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Hurco VMX 42i Vs Doosan DNM S 5700 Vs YCM NSV 106AM

Yes your are correct, I had asked for similar comparisons last year as well. The plan back then was changed & we had to postpone the purchase of machine by a year as the company had to buy few moulding machines for production. Production machines quite often are given priority over a toolroom machine. However, now we are quite certain to buy the machine so the views shared on this forum in past & present shall assist us in making decision in a big way.
 
Well, aren't we biased for Makino? LOL. Rightfully so, they are great machines. But, again, you are underestimating us. You put words in my mouth. I never said our machines were "GREAT". They are just very good and we can hold our own. And what's wrong with a plain-jane Fanuc? Do you want a machine that cuts parts or one where you need not worry about the control breaking down? Well, you have your opinion and I came on here to help the OP answer his questions, not to get into a flame war with someone I could give two shits about.

I bought a Doosan Lynx 220lsyc and have been extremely impressed with the quality of the machine and dealer/Doosan America support. Aside from being a quality machine the price couldn't be beat. The 5700 will definitely be my next purchase.
 
Funny, before I accepted my current position I was in negotiations with doosan for I guess a technical sales position I'm only 15 minutes from them...I was thinking oh I can go on pm and help people lol. I've heard many good things about them never personally used one. I do hate fanuc controls though, horrible navigation...they can shove their soft keys. :)
 
Radar87, are you sure about the Makino outperforming everything? I believe the YCM NSV series is more or less a clone of the Makino PS series. The Makino has more continuous spindle power by far, but that isn't needed for most mold making operations unless you're doing huge steel parts.

From my experience with the Doosan DNM 5700, thermal expansion of the spindle and headstock casting is not noticeable during machining. I probe my vises and check my offsets often, and the spindle chiller than comes with the machine seems to prevent growth in both Z and Y. Having coolant through the spindle might also help. I'll start recording my work offsets at different temperatures to see the exact expansion when I get a chance.

Floyd, the glass scales on the Doosan will help maintain tong term accuracy and will prevent thermal growth over the work envelope of the machine. However, they will not eliminate backlash like a double ball nut will.

The YCM machine has 1g acceleration. I believe the Hurco and the Doosan are about 0.3g (this is sort of the "unlisted standard" for 40 taper machines with Fanuc motors). If the machine tool builder does not advertise the acceleration of the machine axes, it is generally safe to assume it isn't that impressive. Having 3x the acceleration will really speed up contouring and reversals in mold work. I think the YCM machine would stay accurate for the longest time and produce molds with the lowest cycle time compared to the Doosan and the Hurco. The Doosan will always have good positioning accuracy because of the glass scales, but will develop witness marks from backlash in reversal. The Hurco has neither so it will perform more like a general purpose/job shop VMC than a mold making machine.

I should mention there is one other brand you may not have heard with a mold machine that combines all of these benefits; the Quaser MV184-M. You can get it with glass scales, it has more than 1g axis acceleration, the spindle does 24,000 RPM, and it built similarly to the other machines. I don't know how much it costs but I got a quote for one of their lrager machines that was an incredible value. Floyd, you may want to contact Quaser if it's an option.

Personally I would go with the Doosan in your situation since it's the cheapest by a significant margin and you know there is at least some local support. I think the YCM or Quaser mold machines will be much faster on long cycles. If you have cheap labor and low overhead costs (you are in India right?) I don't know how strong your incentives are to save on cycle time.

Hello Generic ,

Thanks for your response few days ago. Yes indeed Doosan DNM 5700 S seems to be most reasonable choice at the moment. Specially considering DNM's rigid structure & price. The review for DNM is coming out quite nice in India as well. It was to my surprise that few companies who are making good quality compression & injection moulds are already using DNM & have given repeat orders as well. Although, DNM doesn't have double nut ball screw & has smaller ball screw as compared to Makino & YCM but still it is able to reach out mold makers quite well.
We haven't met anyone from Quaser but we did come across a dealer for Hardinge V1000. The machine has very interesting specs & is only 8-10K USD more in price from Doosan DNM. They are offering
-15000 RPM oil-air mist spindle with chiller.
-This machine also has double nut & 45 mm ball screw similar to Makino PS 105.
-Controller is Mitsubishi M80 which has look ahead of 1370 blocks & block processing speed of 2500 blocks per sec. Can this be better than upgraded Fanuc Oi with 400 blocks look ahead?
- It has 6 trucks (Support blocks) in X & Z axis & 4 in y axis which is again very similar to Makino PS or YCM NSV.
-BUT this machine comes with ball type LM guideways instead of roller type as offered by all other makes under consideration. What was strange that they have Hardinge GX series which is a lesser machine but that offers roller guideways & V series doesn't. Hardinge claims that ball guideways used in V series is superior than Roller guideways used in GX series. It doesn't make much sense as we believe rollers guideways will always have better life. But may be someone knows if they have adopted some special design for their ball guideways system.

Thanks
 
Balls or rollers is one of about 10 details to consider with linear ways, don't get hung up on it. You need to know the other 9ish details to compare.
 
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Above are few pictures received from Hardinge for V 1000 model showing ball guideway system.
Can anyone comment on the possibility of this ball guideway system being better than roller guideway system as provided in Doosan DNM 5700?

Other than guideways , Specification wise Hardinge V 1000 seems to be more sound. It does have double nut with bigger 45mm ball screw +linear glass scale+6 trucks on X & Z axis. Hardinge is also offering Mitsubishi M80 (1370 look ahead) which they claim to be better than upgraded Fanuc Oi MF (400 look ahead) as offered in Doosan DNM machines.

Support wise, we do think Doosan shall be bit better than hardinge in our area.
We are now limiting our choice to above two machines i.e. Hardinge V1000 or Doosan DNM 5700 S as they are most reasonably priced.
 
It doesn't matter what linear system you use....it will never be more rigid than the frame it's bolted to. That's how the 560 wins the rigidity game, the C frame design will never perform as well as a similar sized dual column.
 
Above are few pictures received from Hardinge for V 1000 model showing ball guideway system.
Can anyone comment on the possibility of this ball guideway system being better than roller guideway system as provided in Doosan DNM 5700?
Find out exactly what rails and blocks each manufacturer is using, including the acuracy level they are finished to, and look up the load capacity. It isn't rocket sience, just research. Roller ways have a few advantages, one being the bolt spacing in the rails is half that of ball rails. But how they are installed can make a huge difference, as well as what they are bolted to. 35mm rails on the X axis are not that big, my old drill/tap mill has 28mm rails. What is in your brochure is just eye candy, it doesn't really tell you much at all. To get the info you need to make an informed decision will really make the salesman squeal and whine.
 
It doesn't matter what linear system you use....it will never be more rigid than the frame it's bolted to. That's how the 560 wins the rigidity game, the C frame design will never perform as well as a similar sized dual column.
I have 2 30 taper drill/tap mills, one with a fixed table and the other is a C frame, both have the same travels and weigh 8,000 lbs. The C frame is 15? times more rigid, maybe more.
 
I have 2 30 taper drill/tap mills, one with a fixed table and the other is a C frame, both have the same travels and weigh 8,000 lbs. The C frame is 15? times more rigid, maybe more.

So you're saying the machine with all 3 axis of freedom concentrated in one location is less rigid than one that has them separated? Ya don't say...

Guess what the DMG design with the Y on the column is dumb too, it's known as the diving board. You saying your C frame is better than a bad design doesn't mean the c frame is better than a dual column...or even that good.

Dual columns including the 560 have drawbacks but they are a more rigid design than cantilevering all that mass off a column.
 








 
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