probably guided what he sees on Russian media. Given the gravity of this subject, this community needs to keep this thread as civil as possible.

Sounds like a fair assessment to me. The individual people suffering in this war is where my allegiance lies. Governments have been shipping off citizens to die in useless war for far to long.

Imagine how quickly things would improve if the assets of each nation were used to remove criminals and Oligarchs rather than killing each other.

I will forever oppose NWO globalist tyrants and criminal oligarch thugs.
 
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