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I had to save this puppy FP2NC

Martin P

Stainless
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
Germany in the middle towards the left
Yes i am disturbed, no need to tell me again. I do not need this machine, I did not want that control, the machine is too small anyway.
And yet .......20km from my shop, trade school machine, condition, dwindeling price,.......my restraint is not super-human. I caved.
This is a very very late FP2NC, an actual 'NC', not A, or MA or ME or similar pedestrian machine.

Advertisement picture:

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Today I picked it up:

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Since the machine was without power since August, I was expecting the parameters to be lost, but they were still there.
Odd start-up procedure with the Heidenhain, where one first has to cancel error messages. Also says so in the manual.
To run the spindle one first has to push the Tool button and set the speed.
Learning this will be interesting and confusing! Not intuitive,

The electrical cabinet is the huge closet directly behind machine.

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The head tilt is impressive. Even the gas shock works. But no quill on horizontal.
The school says they never had it in horizontal.
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I do not understand the spindle drive so far. There seems to be a 2 stage gearbox, hydraulicly engaged, and then a variable drive, but not really. So speeds must be programmed?
S1 and S2 ranges are chosen via parameter table? I am still in the confused state, but it worked. Have not found any defects yet.
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I do like that it has the option for the 4th axis prep. Since it has AC servos (very quiet) I happen to have NOS rotary table and NC indexer for this machine. I also have the SM Bosch drive I need to attache for the 4th axis.

Still I do not need this machine, so if you are a dentist building steam engines in your basement, I think you need to buy this from me.

But first I need to get in some serious play-time.
 

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joaquin suave

Plastic
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Location
Central California
Please don't be hard on yourself by confessing your sins and starting a "12 step" program.

I have 3 FP1's, that I just "have" (I have used one only to drill one hole) because I LIKE THEM! Quite rare beasts over here in Kalifornia.

My wife teases me and call's them my "shop porn"! :D
 

DeadMahoDude

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
No quill on horizontal is a good thing, actually.
Horizontal spindle with quill on Dialog4 FP2NC is quite flimsy and gets stuck at high rpm due to centrifugal expansion.
Wall thickness on spindle drawings is marginal at places, because drawbar, spindle, bearings and quill has to fit into small space,

Horizontal spindle on my FP4NC with D11 is build like a tank, can shred steel with 20mm endmill, 40mm deep and with 5mm engagement on the side, something the D4/FP2NC spindle likely wouldn't survive for long.

Overall D11 machines are quite a bit more sopphisticated than D4, apart from that unnecessarily large electrical cabinett....

How much did you pay for it?
 

DeadMahoDude

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Great price, for a fully functional machine with almost no hours on it.

Maybe spent about that much on surface plate, biax, bronze, spindle grinder... for my 550€ wreck FP2NC, until it was usable again...
Lesson from that, not the best idea to go for cheapest, although you learn a lot fixing it.
 

Martin P

Stainless
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
Germany in the middle towards the left
Geometry checks out perfect.
I notice the fast feed will cause an emergency stop. Mmmmh.......Bosch tune?
The enclosure needs some undenting, windows and seals. And hinges (one is actually home made).
The operator consol is bent weirdly (can be fixed, sheet metal housing)
There is a high pitch whine near the spindle motor at some speeds.
Where the heck do I plug in the centering scope?
It is missing the horizontal spindle cover, the part manual and original operator manuals (copies only)
One fan in the cabinet is dead (I only have 8 spares).
I'd love an infrared Heidenhain touch probe set-up. €€€$$$
I already got the ISO keyboard an the excellent Heidenhain manuals off EBay.

That is the list as of today.
 

Martin P

Stainless
Joined
Aug 12, 2004
Location
Germany in the middle towards the left
Well its been hard to do much of anything only being home on weekends the last 12 years.
If I stopped something on Sunday afternoon to drive to work, I would have forgotten where I stopped by the time I got back on Friday.
But now that I am retired I intend to stop collecting and fixing to be a lot more productive in making.
When I was younger I made some parts for classic cars and sold them to dealers. It was very rewarding and I enjoyed walking over some car show in some other country and see my parts installed on cars.

But show us your parts!
 

Kees

Hot Rolled
Joined
Feb 2, 2007
Location
Netherlands
I think my costumers won't be happy finding their stuff on the internet so I have to be carefull with that. ( most work I do is for industrial production plants)

If I would ever retire I would mostly stop making things for others and doing more work for myself. I have lots of machinery and project I just don't have the time for it right now.
 

DeadMahoDude

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Could you perhaps try something for me, with this control?
I'm trying to get my new old Reiden BF1 with TNC155 back into action, but there seems something wrong with the machine interface electronics/PLC, I guess.
TNC155 seems very similar/identical to 355.

