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I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe.

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
”Why, is there a dispute of facts here?” Lol Everybody has their facts either side of a argument and that is what we usually see. Two opposing sides.
You yourself have pointed out in the past that you felt the US wrongly invaded too. So Scott thinks that it is a fact Western countries and NATO are driving that. People do believe it. There are always people who think that - really just pick a war. I suppose even “The War of the Roses might even have been blamed on the U.S.”.
EU news is predicting a major announcement tomorrow (9/21) regarding Russian intentions towards annexing part of Ukraine---some type of referendum vote.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
It gets back to what I said on Feb 24 .......Sleepy Joe could have saved a lot of time by pushing the button on the day of the invasion......because that will be the end result.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
It gets back to what I said on Feb 24 .......Sleepy Joe could have saved a lot of time by pushing the button on the day of the invasion......because that will be the end result.
No one is gonna do anything that would mess up China's economy.
The 2,600 mile border China and Russia shares means no one will make any impulsive decisions that might restrict imports/exports.
In any event, it's likely there are no wires connected to any button Joey might be inclined to play with.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
Post #1 "I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe."

Just a guess but manufacturing in Germany is likely facing some real challenges.....​

Just reported 9/21/2022 (just a guess but Germany is giving up on cheap Russian energy?)

 

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
Post #1 "I keep hearing that this winter will be bad for manufacturing in Europe."

Just a guess but manufacturing in Germany is likely facing some real challenges.....​

Just reported 9/21/2022 (just a guess but Germany is giving up on cheap Russian energy?)

"nationalizing".....means you'll get MUCH better service now, just like at the DMV...:D

Because everyone knows, that the goobermint can run things much better than private industry.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
"nationalizing".....means you'll get MUCH better service now, just like at the DMV...:D

Because everyone knows, that the goobermint can run things much better than private industry.
Keeping with PMs---- 'Largest Manufacturing Technology Community on the Web'

Hopefully the U.S. which has plenty of energy, will attract work that other countries, like Germany, have become non-competitive due energy supply costs.

I'd like to hear that our leadership is willing for once to exploit an advantage the U.S. now appears to have.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
QT: standard parts (No one is gonna do anything that would mess up China's economy.)
Or change the way China runs It's own country
Or invade China.
Or stop China from taking Taiwan, but Taiwan may do a fine job of defending itself.

The USA trying to be the Say So about world policy may cost us much.

History can be a good teacher:
The leaflets often told civilians to evacuate, and sometimes encouraged them to push their leaders to surrender. In August 1945, leaflets were dropped on several Japanese cities (including, supposedly, Hiroshima and Nagasaki).
 

Ries

Diamond
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Location
Edison Washington USA
China is laughing all the way to the bank, based on the decisions by other countries of the world:



Natural gas? China is buying most of Putin's unsold gas, at fire-sale prices.



ToolCat
This one is a bit of a stretch. Current pipelines from Russia to China were running at capacity before the war. The new pipeline, the Power of Siberia, will be able to carry 1/6 to 1/4 of what they sold to Europe. And it wont be done for a couple of years. Theoretically, the chinese could buy more natural gas from Russia, but only after somebody spends a few billion on new pipelines, LNG plants, ports, and so on. At that point, maybe they could buy 1/2 of what the Russians were selling to Europe 2 years ago.
The russians have serious infrastructure issues before they could sell the gas they were selling to the Europeans, and in the interim some of those gas sites will get closed, and will cost a bunch to reopen.
Also, gas is market priced globally. Putin needs to sell as much as he possibly can at market rate. The only deal he can cut with Chinese is half roubles, half yuan. He wants dollars, bad, and he will sell his gas to anybody he can first.

Its much more complicated than you make it seem.

 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
This one is a bit of a stretch. Current pipelines from Russia to China were running at capacity before the war. The new pipeline, the Power of Siberia, will be able to carry 1/6 to 1/4 of what they sold to Europe. And it wont be done for a couple of years. Theoretically, the chinese could buy more natural gas from Russia, but only after somebody spends a few billion on new pipelines, LNG plants, ports, and so on. At that point, maybe they could buy 1/2 of what the Russians were selling to Europe 2 years ago.
The russians have serious infrastructure issues before they could sell the gas they were selling to the Europeans, and in the interim some of those gas sites will get closed, and will cost a bunch to reopen.
Also, gas is market priced globally. Putin needs to sell as much as he possibly can at market rate. The only deal he can cut with Chinese is half roubles, half yuan. He wants dollars, bad, and he will sell his gas to anybody he can first.

Its much more complicated than you make it seem.

So, if what cnctoolcat said:
"China is laughing all the way to the bank, based on the decisions by other countries of the world:"
So who's winning right now? China. Russia. The EU. The U.S. ?

Personally I think China...if not laughing...sure has a shit-eating-grin over the EU's energy shortage and what might possibly diminish their, mainly Germany, standing as a major manufacturing power.
The upside is the U.S. defense industry is in a real sweet spot for the foreseeable future.
Will be a winning Nation who makes stuff and snatches the business away from a losing Nation(s)
. I'm hoping the U.S. gets hard nose and grabs every bit of manufacturing market share that can be had. It's about time we mind our own business.
 
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Milling man

Aluminum
Joined
Aug 6, 2021
Location
Moscow, Russia
In this whole situation, there is a positive moment - “politicians” who skipped school and ordinary people will see that many industries simply will not survive in the world without fossil fuel. Or their products will cost a lot of money.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
In the dream world of the young greens ,that is the end desired.....Germany is in its current predicament not because of Russia....but because the german govt is about 1/3 greens .....and must follow greens policies .........which currently include tearing up all the Autobahns and replanting all but local road networks with forest........and also include 'zero' cars ,EVs included............the greens see EVs as an extension of the social evil of personal transport.
 

john.k

Diamond
Joined
Dec 21, 2012
Location
Brisbane Qld Australia
There is an assessment of Russian gas sales to China in a recent Blooomberg piece..........simply stated ,the Russians have no gas compression and liquefaction facilities,which limits sales to China severly.........and also means they can load up ships and sell on the world LNG market............This is what we have here in Queensland.........and the state govt is so shit scared of the multinationals they accept a bag of copper coins tossed ocassionally,while the gas giants are making $2 billion a week from Queensland gas..........Shells share is used to make the "white" green diesel that currently sells in Eurozone for a hefty premium over "fossil ' diesel.
 

michiganbuck

Diamond
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Location
Mt Clemens, Michigan 48035
I guess one good thing with getting the world blown up is, we won't have to worry about energy shortages, inflation, fuel gas prices or if T may end up in the dumpster, or be the next president.

Ops! forget that I said the letter T..The T and B letter should be avoided at all costs.

Re:Qt john K (Shells share is used to make the "white" green diesel that currently sells in Eurozone for a hefty premium over "fossil ' diesel.)
How much premium price?..and is it super clean?
 

Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
No one is gonna do anything that would mess up China's economy.
The 2,600 mile border China and Russia shares means no one will make any impulsive decisions that might restrict imports/exports.
In any event, it's likely there are no wires connected to any button Joey might be inclined to play with.
More importantly, there has been a major shift in global politics with the recent meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. Countries that attended included Russia, China, India, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Essentially Putin and Xi put the United States and NATO on notice that they will no longer tolerate aggression against member nations including Iran.

All this doom and gloom stuff about Putin and Russia? Don't bet the farm on it.
 

standardparts

Diamond
Joined
Mar 26, 2019
More importantly, there has been a major shift in global politics with the recent meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. Countries that attended included Russia, China, India, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Essentially Putin and Xi put the United States and NATO on notice that they will no longer tolerate aggression against member nations including Iran.

All this doom and gloom stuff about Putin and Russia? Don't bet the farm on it.
Well if someone nukes the U.S. I doubt it will be China---they depend too much on American consumers to keep their manufacturing base running. and the U.S. economy, especially California is too dependent on China to start blasting away with nukes.
. And Russia?---I'm guessing they interact a whole lot with China so "as goes China--so goes Russia" to some extent.
Maybe the big worry will be some renegade bad actor who wishes to pay back the U.S. for some past indiscretion so there is that. Some opine that maybe de-population by something like EMP devices or maybe another round of weird viruses--Who knows, it's way out of my pay grade. Conspiracy theories only matter if they actually happen--by that time for us mere peons it's too late.
Best is as long as commerce and making the big bucks rules supreme death and destruction will be somewhat planned by the those who want more...against those who have something other people want but have leaders who will sell out to the BIG BUCKS.

Main thing is...until the nukes start flying and bombs start dropping make chips and grab on to all the bucks you can! If you totally rely on government your absolutely going to be disappointed.
 

Hobby Shop

Hot Rolled
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Location
Michigan
More importantly, there has been a major shift in global politics with the recent meeting of the Shanghai Cooperation Organization. Countries that attended included Russia, China, India, Turkey, Iran, Pakistan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Essentially Putin and Xi put the United States and NATO on notice that they will no longer tolerate aggression against member nations including Iran.

All this doom and gloom stuff about Putin and Russia? Don't bet the farm on it.

The BRICS nations are trying like hell to unseat the USD as the worlds currency. It’s anybody’s guess if they’ll pull it off but if they do, our $25 trillion debt will make the USD worthless.
 

Scottl

Diamond
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Location
Eastern Massachusetts, USA
Well if someone nukes the U.S. I doubt it will be China---they depend too much on American consumers to keep their manufacturing base running. and the U.S. economy, especially California is too dependent on China to start blasting away with nukes.
. And Russia?---I'm guessing they interact a whole lot with China so "as goes China--so goes Russia" to some extent.
Maybe the big worry will be some renegade bad actor who wishes to pay back the U.S. for some past indiscretion so there is that. Some opine that maybe de-population by something like EMP devices or maybe another round of weird viruses--Who knows, it's way out of my pay grade. Conspiracy theories only matter if they actually happen--by that time for us mere peons it's too late.
Best is as long as commerce and making the big bucks rules supreme death and destruction will be somewhat planned by the those who want more...against those who have something other people want but have leaders who will sell out to the BIG BUCKS.

Main thing is...until the nukes start flying and bombs start dropping make chips and grab on to all the bucks you can! If you totally rely on government your absolutely going to be disappointed.
The issue isn't about someone dropping nukes on the USA. The issue is that the nations mentioned are large enough and powerful enough as a group to thwart any neocon projects, as Russia did in Syria.

They keep pushing the idea that they are "winning" in Ukraine despite massive evidence to the contrary. Other projects are also not going well.

And grabbing all the bucks you can won't mean much if the value of those bucks declines significantly.
 

Alhads

Plastic
Joined
Sep 16, 2022
Europe will have a difficult winter.
It's a tough lesson learned the hard way but hopefully it will force the people to actually think about their interests and be smarter in the future.
 








 
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