Machine is powered up, it goes "STROMUNTERBRECHUNG", I press "CE" and it goes directly into manual mode, without testing Not-Aus wiring, like they normally do.
Can't switch the power electronics either, spindle drive is active from start (no extra relay in between) but servo drive remains without power, if I press power on button according to manual.
Pressing "Not-Aus" knob also does nothing.

What I found out, you can show PLC I/O states on the TNC155/355.
Press "MOD" after "STROMUNTERBRECHUNG" appears on screen, without pressing "CE"
Then enter "SCHLÜSSELZAHL" => 901026 and you get listing of PLC code, PLC-editor or PLC input/output, by pressing the mode selection buttons on the bottom, (those buttons with red LED above).
If you get "TABELLE E/A/Z/T/M", you are in I/O display mode, press CR, RND, CT, CC, C, buttons on top for PLC inputs, outputs, zähler/counter, timer, marker, respectively.


The weird part is that I only get "0" display for input/output, on the TNC155. There was a short on the PL110B PLC boards when I got the machine as broken, a couple of shorted tantalum capacitors, which are very well known for doing that. Replaced them and expected a working machine.
0V/24V logic signals are present on PL110B terminal strips all around.
PL110B boards are getting 24VDC too, regulated 12VDC for the electronics/chips is there too, yet only "0" on TNC155 I/O display.

Could you try it on your FP2NC and see, if it shows PLC input/outputs right after power up?
If so, guess there is something wrong with interface electronics,wiring or a problem on PL110B boards.

Weird thing is that the machine appeared to have worked before, although the voltage regulator on PL110B boards got toasted because of those shorted tantalum caps.
 
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jz79

Stainless
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
what the parameter table looks like? MOD>code:95148

I don't recall which set of parameters was it, but you most certainly can turn off axis supervision via MP, which will bypass the axis alignment on startup
 

DeadMahoDude

Aluminum
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Parameters are loaded, got lost during shipping, put in new batteries, typed parameters by hand, from sheet that came with the machine.
PLC code gets loaded from EPROM too, can see it in PLC edit mode.

Weird thing is also that heidenhain scale readout isn't working either, TNC155 just sits there and displays "0.000" on all axis, even if I move Y-axis ballscrew with wrench on the back.
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
THere are parameters that turn on or off the homing sequence. Perhaps it shuts off the counting if the axis are disabled. I think not but perhaps. Nevertheless, correcting the parameter so that it requires homing is a start
 

jz79

Stainless
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Could you try it on your FP2NC and see, if it shows PLC input/outputs right after power up?
If so, guess there is something wrong with interface electronics,wiring or a problem on PL110B boards.

Weird thing is that the machine appeared to have worked before, although the voltage regulator on PL110B boards got toasted because of those shorted tantalum caps.
if you power up the machine, and do not clear first error message (interrupted power), and press MOD>code:951026, then the E and A tables are empty - IO isn't initialized yet, once you clear that error message, it should go to axis alignment screen (if the MP are set accordingly), and if you go into the E/A/... screen now, input and output states should be visible

not sure about how that machine is wired up, but both Fehlmann (tnc155) and Mikron (tnc355) I have also require you to press Feed Enabled button on the machines button panel (not tnc) after initial startup (and after pressing/releasing Emergency Stop), there is also indication of that state on the default screen, in the bottom line there is a letter "F", if it is black F on bright background - feed is disabled, press Feed Enable to enable it, the F inverts to bright letter on dark background and should also show the set feed speed

having more than 1 tantalum shorted seems quite unlikely to happen "naturally", it is easy to make them fail by reversing supply voltage though, were there any signs of someone attempting repairs on the PS or the boards previously?

a photo of parameters would be helpful to get better understanding of why it is bypassing the axis check
edit: just remembered there was also something about the feed on-screen indicator in the parameters, so, maybe, depending on how parameters set, my previous clue about the feed enable indication on the screen may not be true in your case
 

gustafson

Diamond
Joined
Sep 4, 2002
Location
People's Republic
As does everything if you don't RTFM

See what parameter 72 is
I would thing 0 [no inhibited axis]or 8 [IV inhibited]
anything else, like 7 or 15 would mean that those axis are not active.
Might be displayed as binary
 

jz79

Stainless
Joined
Mar 21, 2017
Just let me know what exactly to do and check for, right now I am confused what that excatly is.
The control is still very confusing to me (and partly it seems very convoluted and downright Rube Goldbergy).
155/355 was the first industrial CNC controller I learned by myself, with manuals from Heidenhain site mostly, and it doesn't seem too complicated to be honest, haven't seen much yet that made no sense, manuals aren't well written, maybe because I read them in English, which they are translated to from German I presume, they seem more like supplemental material, something you can look at while attending a class, but I managed to figure most stuff out

I have yet to turn on and start to learn the Siemens 410 machine, and another one with Fanuc 16 on it, haven't heard much praise for either, but people generally seem to dislike the Siemens, and Fanuc users seem split, some like, some hate it
 








 
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